Thanagarian vs Egyptian: how do you like your Hawkfolk?

[Ra-El]

I prefer Venditti solution, the Hawks aren't egyptian or thanagarian, they are both and neither. Actually, Venditti gave us the possibility of a Carter and Katar team up, even if they are the same guy.

[PCN24454]

Wow, the poll's completely deadlocked.

[Psy-lock]

I like both Carter and Katar, but vastly prefer Shayera over the other Hawkwomen. So I guess I should go with Thanagarian? But honestly, I like the two versions almost equally. If I can't have them both separately then making them different reincarnations of the same people is the best solution for me (though I'm not a fan of Venditti's new origin story).

[Thirteen]

Geoff Johns had the damn near perfect solution by combining the Hawk mythos by having a Thanagarian vessel crash in ancient Egypt. The animated series JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED followed suit. It was a great amalgamation of the Hawks, Shazam and Dr Fate (and even John Stewart).


The one huge missing character: Shayera Thal of HAWKWORD. No offense to Kendra Saunders, who's amazing. They broke the mold when they made Shayera and her absence is significant.

[Hol]

Geoff Johns had the damn near perfect solution by combining the Hawk mythos by having a Thanagarian vessel crash in ancient Egypt. The animated series JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED followed suit. It was a great amalgamation of the Hawks, Shazam and Dr Fate (and even John Stewart).


The one huge missing character: Shayera Thal of HAWKWORD. No offense to Kendra Saunders, who's amazing. They broke the mold when they made Shayera and her absence is significant.

Agreed. When Johns touched up what Ostrander put together in Hawkworld it was perfect. There was really no need for a change. They finally streamlined is origin. It wasn't complicated anymore and the new New 52 came along.

[Ra-El]

[QUOTE=Thirteen;5090360]Geoff Johns had the damn near perfect solution by combining the Hawk mythos by having a Thanagarian vessel crash in ancient Egypt. The animated series JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED followed suit. It was a great amalgamation of the Hawks, Shazam and Dr Fate (and even John Stewart).

But not a great look for Hawkman. For years JLU made me thing he was the lamest character on DC, he only sucessiful thing about his characterization was how well they managed to portray a stalker in what was a kids cartoon.

[caj]

I miss the love and relationship between Katar and Shayera. It's been too long since we've seen them together as a team and a couple.

[DrNewGod]

I'm a bit surprised the poll is anything like this close. Of course, both those categories have a lot of subcategories swept up under them.

I wonder what it would look like had the poll broken them into Pre-Crisis Egyptian (in which reincarnation was generally ignored), Post-Crisis Egyptian, Cross-Space/Time Reincarnation, Pre-Hawkworld Thanagarian, and Post-Hawkworld Thanagarian?

[DrNewGod]

I miss the love and relationship between Katar and Shayera. It's been too long since we've seen them together as a team and a couple.

We most fundamentally agree. I've said it elsewhere, but will repeat: they were the only super-couple I can think of where she was never subordinated to make him look strong or smart.

[Lightning Rider]

No fence straddling? Unfair!

I went with Thanagar, but really that's not enough for me. Thanagar just makes the Hawks like any number of other aliens on earth. I love Thanagar and its history and mythology and all of that, it's a great resource, but "alien space cop" is too common a theme.

The reincarnated Egyptian royalty concept is far more unique in comics and lends itself well to a ton of great mythology and concepts that also folds in characters like Dr. Fate and Metamorpho without completely absorbing all their individual agency.....but you lose out on all the fantastic Thanagar stuff!

I voted for Thanagar and I played by your rules Bomma, but I really think at this point the Hawks benefit more from combining the two origins.

Totally agreed, though I went with Egyptian here because I find the history/reincarnation angle a little more interesting. Got lots of love for Hawkworld tho.

[bat39]

I love Venditti's take of 'merging' both versions by having them be reincarnations of each other. Frankly, it amazes me how it took so long for someone to come up with this simple fix to the problem!

That said, I kinda lean more towards the Thanagarian take, though I like the Ancient Egyptian angle. So my preference would always be to honor both in some way.

Incidentially, I have different preferences when it comes to the two of them. With Hawkgirl, I prefer the Thanagarian version, simply because I grew up watching the JLU cartoon with Shayera Hol. With Hawkman, I tend to lean more towards Carter Hall, the human archeologist who's lived countless lives.

If I were to do a Hawkman movie or TV show, or any kind of adaptation, here's how I'd handle it. Carter Hall is a human archeologist who's investigating myths of aliens in Ancient Egypt. During a dig, he discovers a crashed spaceship from Thanagar and activates the Absorbascon onboard, which gives him visions and knowledge of the planet Thanagar, as well as genetically modifies his body, giving him enhanced strength and endurance, and a healing factor, as well as the telepathic ability to communicate with birds. He uses the Thanagarian Nth metal, wings and a uniform onboard to become Hawkman. The main villain is Anton Hastor, a mastermind who believes that he's the reincarnation of an Ancient Egyptian named Hath-Seth and that Hawkman is the reincarnation of his old nemesis Prince Khufu - who encountered the Thanagarians who crashed on earth and possibly learnt their secrets and gained their powers and knowledge. Hastor plans to harness the Thanagarian tech from the ship to establish his own empire and rule the world.

Also, I'd introduce Kendra Saunders as a grad student who takes an interest in Carter's work and in whom he confides about his discoveries and the changes to his body. We eventually learn that 'Kendra' is in fact Shayera Hol, a Thanagarian deep-cover operative embedded on earth who was investigating legends of the ancient Thanagarian ship who crashed on earth - to ensure that the tech doesn't fall into the wrong hands. As a present-day Thanagarian, Shayera has 'natural' retractable wings due to genetic enhancements, unlike Carter who needs a harness and artificial wings. She joins him as Hawkgirl and together they take down Hastor. Their next mission - tackling the threat that originally brought Shayera on her mission to earth, a shapeshifting Thanagarian terrorist named Byth.

There would be a little ambiguity about Carter's origins and true nature. Is he the reincarnation of Prince Khufu, who somehow gained infinite lives due to harnessing Thanagarian tech? Is he just a descendant of ancient Thanagarians stranded on earth, with the Absorbascon unlocking his Thangarian DNA? Is he just a guy who stumbled on alien tech and was transformed by it? There would also be vague allusions to Shayera Hol's partner/husband who died...and hints that she knows more about who/what Carter is than she's letting on.

[Mr.B]

Next time they should try the alien version again but have him join the JSA first. Have the whole Egyptian thing a myth/coverup.

[John Venus]

I love Venditti's take of 'merging' both versions by having them be reincarnations of each other. Frankly, it amazes me how it took so long for someone to come up with this simple fix to the problem!

That said, I kinda lean more towards the Thanagarian take, though I like the Ancient Egyptian angle. So my preference would always be to honor both in some way.

Incidentially, I have different preferences when it comes to the two of them. With Hawkgirl, I prefer the Thanagarian version, simply because I grew up watching the JLU cartoon with Shayera Hol. With Hawkman, I tend to lean more towards Carter Hall, the human archeologist who's lived countless lives.

If I were to do a Hawkman movie or TV show, or any kind of adaptation, here's how I'd handle it. Carter Hall is a human archeologist who's investigating myths of aliens in Ancient Egypt. During a dig, he discovers a crashed spaceship from Thanagar and activates the Absorbascon onboard, which gives him visions and knowledge of the planet Thanagar, as well as genetically modifies his body, giving him enhanced strength and endurance, and a healing factor, as well as the telepathic ability to communicate with birds. He uses the Thanagarian Nth metal, wings and a uniform onboard to become Hawkman. The main villain is Anton Hastor, a mastermind who believes that he's the reincarnation of an Ancient Egyptian named Hath-Seth and that Hawkman is the reincarnation of his old nemesis Prince Khufu - who encountered the Thanagarians who crashed on earth and possibly learnt their secrets and gained their powers and knowledge. Hastor plans to harness the Thanagarian tech from the ship to establish his own empire and rule the world.

Also, I'd introduce Kendra Saunders as a grad student who takes an interest in Carter's work and in whom he confides about his discoveries and the changes to his body. We eventually learn that 'Kendra' is in fact Shayera Hol, a Thanagarian deep-cover operative embedded on earth who was investigating legends of the ancient Thanagarian ship who crashed on earth - to ensure that the tech doesn't fall into the wrong hands. As a present-day Thanagarian, Shayera has 'natural' retractable wings due to genetic enhancements, unlike Carter who needs a harness and artificial wings. She joins him as Hawkgirl and together they take down Hastor. Their next mission - tackling the threat that originally brought Shayera on her mission to earth, a shapeshifting Thanagarian terrorist named Byth.

There would be a little ambiguity about Carter's origins and true nature. Is he the reincarnation of Prince Khufu, who somehow gained infinite lives due to harnessing Thanagarian tech? Is he just a descendant of ancient Thanagarians stranded on earth, with the Absorbascon unlocking his Thangarian DNA? Is he just a guy who stumbled on alien tech and was transformed by it? There would also be vague allusions to Shayera Hol's partner/husband who died...and hints that she knows more about who/what Carter is than she's letting on.

While I like a lot of these ideas, my suggestions to this would be:

-Carter being either the real reincarnation of an ancient Thanagarian who landed in ancient Egypt or just an archaeologist whose mind and body was messed with through the Absorbascon is a strong enough layer of ambiguity that it could generate multiple stories surrounding free will vs destiny.

-Kendra and Shayera are both distinct enough that I think you can have them be Hawkgirl and Hawkwoman respectively.

[Thirteen]

[QUOTE=Ra-El;5090792]

Geoff Johns had the damn near perfect solution by combining the Hawk mythos by having a Thanagarian vessel crash in ancient Egypt. The animated series JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED followed suit. It was a great amalgamation of the Hawks, Shazam and Dr Fate (and even John Stewart).

But not a great look for Hawkman. For years JLU made me thing he was the lamest character on DC, he only sucessiful thing about his characterization was how well they managed to portray a stalker in what was a kids cartoon.

Until Hawkman was proven right. The stalker angle was a fakeout playing upon the sensibilities of the day.
It was the most unusual of circumstances, but what he was saying was true.

[Stanlos]

Thanagarian take was more interesting and less controversial. But I could take issue with of them with detachable bird wings that articulate for no reason. Same for Wondy's screaming chicken armour. It is a weird peeve for me. I think that more than anything made the whole Thanagarian military gear take more palatable for me.