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Thread: Layoffs at DC?

  1. #361
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    No one should call chess a sport
    Or golf...
    Well, I think it's neat they're including brainpower as a sport, but I'm not gonna argue the definition of sport ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    ...? The hell about such a cute book targeted for a different audience triggered that from them?
    That's just it... their favorite is losing sales and attention so they blame the conveniently visible perceived cause

    Kinda remind you of other things in America huh

  2. #362
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    Thanks for the kind words. In general, however, I'd say that my opinion about Black Label is more positive than yours, even if - as I said - I don't think that it was an entirely successful experiment.
    Black Label most assuredly published some good stuff. Last Knight on Earth was really ambitious and interesting, even if I think Snyder didn't manage to stick the landing. Harleen was excellent. I'm sure there were other good stuff published there that I haven't read.

    But compared to direction the rest of the DC went, Black Label was redundant. Didn't bring in new writers, didn't expand the themes or the storytelling compared to the rest of DC's regular line. There were some exceptions, but they were exceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    IMHO Black Label would have been a success if they had created a Vertigo-esque or Image-like approach to classic superheroes. Especially in terms of storytelling and complexity. What I hoped to see was something akin Gaiman's Black Orchid or DeMatteis' Moonshadow or Miller's Love and War. That's something we partially got - I am thinking of Sorrentino's Killer Smile - but from a certain moment on it became mostly the imprint of Batman books with some vague "explicit" elements.
    I believe Professor Thorgi (of Youtube) had a long rant about Black Label becoming Batman with extra Batman, rather early on as the imprint was created.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #363
    Incredible Member Jadeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I agree you want to keep your mature content separate from everything else, but you don't need a full imprint to do that. A imprint is preferable, but not necessary. If Black Label is dumped, there's no reason something like Last God couldn't continue, they'd just have to ensure something on the cover says "this is not a product for kids."

    It's no different than movies on blu-ray. Deadpool can sit next to Marvel's Iron Man on the Wal-Mart movie shelf. One of them has a "Mature" label on it, one doesn't. Problem solved. If parents ignore that warning? That's on them.
    If DC goes through with the big mainstream outreach/digital effort they’ve outlined, I wonder if they could make the make mature readers stuff exclusive to comic shops. That would drive traffic into the shops while fulfilling the desire to make the main line more family friendly.

  4. #364
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    My deepest condolences to those who have been let go. As a layman, I see working in the comics industry as one of the top 5 dream jobs ever, so I can only imagine what it must feel like to actually work in the field and face this outcome. Keep your spirits up. There was so much talent separated that in a different economy you could all start anew in a company of your own making and give Marvel and DC a run for their money. Maybe in a 6-10 months that may yet be the case. Hang in there.

  5. #365
    Extraordinary Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    They do realize THEY aren't the target audience, right?
    Plus dc had suger and spike and fox and the crow comics for along time. They also did rainbow brite and kissyfur in the 80s. Marvel had spider-ham, millie the modal, heathcliff and even care bears and strawberry shortcake.

    This is nothing new at all. Both had kids aimed comics. Spidey super stories and batman adventures for starters.

    As for kids and heroes comics--

    My nephews love marvel and dc heroes. They have batman and black panther backpacks, toys, games and watch the cartoons and movies and read kids books.

    I have a wall of graphic novels of marvel and dc.

    They won't read any of them. They do read big nate, dogman, garfield, uncle scrooge (thanks to the disney xd series), pokemon and the older ones are starting to read naruto, our hero academia, one piece and other manga!

    My nieces DOES read some marvel trades. Ms marvel, moon girl, wasp, and squirrel girl and marvels oz books and does read dc primer and older one read raven ya trade along with guts, lumberjanes, babysitters club comics, nancy drew comics and jeff smiths bone along with some manga like sailor moon and wolf children.

    Pretty much all of them reads some kind of comics. Most are not superheroes comics with my nieces reading heroes comics more then my nephews!

    Lois lane would be a book my nieces will love. may have to pick it up for them. Marvel had a mary jane comic aimed at younger girls years ago also.

  6. #366
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    They do realize THEY aren't the target audience, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'd guess it's the idea that if the company makes a product for other demographics, there will be less for them. It's stupid and flawed thinking; there's plenty to go around after all, but logic is a hurdle these people have learned to jump with ease. >shrug<
    Yeah. This thing is really common with companies of the established fanbase.

    In anime land, when Kyoto Animation who usually churns out anime series starring cute girls for years... meaning they've built up a steady audience of horny boys... suddenly advertised they're gonna make an anime starring shirtless swimming pretty boys, the backlash from their horny boy's crowds were massive, and the shouting was the same
    "nobody will buy this"
    "why waste time and energy on this make the usual instead"
    "I'm done"
    That didn't stop them, because they know, and proven right because guess what, shirtless swimming boys anime turned to be a huge hit among girls and gays.

    In anime those shouting is even more stupid because anime, in general, has a huge and varied audience, it's just that particular company has only been making cute girls anime that there's a fan backlash.

    Marvel was like that too right when they started more openly targeting girls? Ms. Marvel, Moon Girl, Jane Thor, etc... anything with an established fanbase, be it comics, games, D&D, when they try something not usual there's always someone shouting.

    Right now there's a protest over the use of Combat Wheelchair in D&D because somehow some fans don't understand that D&D with dragons and magic can also have a magic wheelchair.

    Sorry getting OOT, but I'm in the mood of ranting about stupidity. I'm done ^^
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 08-12-2020 at 01:22 PM.

  7. #367
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    It's still just video gaming, they're just doing it professionally for prize money. No different than television game shows. Nobody calls those sports.

    https://twitter.com/gerryconway/stat...26593997873152
    He's right, though DC and Marvel only being kept alive as IP farms for actual money makers (movies, video games, TV shows and merchandise) has arguably been the case for years. Look at how much of an influence the New 52 has had on DC's adaptations for the last decade or so, for better or for worse.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'm sure we will. We don't need an imprint specifically for mature books to have mature books at all.



    I'd guess it's the idea that if the company makes product for other demographics, there will be less for them. It's stupid and flawed thinking; there's plenty to go around after all, but logic is a hurdle these people have learned to jump with ease. >shrug<



    I agree you want to keep your mature content separate from everything else, but you don't need a full imprint to do that. A imprint is preferable, but not necessary. If Black Label is dumped, there's no reason something like Last God couldn't continue, they'd just have to ensure something on the cover says "this is not a product for kids."

    It's no different than movies on blu-ray. Deadpool can sit next to Marvel's Iron Man on the Wal-Mart movie shelf. One of them has a "Mature" label on it, one doesn't. Problem solved. If parents ignore that warning? That's on them.
    Well these days the DC logo = the universe.
    Anything with a different name = not the universe.
    I agree personally that last god could carry the dc logo - thats not even a mature book for me, thats just rock solid swords and sorcery that kids would enjoy. Dc has published some pretty tough things in past - last god isnt even in that ballpark.

    You cannot have superman and enigma and preacher on the same imprint. Heres superman , the personification of virtue but if you like superman yr a latent homosexual (enigma) or and by the way gods a piece of crap (preacher)

    People will take great offense at that (and rightly so imo)

  9. #369
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hero talk View Post
    I disagree they need to fix some of the awful work people did like what they did with superman and alfred reboot needs to happen
    and they need to get writers that will write things that aren't dark all the time someone like peter with supersons and superman
    and the redhood books were good before they went dark to
    Except the quality of lack thereof of the books is absolutely meaningless to the moneymen in charge. It's partly about the economic fallout of the pandemic and partly about the powers that be at AT&T using the time to really evaluate what they want from this tiny publishing division of their massive corporation. The direct market caters primarily to older fans who have been reading superhero comics since they were kids and that audience continues to shrink without much in the way of a new generation coming along to replace them. Kids, as it turns out, love comics as much as ever - just ask Raina Telgemeier - but they are not drawn to comic book stores and they (well, their parents really) are really, really not drawn to paying $5 for a 20 page comic. Especially not one where very little happens in them - which is apparently the case with every issue of Empyre so far.

    I love single issues and I love comic book stores but these have already become niche, specialty items and they are only going to become more so in the future. I don't think this is the end of comics stores or even (probably) the end of single issues but for the industry to continue it really does need to consider getting comics into grocery stores, book shops and online. And, regardless of the quality of specific titles, DC has genuinely been good at realizing this for a while now with their Walmart books and original graphic novels.

    I'm actually most worried about the woman who has been put in charge of DC (sorry, can't remember her name and am too lazy to look it up) has very little publishing experience and seems intent on turning DC's output into inoffensive, kiddie comics with all the artistic credibility of any other piece of merchandise that they put out. And hey, I'm all for catering to kids but DC was the home of the British Invasion and Vertigo too and I'm really worried that the latter will be sacrificed for the former by someone who doesn't understand that it can be both.
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  10. #370
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadeb View Post
    If DC goes through with the big mainstream outreach/digital effort they’ve outlined, I wonder if they could make the make mature readers stuff exclusive to comic shops. That would drive traffic into the shops while fulfilling the desire to make the main line more family friendly.
    I would hope they would realize this but I don't know if I have faith in the people in charge to do so. Especially with reports of the prudish reaction to "Bat Penis" and the resulting edicts to minimize profanity and nudity/ sex in anything even tangentially related to their superhero universe (violence is still AOK, of course), even in "mature readers" Black Label comics.

    Also, not only would more mature stories be good for the direct market, they have also played a gigantic role in graphic novels infiltrating the book store market with Vertigo leading the way virtually from its creation.
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  11. #371
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    I'm actually most worried about the woman who has been put in charge of DC (sorry, can't remember her name and am too lazy to look it up) has very little publishing experience and seems intent on turning DC's output into inoffensive, kiddie comics with all the artistic credibility of any other piece of merchandise that they put out. And hey, I'm all for catering to kids but DC was the home of the British Invasion and Vertigo too and I'm really worried that the latter will be sacrificed for the former by someone who doesn't understand that it can be both.
    It's not one woman, but two that seems to be taking over the role of publishers: Marie Javins and Michele Wells. And I believe you are doing both of them a disservice. Javins has 30 years of experience working with both Marvel and DC. Wells came from a more traditional book publishing, but she helped make DC Young into DC's most novel and creative line. Catwoman: Under the Moon, The Oracle Code, The Shadow of the Batgirl, and Raven were all far from "inoffensive", and I'd say they were more mature in their themes than most of DC's regular output.

    And Vertigo is long dead, and arguably had been dead for a long time before the shambling corpse was put out of its misery. I doubt Javins has much to do with those decisions, and Wells most definitely did not.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #372
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, many people's favorite years of comics were from when they were primarily still aimed at kids.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  13. #373
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    On the new manager of DC to be from e-sports, as reported by e.g. Bleeding Cool, a lot will depend on the actual person and on the role that the higher-ups at AT&T and WB envision for the person.

    Given that the new title seems to be "general manager" rather than editor it is possible that the main role of this new manager isn't creative, but to manage creators (in the widest possible sense). Since DC to me seems to have been rife with inter-office drama and cliques, having a person in charge with no beef in the various people and their ideas might be a very good thing.

    I don't think AT&T is here to dismantle or destroy DC (at least not by purpose). If they wanted to do so they could either just shutter the whole thing or sell it. What they are interested in is profitability, market shares, and maintaining the DC IPs. They aren't interested in inter-office drama, production delays, or very top-heavy organisations, all of which seems to have been rather prevalent in DC for a long time now.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    He's right, though DC and Marvel only being kept alive as IP farms for actual money makers (movies, video games, TV shows and merchandise) has arguably been the case for years. Look at how much of an influence the New 52 has had on DC's adaptations for the last decade or so, for better or for worse.
    It's really obvious when you look at how Disney treats Marvel. They've got a long leash and when new Disney products are done and new comic follows. Hence USAgent getting a new mini.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    On the new manager of DC to be from e-sports, as reported by e.g. Bleeding Cool, a lot will depend on the actual person and on the role that the higher-ups at AT&T and WB envision for the person.

    Given that the new title seems to be "general manager" rather than editor it is possible that the main role of this new manager isn't creative, but to manage creators (in the widest possible sense). Since DC to me seems to have been rife with inter-office drama and cliques, having a person in charge with no beef in the various people and their ideas might be a very good thing.

    I don't think AT&T is here to dismantle or destroy DC (at least not by purpose). If they wanted to do so they could either just shutter the whole thing or sell it. What they are interested in is profitability, market shares, and maintaining the DC IPs. They aren't interested in inter-office drama, production delays, or very top-heavy organisations, all of which seems to have been rather prevalent in DC for a long time now.
    I think its mainly going to be a marketing job. The E-sports thing is going to be used to try and get people who consume and produce content for things like twitch reading comics.

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