Layoffs at DC?

[dornwolf]

I had to look the crap up.

All about video games and merchandise. 1.9 billion revenue in 2018.

At worst you get a DC Online with everybody in it. Not sure how that helps books now.

It makes sense in a way though. The twitch stream viewing crowd should cross over with comicbook reading crowd. It's not hard to look at those views or even the sales of the Batman Arkham games and wonder why doesn't it extend to the comics side.

[scary harpy]

Having read the article, I don't like what I'm hearing. It sounds like this Lifford doesn't like books aimed at adults and is wanting to turn DC into a merchandising house. ... It's good to aim at a younger demographic. But DC has had a "mature readers" division for 30 years. Now they're just phasing it out?

After decades of grimdark, I find this to be welcome news.

If this begins a new era of Superfriends, then I will accept the new direction.

I'm not fond of Superfriends...I'm just tired of DC comics feeling like a playground built on a graveyard.

[Mark Trail]

At this point, more people know Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and TV/movie character than comic book characters. I don't see the comics line holding on for much longer. You'll get graphic novels now and then and the occasional comic book created by a licensed publisher but don't expect a monthly magazine .

[superduperman]

After decades of grimdark, I find this to be welcome news.

If this begins a new era of Superfriends, then I will accept the new direction.

I'm not fond of Superfriends...I'm just tired of DC comics feeling like a playground built on a graveyard.

I don't necessarily think the main books should be all like Batman Damned but it would be nice to have an imprint for that stuff. To be fair, I think they used the Black Label imprint too casually. All Star Superman? Really? You think that belongs there?

[cranger]

I don't necessarily think the main books should be all like Batman Damned but it would be nice to have an imprint for that stuff. To be fair, I think they used the Black Label imprint too casually. All Star Superman? Really? You think that belongs there?

If Black Label is gone, I lean towards it being seen as bloat that ends up needing to justify itself rather than an opposition to any sort of mature stories. While I only read Batman Damned, Superman Year One and Harleen, only the latter really seemed to push any boundaries of what could be done in a standard DC comic. It is just another layer that makes the DC catalog confusing, it is not like Joe Hill's imprint needs to be in another imprint. Personally I thought it seemed like a cool approach, but I am wary of putting too much worry into this kind of thing based on rumors that have been going on for a long time trying to be made relevant any chance they get.

[Mark Trail]

I wonder if they'll want to turn Action back into an anthology book with all the culling. Normally I'm not a fan of this idea. I've maintained the position for decades that its Superman's book. But with lots of characters no longer having a home, maybe its time to not be stubborn. They could do the same to Detective as well.

The only real "value" that "Action" and "Detective" had was a tradition and history, the idea of being the longest running comic book titles.

At this point, however, DC has rebooted and renumbered "Action" and "Detective" so many times at this point I doubt they (and by extension) WB see much value in that aspect. Sure, they limped to the 80th anniversaries in order to market a few collectable issues, but most of the time they're chasing sales with a new number one and/or a new title. I suspect you'll see graphic novels entitled in much the same way that paperback novels (ex: the Executioner, Doc Savage) were and the graphic novels currently are: "Superman: Red Son," "Batman: the Killing Joke," etc.

[Vakanai]

The Beat: DC’s new “eSports” publisher, Pam Lifford’s plans and more fallout from Bloodbath Monday

Damn it. Mature books really just can't exist alongside the YA stuff? Harleen was gold.

[Vakanai]

Double post, delete please.

[cranger]

The only real "value" that "Action" and "Detective" had was a tradition and history, the idea of being the longest running comic book titles.

At this point, however, DC has rebooted and renumbered "Action" and "Detective" so many times at this point I doubt they (and by extension) WB see much value in that aspect. Sure, they limped to the 80th anniversaries in order to market a few collectable issues, but most of the time they're chasing sales with a new number one and/or a new title. I suspect you'll see graphic novels entitled in much the same way that paperback novels (ex: the Executioner, Doc Savage) were and the graphic novels currently are: "Superman: Red Son," "Batman: the Killing Joke," etc.

They got rebooted with New 52 and then reset the numbering with Rebirth. Relatively speaking, that is as close as you get to not having ever rebooted at all.

[qwertyuiop1998]

DC Direct Shut Down in Massive Lay Offs at Warner Bros: https://news.toyark.com/2020/08/10/d...er-bros-398330

[Ascended]

Here is Hibb's bookscan article for 2019 sales: https://www.comicsbeat.com/bookscan-2019-analysis/

That was a good read, thanks.

Okay, I don't think DC's overall rankings here are as bad as you're making them sound. Yeah, they're clearly outclassed by the companies who's primary purpose is to sell books in this market. DC isn't built to compete with Scholasic or Viz. For DC trades have historically been little more than a side gig so the differences are, of course, going to be large. But the fact that DC is actually competing at all, and is out performing the other comic book publishers tells us that DC not only has the potential to become a real player, but is a bit ahead of the curve compared to their four color peers.

Yes, Watchmen is their big winner and without it DC wouldn't look nearly so good. Lucky for them, they *do* have Watchmen. And this isn't a unique problem, Image is far worse off when Walking Dead ends. And it seems like Marvel isn't really even playing the game. Dark Horse does look surprisingly strong, but generally seems to be locked behind DC.

DC has some huge loses in a few years, but also massive gains in others and it's position relative to the big 5 book publishers is in flux, but they have more positive gains per year than they drop. Yeah, 2018 wasn't a good year, and depending on which facet you look at 2019 wasn't either. But overall 2019 is a year of recovery and the bottom line is increasing, which is ultimately the only thing that matters.

DC doesn't have perfect performance here by any stretch but I'm not seeing a market that's beyond them. They've accomplished what they have while treating trades as a secondary product line; some smart investment and honest effort could easily carve them out a respectable chunk of the market share, if DC's even interested in doing that.

Odds are good that they did their research, you are seemingly reacting to an opinion of an opinion of a opinion of a rumor after all. That is, I trust them to be operating on facts more than I trust this forum, Twitter, or that place it all seems to stem from.

Oh, that was supposed to sound intentionally hyperbolic. Sorry, stupid text not conveying intent. Yes, I'm sure they've done research into what they're doing.

[Holt]

DC Direct Shut Down in Massive Lay Offs at Warner Bros: https://news.toyark.com/2020/08/10/d...er-bros-398330

Somewhere, Todd McFarlane just did a fist pump.

[Korath]

I mean in the terms of structure, story, hot women, less politics and social stuff reflecting USA.

You should read more manga if you think that's all there is to those...

[Agent Z]

I mean in the terms of structure, story, hot women, less politics and social stuff reflecting USA.

You mean what comics had been doing for decades while they were still circling the drain?

[Badou]

There will still be mature stories. I don't think people need to worry about them going away even if the Black Label line is being retired. Books like White Knight, Batman Damned, Harleen, and other stories that are "mature" tend to be creator driven anyway. That isn't going away because the bigger creators will still be able to get stories like that published since they can move copies. Sure, they will probably keep being mostly about Batman related characters like they have been because they are the ones that sell, but I don't think that will be what DC is going to focus on with trying to lessen their mature stories. My guess is that their main line is what they might try and shift to being less mature, but I don't really know how big their main line of title will be going forward.

That was a good read, thanks.

Okay, I don't think DC's overall rankings here are as bad as you're making them sound. Yeah, they're clearly outclassed by the companies who's primary purpose is to sell books in this market. DC isn't built to compete with Scholasic or Viz. For DC trades have historically been little more than a side gig so the differences are, of course, going to be large. But the fact that DC is actually competing at all, and is out performing the other comic book publishers tells us that DC not only has the potential to become a real player, but is a bit ahead of the curve compared to their four color peers.

Yes, Watchmen is their big winner and without it DC wouldn't look nearly so good. Lucky for them, they *do* have Watchmen. And this isn't a unique problem, Image is far worse off when Walking Dead ends. And it seems like Marvel isn't really even playing the game. Dark Horse does look surprisingly strong, but generally seems to be locked behind DC.

DC has some huge loses in a few years, but also massive gains in others and it's position relative to the big 5 book publishers is in flux, but they have more positive gains per year than they drop. Yeah, 2018 wasn't a good year, and depending on which facet you look at 2019 wasn't either. But overall 2019 is a year of recovery and the bottom line is increasing, which is ultimately the only thing that matters.

DC doesn't have perfect performance here by any stretch but I'm not seeing a market that's beyond them. They've accomplished what they have while treating trades as a secondary product line; some smart investment and honest effort could easily carve them out a respectable chunk of the market share, if DC's even interested in doing that.

The problem is that DC was generally the #1 or #2 publisher annually in these rankings by Hibbs. So they were the standard for a long time. Marvel is the company that always did very poorly in their GN sales and never really bothered organizing a lot of their hallmark stories into easily collectible trades like DC has. So for DC's sales to just fall off suddenly when they didn't do anything differently is worrying, especially when the GN market is booming and superheros are as popular as they ever have been.

DC is producing more GNs than they ever have, but their return on each title is lower than it has been in a decade. So the concern is that the interest for the traditional superhero trades is fading. Where it is becoming more and more difficult for DC to generate a new "hit". In 2019 DC had their fewest titles place in the top 750 titles for the year since Hibbs has been tracking it while their traditional stories are also not selling as well as they used to. So when you see the numbers like this you can understand why DC might be trying to change their approach more.