Thanagarian vs Egyptian: how do you like your Hawkfolk?

[Sutekh]

Voted Thanagarian because JLU Shayera is Best Hawk.

Yeah, that was my feeling as well.

And yet, I'm of two minds about just about everything, and I like the Thanagarian origins for her, and the Egyptian reincarnation origins for him. And just doesn't work, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

[lemonpeace]

Voted Thanagarian because JLU Shayera is Best Hawk.

JL/JLU Shayera was the Latina space queen we didn't deserve

[j9ac9k]

JL/JLU Shayera was the Latina space queen we didn't deserve

How was Shayera a Thanagarian "Latina" space queen?

[Ra-El]

[QUOTE=Midnight_v;5110319]

Y'know even as a person who isn't in love with hawkman that was some of the worst character assassination ever...

If she met the real hawkman and fawned and fawned over him then got schooled as how a real thanagarian should be heroically in battle and then summarily rejected by him as an imposter/pretender, and have her sulk and obsess both romantically and for approval it would be the equivalent. The type of thing that I'd imagine would make a hawkfan vomit in their mouth a little bit when they saw it. Super unfun and unfair really.

Again I'm not big hawkman fan or anything but character integrity should be preserved and that was pretty much Didido on roy harper levels of crap they shat on hawkman.

I'm sure for somone coming into the dc through the cartoons he's always going to looked at with a side eye for the worst character decisions by a writer in his whole history

The only good thing about JLU Hawkman appearance is that it was short, I can't barely think of how bad it would be if the character have come back as anything more than a background cameo.

I was introduced to Hawkman by JLU, I grateful to Iron Studios and Ivan Reis for that Hawkman statue, that made me think: "This character can't be that lame if he can look this cool", and made me give Hawkman a chance.

[lemonpeace]

How was Shayera a Thanagarian "Latina" space queen?

I don't mean a literal "queen" but I always read her character as being more hispanic/latinx presenting (if the characters were live action in my head) as opposed to the typical "all aliens just happen to be white" trope, it was the voice for me. I guess i musta had an ear for accents as a kid or i must have recognized the voice somewhere because when i got older i learned her voice actress was actually latina (I think it she was cuban or dominican) so that just cemented the hispanic space badass image in my head. Hawkgirl was one of my favorite parts of JLU when I was younger so I just dig that added element of color.

[DrNewGod]

How was Shayera a Thanagarian "Latina" space queen?

I don't mean a literal "queen" but I always read her character as being more hispanic/latinx presenting (if the characters were live action in my head) as opposed to the typical "all aliens just happen to be white" trope, it was the voice for me. I guess i musta had an ear for accents as a kid or i must have recognized the voice somewhere because when i got older i learned her voice actress was actually latina (I think it she was cuban or dominican) so that just cemented the hispanic space badass image in my head. Hawkgirl was one of my favorite parts of JLU when I was younger so I just dig that added element of color.

...and she was kind of royal-ish in the Nu52 series. Until spoilers:

they killed her.

end of spoilers

[John Venus]

All the principle Thangarian characters on JLU were voiced by hispanic/latino actors, including Shayera. This was an intentional decision by Bruce Timm who wanted Hawkgirl to sound different from everyone else. The main exception was Joseph Gardner/Carter Hall who was voiced by James Remar.

I like your idea of throwing "reincarnated ancient Thanagarian" into the mix.

About the Kendra and Shayera thing - its interesting but I'm a bit vary of treating them as distinct entities while Carter/Katar are the same. Funnily enough, this has happened twice in the comics that I know of. First, Carter and Katar were merged into the Hawk God entity, while Shiera reincarnated into Kendra and Shayera survived on her own. And I think even in current continuity Kendra and Shayera are separate entities while Carter has been revealed as a reincarnation of Katar (or is it the other way round?)

How I fixed it in my take: a Thanagrian warrior named Taran Hol (renamed from 'Khufu' to avoid confusion with the RL Pharoh) crash lands into ancient Egypt during the 4th dynasty. He falls in love in Princess Chay-Ara. Then, plot stuff happens and they are reincarnated as Carter Hall and Shiera Sanders, not to fall in love and die over the millennia but to save the world from an evil threat. Carter/Shiera are distinct individuals with their own personalities and history that differs from Taran/Chay-Ara. Carter/Shiera are at first able to speak to their past lives in their head space (like how Aang speaks to Roku in Avatar) but then their spirits merge so it's Carter/Shiera in the drivers seat but they have all the memories, powers and fighting experience of their past selves.

At some point in the Golden Age, they meet Katar and Shayera's father's or grandfathers' but they (Carter and Shiera) don't realize it. Hence the naming similarities between the two Hawks. In the present day timeline, Katar and Shayera are the main Hawks, who crashed landed to earth while chasing a criminal (same as it was in the Silver and Bronze age) and they are training Kendra as the new Hawkgirl whilst Shayera is Hawkwoman.

I think that over the years, the Hawks have been mixed up so much that we forget what made them distinct. Carter was originally a blonde man and Shiera was a brunette with reddish highlights. That Shiera died in Zero Hour (or was merged I can't recall) and afterwards the Shiera we got looks more like Shayera but with the reincarnation origin. The Hawks are one of the few superheroes who look distinct outside of their costumes so I want that to come across in my take. Though I would keep Carter as a brunette but I would give Katar the swirly hair he had in stories like 'Shadow War of Hawkman' and 'Hawkworld'.

I also want to bring back some of the elements that have been lost over the years from Hawkman villain like Byth to Hawkman's father Paran Hol, Shayera's parents (Shayera Thal I and Andar Pul) and the class differences between Katar and Shayera.


[QUOTE=Midnight_v;5110319]

Y'know even as a person who isn't in love with hawkman that was some of the worst character assassination ever...

If she met the real hawkman and fawned and fawned over him then got schooled as how a real thanagarian should be heroically in battle and then summarily rejected by him as an imposter/pretender, and have her sulk and obsess both romantically and for approval it would be the equivalent. The type of thing that I'd imagine would make a hawkfan vomit in their mouth a little bit when they saw it. Super unfun and unfair really.

Again I'm not big hawkman fan or anything but character integrity should be preserved and that was pretty much Didido on roy harper levels of crap they shat on hawkman.

I'm sure for somone coming into the dc through the cartoons he's always going to looked at with a side eye for the worst character decisions by a writer in his whole history

This reads like a bunch of hyperbole to me. The show was one my introductions to Hawkman/Carter Hall and I liked him just fine there. Personality wise felt a cut above what was being done with him in the Geoff Johns Hawkman ongoing that I later read.
I went on to read Hawkman's appearances in JSA then the alien Hawk stuff like 'Shadow War of Hawkman', 'Hawkworld 1', the 'Hawkworld' ongoing and 'Legend of Hawkman'. So much for character assassination and loss of integrity. What they did with Carter was well within the purview of the character's history at the time. But different strokes for different folks I guess.

[lemonpeace]

All the principle Thangarian characters on JLU were voiced by hispanic/latino actors, including Shayera. This was an intentional decision by Bruce Timm who wanted Hawkgirl to sound different from everyone else. The main exception was Joseph Gardner/Carter Hall who was voiced by James Remar.

I didn't know this, that's actually pretty dope. I love the show even more now.

[Frontier]

Was Kendra always hispanic? I forget.

All the principle Thangarian characters on JLU were voiced by hispanic/latino actors, including Shayera. This was an intentional decision by Bruce Timm who wanted Hawkgirl to sound different from everyone else. The main exception was Joseph Gardner/Carter Hall who was voiced by James Remar.

Like how on Titans all the Tamaraneans are black.

[iron chimp]

Hawkworld was such a great book - thats the definitive version to me.

Proper heavy duty hard sci fi

[Robanker]

Was Kendra always hispanic? I forget.

Like how on Titans all the Tamaraneans are black.

They never really got into it. I think she was usually assumed to be half hispanic/white, but who knows? At least in the Hawk books, JLA and JSA, it didn't see play.

[Doctor Know]

Geoff Johns had the damn near perfect solution by combining the Hawk mythos by having a Thanagarian vessel crash in ancient Egypt. The animated series JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED followed suit. It was a great amalgamation of the Hawks, Shazam and Dr Fate (and even John Stewart).

^This is the one.
Modern day Hawkworld/Thanagarian police who go through a wormhole and end up stranded in Earth's past. Becoming apart of Earth's history. Crossover potential with Teth-Adam/Black Adam (ruler of ancient Khandaq) and Nabu (the first Doctor Fate).





By the time the Hawks get back to modern day (after centuries of reincarnation) they have the JLA and JSA adventures waiting for them. And extra-terrestrial enemies such as Strange Adam and the planet Rann, an expansionist Thanagarian empire, the Gordanians, and the Tamaranians under command of Blackfire to contend with.

[Midnight_v]

This reads like a bunch of hyperbole to me. The show was one my introductions to Hawkman/Carter Hall and I liked him just fine there. Personality wise felt a cut above what was being done with him in the Geoff Johns Hawkman ongoing that I later read.
I went on to read Hawkman's appearances in JSA then the alien Hawk stuff like 'Shadow War of Hawkman', 'Hawkworld 1', the 'Hawkworld' ongoing and 'Legend of Hawkman'. So much for character assassination and loss of integrity. What they did with Carter was well within the purview of the character's history at the time. But different strokes for different folks I guess.

Hard to really care how it reads to you, because its not, mostly because as I said I'm NOT the biggest hawkman fan, BUT I'm certain that people for whom HAWKMAN was their favorite did NOT flipping appreciate that.
It made him an obsessed stalker dude. Who in the end as mentioned above even when it looks like he was right all along... the writer threw it in that "It was the machine... none of that was real" because he didn't like reincarnation. I don't think thats fair to any great hero, more importantly, ESPECIALLY importantly.... people loved the hawkgirl from that show but I'm right if they did the opposite "Where she was the one obsessing" it would have been and ugly scene, no one wants their favorite played off as crazy or "lesser" and he certainly was.

Personality wise... well... Ok different strokes for different folks. I guess it depends what this guys supposed to be like to you.
Hawkman as I know him is the strong silent type almost one step away from being the punisher, and otherwise he's this "Lawman" archetype that people might not love but its relatable. Recently he's back to explorer/archaeologist... but if it comes to choosing between "Strong Silent Type", "Adventurer", and "We're destined to be together stalker" the arch of the first 2 is infinitely better.
Though now I'm curious. I'm gonna poke around and see what the reaction to that was in various spots online. Youtube, here, few other websites... but we did get this alread from

The only good thing about JLU Hawkman appearance is that it was short, I can't barely think of how bad it would be if the character have come back as anything more than a background cameo.

I was introduced to Hawkman by JLU, I grateful to Iron Studios and Ivan Reis for that Hawkman statue, that made me think: "This character can't be that lame if he can look this cool", and made me give Hawkman a chance.

HAHAHA I just watch the "Hating ass batman clip" from that show. I'd actually forgotten how bad he got salted on by her team. But..when he revealed himself as "Hawkman" and she just busts out laughing at him... yeah I'm sure that there was some serious poo-poo'ing on this character by the writers of that series. Hawkman didn't deserve that.

....After giving it a lot of thought and this is fairly irrelevant but I feel as though I really loved the kingdom come hawk-man, I never really looked into who he was or supposed to be I just took it at face value that he was Carter, or Kotor, but ...
he wasn't
Really interesting character this Hawkman.

[John Venus]

Was Kendra always hispanic? I forget.

It wasn't mentioned either way. Sometime after her introduction we got this:

In Hawkman Vol. 4, #1, Oliver Evans, the curator of The Stonechat Museum, says in regards to Kendra's mother:

"And Trina. Very beautiful Hispanic woman. And a fantastic painter."

I did some googling to find the answer and I found it in an old CBR thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...endra-Saunders

Like how on Titans all the Tamaraneans are black.

Or how all the Martians were black on Supergirl.

[kingaliencracker]

Hawkworld really introduced me to the Hawkverse, so I've always been partial to Thanagarian Hawkman.