Layoffs at DC?

[skyvolt2000]

You cannot have superman and enigma and preacher on the same imprint. Heres superman , the personification of virtue but if you like superman yr a latent homosexual (enigma) or and by the way gods a piece of crap (preacher)
)

I can go to the MAIN library (Central one with the most traffic) downtown.

You go to the kids section where ALL the graphic novels are there. Guess who is there Superman, Sandman, Preacher, Wicked & Divine and Sex Criminals.
And the employees can't say they don't know what those books are about.

I've checked out Wicked N Divine & Morning Glories-all the staff LOVED those books.
Someone higher up doesn't know about book content and even told don't care.

Look at how much of an influence the New 52 has had on DC's adaptations for the last decade or so, for better or for worse.

I can top that look at the toys. Duke Thomas has never appeared outside of comics. He has figures as We Are Robin Duke and as Signal. No one has seen Wallace West in his comic version uniform. Icons Static is in his original outfit not the one we all know from the cartoon.

The ones that look like the tb versions are stuck in comic book stores while the comic ones are in Wal-Mart (except for Supergirl).

they'd just have to ensure something on the cover says "this is not a product for kids."

Wal Mart will not sell it. I can tell you that straight up.
They won't sell explicit cds. A books saying that won't sniff a shelf.

No they won't lock it up because Cancel Culture has thrown fits about stuff being locked up.
Online yes but you end up getting it from affiliates.

I'd guess it's the idea that if the company makes a product for other demographics, there will be less for them. It's stupid and flawed thinking; there's plenty to go around after all, but logic is a hurdle these people have learned to jump with ease. >shrug<

There is. But there is always THIS FEAR....... A fear we sort of saw here and at DC.

What was John Stewart doing before that cartoon? Who was in Justice League at the time that cartoon started? Kyle. After that cartoon how long did it take for Kyle to be gone?
Over Marvel-after Ike's antics-how many X-Men books got replaced by Inhuman books? How fast did that get UGLY?
What was the LIE passed around about Miles? He was going to replace Peter. At most how many books has Miles starred in at a given time? 3 (his, Champions & Ab Carnage Miles tie in).

[Username taken]

It's still just video gaming, they're just doing it professionally for prize money. No different than television game shows. Nobody calls those sports.

---

https://twitter.com/gerryconway/stat...26593997873152

Unfortunately, Conway is just saying what a lot of us have been saying for many years.

And I fully agree that Marvel will make some changes to their business model in the months/years to come. It’s just economics.

All this being said, the more common place mergers and acquisitions become the less and less choice consumers will have over time. Those sci-if movies that predicted a world dominated by big soulless corporations are becoming a reality.

[Lee Stone]

Unfortunately, Conway is just saying what a lot of us have been saying for many years.

And I fully agree that Marvel will make some changes to their business model in the months/years to come. It’s just economics.

All this being said, the more common place mergers and acquisitions become the less and less choice consumers will have over time. Those sci-if movies that predicted a world dominated by big soulless corporations are becoming a reality.

Of course, anyone can still put a pen to paper, draw a comic and post it online.
And if people like it, they'll keep doing it.
And maybe even get them published at a print on demand site.

If you think about how comic books started... they could always restart the same way again.

If comic books didn't exist today, they would eventually be created as physical collections of webcomics, likely first being issued as giveaways to boost traffic to Comics Kingdom or GoComics.

Meanwhile, you'd have people that want to create comics and can't get into the door at one of the comic strip publishers, so they make their own indie strip online.
Then someone else does.
Then someone else.
Then another... and another...

And then the popular ones hold kickstarters to make print copies or set up a print on demand service.

Comics will continue to exist as long as someone knows likes to draw and a writer wants to write.
Comics are most appealing to aspiring tv/movie writers because the drawn characters are easier to manage than actors, yet gives a lot of the same visual content.
More, really, when you factor in budget.

[Kevin Street]

Crap. This is bad, there's no way to spin it as a good thing.

But it's not an extinction event. If I'm understanding the article at Bleeding Cool correctly (After The Bloodbath – The Start Of A New Two-Year Plan For DC Comics?) this is the start of a refocus of corporate energy on less interesting parts of the business, but publishing to the direct market will still survive. There will still be DC comics.

That's what I'm taking from this right now.

[NaVi]

Apart from the layoffs that are a tragedy for obvious reasons, I don't see what the problem is. DC has the most famous and iconic characters and teams by far, but marvel has been beating them for 20 years, it is clear that in DC many were not doing their job or simply were not up to the task. I hope that all this means that the batteries are put, and that hopefully at least for a while (until they can organize) that everyone continues to share the universe, but that their stories do not cross.

[iron chimp]

It's not one woman, but two that seems to be taking over the role of publishers: Marie Javins and Michele Wells. And I believe you are doing both of them a disservice. Javins has 30 years of experience working with both Marvel and DC. Wells came from a more traditional book publishing, but she helped make DC Young into DC's most novel and creative line. Catwoman: Under the Moon, The Oracle Code, The Shadow of the Batgirl, and Raven were all far from "inoffensive", and I'd say they were more mature in their themes than most of DC's regular output.

And Vertigo is long dead, and arguably had been dead for a long time before the shambling corpse was put out of its misery. I doubt Javins has much to do with those decisions, and Wells most definitely did not.

Vertigo isnt dead at all. Watchmen still their biggest selling trade 35 years later, doom patrol tv show has a lot of morrison scripts/ideas from synopses ive seen, preachers just been a tv series etc etc. Swampthing, Sandman v for vendetta never out of print. Theyve made more money out of those that the corresponding issues of 99% of their universe characters because the books have been in print constantly for 30 years.

Dcs best selling writer in last 50 years - rebranded vertigo, dcs biggest writers today snyder and king - both vertigo

The publishing arm died because they ran it into the ground. Who on earth lets brian k vaughan, brian wood, and ed brubaker walk out the door - pathetic a&r. Oh and well done on cancelling the boys... just the 75 issues over 10 best selling trades and a tv show. Completely mismanaged

[The Darknight Detective]

but marvel has been beating them for 20 years

More like a little over 50 years.

[iron chimp]

I can go to the MAIN library (Central one with the most traffic) downtown.

You go to the kids section where ALL the graphic novels are there. Guess who is there Superman, Sandman, Preacher, Wicked & Divine and Sex Criminals.
And the employees can't say they don't know what those books are about.

I've checked out Wicked N Divine & Morning Glories-all the staff LOVED those books.
Someone higher up doesn't know about book content and even told don't care.



I can top that look at the toys. Duke Thomas has never appeared outside of comics. He has figures as We Are Robin Duke and as Signal. No one has seen Wallace West in his comic version uniform. Icons Static is in his original outfit not the one we all know from the cartoon.

The ones that look like the tb versions are stuck in comic book stores while the comic ones are in Wal-Mart (except for Supergirl).



Wal Mart will not sell it. I can tell you that straight up.
They won't sell explicit cds. A books saying that won't sniff a shelf.

No they won't lock it up because Cancel Culture has thrown fits about stuff being locked up.
Online yes but you end up getting it from affiliates.



There is. But there is always THIS FEAR....... A fear we sort of saw here and at DC.

What was John Stewart doing before that cartoon? Who was in Justice League at the time that cartoon started? Kyle. After that cartoon how long did it take for Kyle to be gone?
Over Marvel-after Ike's antics-how many X-Men books got replaced by Inhuman books? How fast did that get UGLY?
What was the LIE passed around about Miles? He was going to replace Peter. At most how many books has Miles starred in at a given time? 3 (his, Champions & Ab Carnage Miles tie in).

Yes libraries couldnt care less. Same here in the uk. The good and the worthy took their shot at the bookshops and libraries and lost in court repeatedly. Its just a shame its still possible to mobilise non comics readers to get books pulled at the comics publishers. Penguin or faber and faber would just tell them to get lost but comics... pretty spineless

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

And in all honesty about the lay-offs, is anyone really surprised?

DC has been alienating long-term fans for years and a lot of people have taken their money elsewhere, myself included. Sales have been dropping for years!

For the majority of their so-called new characters, I don't give a toss about them. While I'm impartial to the "new" Dr Fate (Khalid Nassour), I won't be dropping a cent onto that character unless it's Kent Nelson behind the helm. You don't see Stephen Strange's long-lost nephew rocking up to put his duds.

Nor will I purchase a "new" JSA that mirrors the Stargirl TV series... once again, I don't care about these characters.

It's about tradition not legacy and until DC cater for my tastes, bye-bye!

[cranger]

And in all honesty about the lay-offs, is anyone really surprised?

DC has been alienating long-term fans for years and a lot of people have taken their money elsewhere, myself included. Sales have been dropping for years!

For the majority of their so-called new characters, I don't give a toss about them. While I'm impartial to the "new" Dr Fate (Khalid Nassour), I won't be dropping a cent onto that character unless it's Kent Nelson behind the helm. You don't see Stephen Strange's long-lost nephew rocking up to put his duds.

Nor will I purchase a "new" JSA that mirrors the Stargirl TV series... once again, I don't care about these characters.

It's about tradition not legacy and until DC cater for my tastes, bye-bye!

I would gladly live with a comic market that dwarfed the market I grew up with even if it meant none of the characters I cherished were written for me. The notion that the industry is too fixated on how to squeeze more money out of me before I die is baffling, except I guess for the fact that the people making these decisions are just worried about keeping their jobs long enough to retire before I do.

The tradition should be about creativity and moving forward. I can be pretty sure that DC will never write a Dr Fate book that lives up to whatever your peak period is anyway.

[Samm]

And in all honesty about the lay-offs, is anyone really surprised?

DC has been alienating long-term fans for years and a lot of people have taken their money elsewhere, myself included. Sales have been dropping for years!

For the majority of their so-called new characters, I don't give a toss about them. While I'm impartial to the "new" Dr Fate (Khalid Nassour), I won't be dropping a cent onto that character unless it's Kent Nelson behind the helm. You don't see Stephen Strange's long-lost nephew rocking up to put his duds.

Nor will I purchase a "new" JSA that mirrors the Stargirl TV series... once again, I don't care about these characters.

It's about tradition not legacy and until DC cater for my tastes, bye-bye!

I think they’ve done the absolute opposite. They’ve (just like the rest of the industry) have catered to long time fans for far too long, to the point of not being able to attract new ones, or when they do fans such as yourself chase them off with the whole (your version sucks, my version is better crap). They’ve tried to course correct by introducing new heroes (more diverse), new more relatable stories too but the damage was already done. Only so long you can cater to the same group of fans before time catches up on you. healthy industry/business has a youthful audience, and it’s crystal clear comics/direct market hasn’t been healthy since the long term fans aged out of being considered youthful.

They’d be smart to capitalize on the Stargirl shows success by giving that team a book, just market it outside comic shops (digital and trade) and it’ll be successful

[Ascended]

Well these days the DC logo = the universe.
Anything with a different name = not the universe.

As Skyvolt pointed out, all those trades are lumped together in bookstores already. My Books A Million store has Preacher sitting right next to Williamson's Flash.

You're right that you need *something* to distinguish between types of books, that just helps consumers find the kind of thing they're looking for and avoid the stuff they don't want. Imprints are a great way to do that, but they're not the *only* way to do it, and with the company streamlining and downsizing, it feels like a unnecessary step. As long as there's *something* on the cover that says "This is not for kids" they'll be fine.

It's really obvious when you look at how Disney treats Marvel. They've got a long leash and when new Disney products are done and new comic follows. Hence USAgent getting a new mini.

I feel like the big difference is that Marvel was a fairly well run company (not without problems of course) and so is Disney. AT&T however, seem to be nearly as inept as DC. When things run well, you can give your subsidiary companies a long leash....but things aren't running well for anyone in this situation.

I do hope however, that we get a new influx of creativity and less emphasis on the shared continuity out of all this. AT&T wants material they can adapt, and reportedly encouraged 5G because they saw potential in adapting it. So hopefully we'll get less "paint by number" stories where Superman fights Metallo, and more stories like Superman Smashes the Klan. Smash could easily be a Pixar style animated cartoon and make good money, but the typical in-continuity story? Not so much.

[king81992]

And in all honesty about the lay-offs, is anyone really surprised?

DC has been alienating long-term fans for years and a lot of people have taken their money elsewhere, myself included. Sales have been dropping for years!

For the majority of their so-called new characters, I don't give a toss about them. While I'm impartial to the "new" Dr Fate (Khalid Nassour), I won't be dropping a cent onto that character unless it's Kent Nelson behind the helm. You don't see Stephen Strange's long-lost nephew rocking up to put his duds.

Nor will I purchase a "new" JSA that mirrors the Stargirl TV series... once again, I don't care about these characters.

It's about tradition not legacy and until DC cater for my tastes, bye-bye!

DC catered to much to 'long-term fans' and that stagnated their brand.

[Holt]

People mad about JSA legacy characters are about 30 years too late.

[iron chimp]

As Skyvolt pointed out, all those trades are lumped together in bookstores already. My Books A Million store has Preacher sitting right next to Williamson's Flash.

You're right that you need *something* to distinguish between types of books, that just helps consumers find the kind of thing they're looking for and avoid the stuff they don't want. Imprints are a great way to do that, but they're not the *only* way to do it, and with the company streamlining and downsizing, it feels like a unnecessary step. As long as there's *something* on the cover that says "This is not for kids" they'll be fine.



I feel like the big difference is that Marvel was a fairly well run company (not without problems of course) and so is Disney. AT&T however, seem to be nearly as inept as DC. When things run well, you can give your subsidiary companies a long leash....but things aren't running well for anyone in this situation.

I do hope however, that we get a new influx of creativity and less emphasis on the shared continuity out of all this. AT&T wants material they can adapt, and reportedly encouraged 5G because they saw potential in adapting it. So hopefully we'll get less "paint by number" stories where Superman fights Metallo, and more stories like Superman Smashes the Klan. Smash could easily be a Pixar style animated cartoon and make good money, but the typical in-continuity story? Not so much.

There is no DC logo anywhere on new editions of preacher - not even the words DC on blurb on the back from new printings of trades im looking at online.

They literally went to pastors and theologians to try and market one of the recent superman films to church congregations. You cant have DC logo anywhere near Preacher if youre doing that. (And thats a very rotten trick to play on christians too pretending yr values match theirs while sneaking out preacher trades without yr logo on)

Imprints are the only way to do it otherwise it ends up in some variant of this - i buy superman for my kid and trust dc as a family orientated company so when i bought him a birthday present i made sure to buy him a comic with the dc logo out it as a brand i can trust. What i got was a woman having sex with a tree and a comic full.of marijuana and drugs. Every. Time. Thats the whole reason they had to section of part of their output in 80s /90s in the first place with the mature banner and then the vertigo label.

Its academic anyway because it will be a hell of a long time before they publish anything like that again. They'll just keep bleeding their back catalogue dry in absolutes, remasters, etc but be too gutless to try anything confrontational ever again for fear of offending.