Layoffs at DC?

[skyvolt2000]

I think DC's editors will need to relearn how to edit stories, yes, in the sense of taking incoming scripts and pitches and making them better. There are of course people at DC who already know that—Stjepan Sejic has mentioned how Andy Khouri improved Harleen—but I hope that "new" DC makes it a far higher priority.

I think the issue for most editors is having too much on your plate.

Take Marvel editors-the job listing I saw-they were doing the jobs of at least 3-4 folks.

If you want better editing-they need to stick to THAT not be told to recruit, pitch books, pay attention to this and that.

. Books for 12 to 45 year olds. Currently the books are 13+. Does going to 12 affect the content? Ie the legal guidelines for what they can do in the books. (Personally i think all of dcs books are entirely suitable for 11+ or even below but thats another topic)

Depends on the story you are doing.

I would say your gray area is way smaller than it should be.

Deathstroke and Terra's relationship would be more Teen Titans cartoon than the original comic.
Heroes in Crisis would probably be the version Tom King wanted.
Teen books would probably be more like the original Static comic-he's a hero but you see more of the private life and the balance of school and such.

For the most part-it's not really going to be a difference with some titles. I wouldn't really worry about it. At worst the bloodbath we have seen in some books get toned down.

[kjn]

There are similar panels for other countries. Hopefully this is all part of a well thought out plan, but it could be unconnected.

Okay, now I'm intruiged. I may not know all those names (most of those, if I'm being honest) but it's clear that DC truly tried here. That's interesting, to say the least.

I have sort of the opposite reaction. DC may have tried to—and even succeeded at—recruit good people for these panels, but as for the panels themselves…

As a veteran con-runner of fan-driven events, I believe that panels of the type "X in country Y" (or even worse, X in countries W, Y, and Z) generally are poor ones. They tend to become rather unfocused and with an unclear audience. They sound nice and dandy, but to me who has seen far too many of them, the problems are apparent.

For people from country Y, they already tend to know a lot of that stuff, and it tends to ghettoise the participants in the panel. For people with little or no knowledge about country Y, the approach often becomes too scattershot. They might have some nice sharing of anecdotes, but it's tricky to get that style of content going without a more freeform dialogue than online discussions allow.

If the goal is to showcase some of DC's international creators, I think there are much more interesting and fruitful ways to do so.

[dornwolf]

Well good to see that they finally said some thing. Hopefully we get some relaunch news soon

[skyvolt2000]

I believe 13+ is when you can put in bloody violence and sexy times like partial nudity and making out.

for kids you can put cartoon violence but no blood and no swears

Well that depends on where you live.

Look up the original versions of Sailor Moon, Voltron, Robotech, Gatchaman/Battle of the Planets, Power Rangers, Star Blazers and even Pokemon.

Sailor Mar's grandfather had to be toned down for the US.
Gatchaman was ULTRA violent and you saw folks get killed and Keyop swore like a Sailor.

[cranger]

If the goal is to showcase some of DC's international creators, I think there are much more interesting and fruitful ways to do so.

I think these are targeted to people in those countries, or at least of that origin, as the panels are in native languages. I get how in person these are probably of little value to outsiders, and as for being unfocused if the SDCC online con is any indication, all these panels are probably going to be all over the place.

[iron chimp]

1) Ages vary by region, whatever needs to be a certain age where you live might be different than someone a day's drive away. His answer had nothing to do with laws, just on how to focus their offerings.

2) Again, they publish works for the international market already using a lot of international talent. Who polices it already? They will have people in place with knowledge of those sensibilities. At worse it might limit some things, but given how sensitive Hollywood is to China, WB and DC probably have experience in this area.

1. I meant in terms of content for usa comics not internationally. Given the books have been 13+ for over a decade and now hes saying 12 of course that has rammifications. Its a classification system.

2. We saw all this in the UK 40 years ago when Marvel and then DC set up regional offices. Kevin Eastman set up a UK arm too later on.

This is what DC ended up with out of their UK recruitment.

Batman helpless with a gun to his head (ennis: hitman)
If you like superheroes yr a repressed homosexual (milligan: enigma)
Woman having sex with a plant, Gotham full of weed and hallucinogens (swampthing)
Every page (the boys: ennis)
Chimps rolling up joints by 3 bar electric fires (the filth)
A woman being raped by her boyfriends killer (shade the changing man)
Monsieur mallah and the brain in a gay relationship (doom patrol)

List is endless of the amount of utter nonsense they got and thats just the stuff they could publish.

That's what a commercially successful regional DC looks like in one country and i highly doubt top talent in europe is any different. Absolutely hammer yr dc budget, create a load of outrage and then move to film or computer games. Thats what brings the readers in. Its that or captain tuscany eating pasta and fighting a haunted etruscan pot or something equally benign.

Its an interesting initiative but having seen this in the uk decades ago it will be like herding cats. If its not, then its probably not working anyway. We shall see.

[cranger]

1. I meant in terms of content for usa comics not internationally. Given the books have been 13+ for over a decade and now hes saying 12 of course that has rammifications. Its a classification system.

2. We saw all this in the UK 40 years ago when Marvel and then DC set up regional offices. Kevin Eastman set up a UK arm too later on.

1. Again, the ages he gave are not important to what he was saying, and they will just put 13+ or whatever they need to on covers for whatever laws they need to appease. Is there some example of something that makes this an issue?

2. All that stuff was approved at the time because that was the agenda, not because they were not paying attention. The fact that he said "12-45" means that they will not be putting that stuff in there anymore. Back then, they were putting it in because they wanted to not be a kids line. Also, a lot of that stuff is still in print or happening in current DC titles with no blacklash.

[iron chimp]

Well that depends on where you live.

Look up the original versions of Sailor Moon, Voltron, Robotech, Gatchaman/Battle of the Planets, Power Rangers, Star Blazers and even Pokemon.

Sailor Mar's grandfather had to be toned down for the US.
Gatchaman was ULTRA violent and you saw folks get killed and Keyop swore like a Sailor.

Well yes thats interesting too. Trying to import regional characters into the main Usa DC universe. Whats entirely acceptable in one place is entirely unacceptable in USA and vice versa..

If ziggy Marley's comic is anything to go by, if yr in jamaica on DCs dime yr probably going to invent Honky Killer about a man on a motorcycle made from a giant bong on a revenge mission against descdents of plantation owners. Of course that will never see the light of day and instead it will be a very worthy book about obeah or some such that will be quietly forgotten.

Bit of anarchy with AT&Ts chequebook across the world will be very funny though. Im in.

[Ascended]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean the series will be renewed during the relaunch, or should I remind you of PG and Zatanna's ongoings before Flashpoint? :P

Ha! You *know* you don't have to remind me of that! And who knows what will happen in the future but Naomi was a big hit, if DC abandons that then....well, honestly, then f**k them. Maybe they do season 2 on digital, or OGN, or whatever, but walking away from a book with a new character that consistently sold better with each issue and got nothing but rave reviews? I struggle to imagine even DC being *that* stupid.

And looking a bit more into my crystal ball on what might change with DC.

Also, I believe that the creative lead will move from the direct market books to OGNs and digital. This does not mean that DC will abandon the direct market, but it will be of secondary importance for DC's creative efforts.

I cut your post down just to save space, but yeah I agree with your assessment. Lee didn't talk much about trades here, and those initial reports didn't talk about them a ton either, but both mention digital several times. So looks like a main focus on digital, the direct market gets cut back (Lee said what, 20-25%?) and instead of every comic getting a trade run for every six issues, they'll cut that back to more important story lines and digital books that perform well will be adapted into print. So far I feel like you and I are doing pretty well at guessing the strategy. >bro fist!<

You might be able to create your own Superman and Batman comics 15 years from now, but they would be modeled after their versions in Action Comics #1 and Detective Comics #27.

Disney and AT&T will lobby to extend the law, just like they have several times before. Every time Mickey Mouse and Superman are approaching the public domain deadline, the companies bribe congress into changing the law so it doesn't happen. They are not going to let those IP's hit public domain.

Now, as for the focus on digital, the reports we saw earlier this week indicated that was going to be their main focus and Lee seems to confirm it here. I know we've been focused on the OGN side of the discussion the last few days but if you go back and look at those early reports and the posts we made about them, we knew digital was going to be the main focus; I feel like we allowed ourselves to sidetrack onto the trade side of things over the last few days....but the thing to keep in mind here is that Lee has confirmed a lot of those reports, so the odds of the other stuff in those reports being accurate seem a hell of a lot higher.

[The Darknight Detective]

Disney and AT&T will lobby to extend the law, just like they have several times before. Every time Mickey Mouse and Superman are approaching the public domain deadline, the companies bribe congress into changing the law so it doesn't happen. They are not going to let those IP's hit public domain.

I also suspect that will be the case.

[iron chimp]

1. Again, the ages he gave are not important to what he was saying, and they will just put 13+ or whatever they need to on covers for whatever laws they need to appease. Is there some example of something that makes this an issue?

2. All that stuff was approved at the time because that was the agenda, not because they were not paying attention. The fact that he said "12-45" means that they will not be putting that stuff in there anymore. Back then, they were putting it in because they wanted to not be a kids line. Also, a lot of that stuff is still in print or happening in current DC titles with no blacklash.

1. Is there an example where age classification makes a difference? Well yes... thats why we have classifications on film, computer games, tv, etc.

2. Yes it was approved at the time - and none of it would be signed off today. But thats what a UK regional DC looks like. Obviously they slept on the boys because that got pulled and they had to withdraw swampthing from newsstand etc etc. It caused issues even at the time. I cant imagine the writer of the adventures of young Hitler getting a gig at dc today.

Italy spain france uk etc have next to no superheroes of their own. Give them money to create superheroes for your international media conglomerate to exploit til the end of tine and they will spew out a lot of 'unusual' work. Yes you can block it all to match yr global branding ethos going forward but then yr just reskinning yr existing characters in a different location. I just seems a bit naive to expect countries with little or zero superhero heritage to fall in linevwith yr ethos.

Using britain as an example
James bond - blunt instrument of British establishment
Judge dredd - blunt instrument of a police state
Rogue Trooper - who ever knew if he was fighting on side of good or not ? or even if there was a side
Strontium dog - mutants, not xmen supermodel mutants, but genuine mangled freaks.

Those were some of britains biggest comic / pulp characters. They are very different to Marvel and DC. So obviously when Britain came to DC they created freaks, weirdos, douchebags and pisstakes of DC itself.

Thats what one regional trend looks like. Its not very compatible with todays DC. Ok so just create ones that are compatible? Then they are no longer regional characters tho - just reskins of american ones.

Not that i dont think its not interesting idea - im just struggling to see...

[cranger]

1. Is there an example where age classification makes a difference? Well yes... thats why we have classifications on film, computer games, tv, etc.

2. Yes it was approved at the time - and none of it would be signed off today. But thats what a UK regional DC looks like. Obviously they slept on the boys because that got pulled and they had to withdraw swampthing from newsstand etc etc. It caused issues even at the time. I cant imagine the writer of the adventures of young Hitler getting a gig at dc today.

1. I mean a case where because Jim Lee said 12-45 in an interview they are up to something illegal. It just seems like making a big deal out of something that we all know will not change how they label things. If something needs to say 13+ it will say 13+.

2. Things can go wrong, and if they let the inmates run the asylum they certainly will. While it makes an interesting game of "imagine they let so and so do whatever they want just because it is so cultural" do you really think they are going to let that happen? I mean there are a lot of big comics in North American comics, whether they are at Image or Avatar, and it is not like DC is letting anything slip by. It is not like these other regions do not have a "ratings system" for lack of a better term when it comes to content and what is appropriate. I mean you keep listing all these British comics, but how much of that kind of content would you find on BBC?

[Ascended]

I took it to mean that they were basically just going to be "Batman the Manga" again, honestly. Nothing more well thought out or designed than that. Take Bruce Wayne, add in whatever troupes are common in manga, stir until blended.

[CellarDweller]

Well, damn. I can’t say Young Justice was near the top of my read pile, but I’ve been buying because I love me some former 90s sidekicks. It was nice to see them again, anyway.

Shame about YJ, it was the best thing Bendis has written in years and I enjoyed it.

Try Naomi. Makes Young Justice look like bad fanfic. And I say this as someone who has enjoyed Bendis' YJ.

I was also enjoying YJ, and that leads me to what (I guess) is a stupid question.


there seemed to be a pretty big 'to do' about Bendis getting Wonder Comics, and that it would be considered part of the DCU. Does Wonder Comics even have anything anymore?

YJ is cancelled, Naomi concluded its 6 issue run, Dial H and Wonder Twins finished their 12 issue run, Amethyst ends in September. I remember reading that there would be a season two for Naomi, but I'm assuming that's not gonna happen.

[Ascended]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Wonder line is officially dead with the end of YJ.

Makes me sad too.

As far as Naomi goes, there's no reason DC couldn't continue with season 2. It just wouldn't be part of an imprint. And it might be done as a trade or as digital instead of as a floppy, but the end result would basically be the same either way.

I'm hoping we hear something about this at Fandome, but I'm not holding my breath. Still, while Naomi might disappear and be forgotten in the wake of all these changes, it could just as easily still happen. I wouldn't start worrying about Naomi's future until we know more about what's going down at DC and what happens with Bendis.