Layoffs at DC?

[Konja7]

One thing folks have to understand just because the direct market hates certain characters. Does not mean everyone else does.

Who was looking for a story with Squirrel Girl? Yet she got a New York Times selling book.

DC has to be willing to hear those pitches. Dc has to be willing to look at ALL writers not just certain ones.

DC has to be willing to look at the market (BEYOND Batman) and understand what needs to be done.

Because there are markets out there for ANYONE to take full control of. The book market for black boys for example is WIDE open. This is not me saying it but folks in the industry telling me this. Even schools are screaming for it. DC could OWN it before Marvel does.

I know the book market could be pretty big.

However, I really doubt DC will have interest to use characters like Tim or Stephanie in OGNs. After all, they could use characters like Dick or Barbara who are more recognizable (and they could adapt these characters to fit any story).

Cassandra has more opportunities in OGNs, because her background is more unique. Not to mentions that she offers representation (that was likely the main reason why she has Shadow of Batgirl, since the writer has total freedom to change her background).

[Konja7]

Depending on how this shakes out, we may have to stop thinking of this from within the current comics bubble. Basically, it looks like the preferences of the comic shop die-hards are being de-prioritized. Under this new corporate template, the focus seems to be on expanding the reach of the characters regardless of the media format. If Tim sells YA OGNs, or more video downloads, or more something, we'll get more Tim. If not, we won't. But his convoluted history in the comic-shop offerings won't matter nearly as much. "But but but he isn't needed anymore" isn't much of an argument compared with "Does he make money?"

So, yeah, this could be terrible for DC's secondary and tertiary characters. Or it might not be. Most likely, I think, is that it will be very bad for some (most) and very good for others, and in unpredictable ways.

As you say, the comic shop die-hards are being de-prioritized. However, I don't think this is so good for Tim.

Tim isn't so recognizable in other media (and he doesn't offer diversity either). So, DC may find more convenient to use Dick or Damian for OGNs.

They wouldn't have a limit now. For example: They could use Dick in two different OGNs and the character could have a pretty different background in both.

[pageturner]

DC's not willing.



Marvel has Miles Morales and Black Panther. DC would have to progress leaps and bounds to own it before Marvel.

DC has Jon Stewart, Wally West 2, Duke Thomas Mr. Terrific and Static to name a few. They don't need to start from scratch. They just need to create a product the market wants. Right now neither is meeting that group.

[HsssH]

Actually, expanding the digital offerings and continued investment in the OGN's potentially opens up DC's lesser known characters more. We've seen characters like Raven (the go-to example) sell well in those formats, but Raven can't carry a direct market title to save her life.

I was thinking about something similar some time ago while looking at my DCYou Batgirl, Gotham Academy and Rebirth Super Sons trades. I thought that all three had great opening arcs and after that things started stumbling and eventually things became mediocre at best. So I came to a conclusion that I probably would have liked them more if they were much shorter and more focused. Like take two Super Sons volumes, I think entire story could have been condensed into 12 issues (or, lets say 2 OGNs) rather than 28 or so issues that we got.

And then wait few months or a year before someone else comes up with a good idea for a sequel.

[HandofPrometheus]

DC has Jon Stewart, Wally West 2, Duke Thomas Mr. Terrific and Static to name a few. They don't need to start from scratch. They just need to create a product the market wants. Right now neither is meeting that group.

This. Static, Vixen and John Stewart are still on people's minds years after their animated debuts. DC doesn't have to dig deep to battle Marvel, they just have to be willing to as Skyvolt said. Just give them the right material with no half-assed efforts.

[Anthony W]

Harras has the editor-in-chief at DC for the past ten years. His recent track record doesn't suggest we'd get much quality out of him. Any talent he had at his job in the past is long gone now.

His "recent" track record was working under Didio. Didio was only recently given the boot.

[Jadeb]

I know the book market could be pretty big.

However, I really doubt DC will have interest to use characters like Tim or Stephanie in OGNs. After all, they could use characters like Dick or Barbara who are more recognizable (and they could adapt these characters to fit any story).

Cassandra has more opportunities in OGNs, because her background is more unique. Not to mentions that she offers representation (that was likely the main reason why she has Shadow of Batgirl, since the writer has total freedom to change her background).

Yeah, I don't mean to suggest this is a great day for Tim, necessarily. I'm just using him as an example. But it wasn't long ago that it would have seemed ridiculous to suggest there could be a TV show with Stargirl and the Justice Society. The success of that sort of endeavor will matter more going forward, I suspect, than the whims of DC's comic editors.

That said, I think the time is right for characters with Tim's old sensitivity. The comics haven't care about that in ages, but the right audience might.

[Username taken]

His "recent" track record was working under Didio. Didio was only recently given the boot.

I would argue that Marvel comics are significantly better now than when Harras was EIC.

I mean significantly better. Between Hickman, Ewing Spencer and Cates, Marvel is absolutely killing it right now.

[Anthony W]

I would argue that Marvel comics are significantly better now than when Harras was EIC.

I mean significantly better. Between Hickman, Ewing Spencer and Cates, Marvel is absolutely killing it right now.

The X-Line had to be brought back to prominence. The Hulk had to be brought back to prominence. One more day didn't happen on Harras' watch. Cates is going symbiote crazy.

[Frontier]

Depending on how this shakes out, we may have to stop thinking of this from within the current comics bubble. Basically, it looks like the preferences of the comic shop die-hards are being de-prioritized. Under this new corporate template, the focus seems to be on expanding the reach of the characters regardless of the media format. If Tim sells YA OGNs, or more video downloads, or more something, we'll get more Tim. If not, we won't. But his convoluted history in the comic-shop offerings won't matter nearly as much. "But but but he isn't needed anymore" isn't much of an argument compared with "Does he make money?"

So, yeah, this could be terrible for DC's secondary and tertiary characters. Or it might not be. Most likely, I think, is that it will be very bad for some (most) and very good for others, and in unpredictable ways.

My problem is that I feel die-hards are more invested and care more for Tim than general audiences do, or even DC editorial. And that continuity is part of what made Tim as compelling a character as he is.

I would argue that Marvel comics are significantly better now than when Harras was EIC.

I mean significantly better. Between Hickman, Ewing Spencer and Cates, Marvel is absolutely killing it right now.

All writing ongoing's and not standalone GN's (which isn't me knocking GN's, just saying...)

[Agent Z]

The X-Line had to be brought back to prominence. The Hulk had to be brought back to prominence. One more day didn't happen on Harras' watch. Cates is going symbiote crazy.

Yeah and all of these problems were fixed or will be fixed eventually (assuming they are problems at all). Marvel does not need Harras and as much as we want to scapegoat Didio for everything, he has to accept some of the blame for what happened at DC as well.

[Digifiend]

I don't forsee an event like COIE. I can envision a Crisis of Infinite Forgetfulness.

What do I mean?

I can see Batman reduced to:

Alfred
Gordon
Batman -Bruce
Batgirl - Barbara
Robin - Damian
Batwoman (she has a show.)
Nightwing (cause it's Grayson.)
Red Hood (maybe)

Kate's not safe, because she's not even the star of the TV show any more.

Well, there's probably not much for Bendis to do if they're really scaling back on the mainline comics.

If Wonder Comics and Legion go and he's taken off Superman, yeah...

[Maestro 216]

Not suprised by this like at all. I have talked about it months ago when I shared a link of AT&T laying off thousands of their staff that this is going to affect DC eventually.

World economy was already not doing good for years now and the pendaminc has speed up the process.

Plus Covid has made things worse.

[Ascended]

Depending on how this shakes out, we may have to stop thinking of this from within the current comics bubble. Basically, it looks like the preferences of the comic shop die-hards are being de-prioritized. Under this new corporate template, the focus seems to be on expanding the reach of the characters regardless of the media format.

I suspect you are entirely right. At the very least, we need to stop thinking about the direct market as the primary source of revenue and top priority for DC. Hell, last year trades outsold floppies, and plenty of characters have been finding success in other media for years. This shift has already started, now we just have to accept the reality. And I think it'll be good for a lot of characters who can't get a foothold in the LCS....as long as DC keeps pumping out those OGN's and digital books.

I was thinking about something similar some time ago while looking at my DCYou Batgirl, Gotham Academy and Rebirth Super Sons trades. I thought that all three had great opening arcs and after that things started stumbling and eventually things became mediocre at best.

I am hoping to see a "seasonal" approach for at least some of the OGN's and digitals. Odds are Naomi won't return to the hobby shops for season 2 (super sad) but it won't hurt my feelings at all if we get season 2 straight to trade format.

[iron chimp]

To a certain point it has just not at this level.
Also you have to ask how many full time Marvel staff do they have in all?

Along with what other job duties do they have at Disney. I saw the job duties for an assistant editor.
They were doing the jobs of at LEAST 4 folks. Including editing multiple books and in some case writing a book.

And how many writers are doing tv and movies at Disney?




To me it smells of "we are going to eventually leave the direct market and set up show at Wal-Mart."

If Wal-Mart lets them return any unsold floppies-all bets are OFF. They are gone.

AllegianceArts & Entertainment has their books in the book section (mainly in the kids section at the stores I have been to) and they sell. So far it seems like they take the old ones and put the new issue out monthly.

And the question I would ask of all-would you leave the direct market???

If it means the likes of Adam Strange, Wonder Twins, Doom Patrol and others can get LEGIT shots without a bias market in the way? And I don't mean 50 floppies but a mixture of trades, digest, OGN and floppies?

Because the MAIN complaint I hear from PARENTS is they would buy the stuff if they saw it or know about it. Because not everyone shops online.

You cannot publish whatever you like in a supermarket. This is the whole reason for a direct market in the first place - because the spinner rack is censored by 'concerned parents'. You can do whatever you like in the direct market - you cannot when work is exposed to general populus.

Doom patrol only exists today because of grant morrisons run. No.one cares about pollock arcudi byrne or giffen. Its that run or that franchise was dead. But his run had a mature banner on the front - you cannot have mature comics in a supermarket.

A huge chunk of DCs biggest selling and/or most critucally acclaimed comics over last 40 years have been branded mature. Those cannot be sold in a supermarket