Layoffs at DC?

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

I think another reboot is even more likely now.

After all, a reboot will increase sales at first. So this would be a short-term benefit.

Long-term negative consequences shouldn't matter as much because they no longer have as much interest in direct market and floppies.

They want to focus on OGN and Digital, so they probably don't care much about continuity anymore.

Surely DC know that a "reboot" is not the Holy Grail and is more like a wild goose chase!

Seriously, whatever happened to quality stories and not the elusive dollar?

Build it (write-it) and they will come. ... hence the reason a lot of writers are now publishing under their own brands, Image or Dark Horse.

Watching DC over the years is like watching a car crash just waiting to happen.

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

Most likely DC publishes the required minimum amount to keep those characters under their belt so they don't fall into the public domain.

I wish they could, Dark Horse could create some amazing stuff for DC, just like they did for Star Wars!

[dornwolf]

They'll hang on to them for future adaptation use.

Ah the marvel approach

[Masterff]

I think Cassandra Sandsmark would the choice for Wonder Girl because of her simpler backstory than Donna (poor, poor Donna). I could easily see Donna entering comic book limbo.

Bart is just another Kid Flash and Tim is Third Robin. Yeah, I see them joining Donna and others on a shelf in limbo.

Its more likely that Damian,Jon and Wallace will be in the limbo...

1. Tim-Damian:
I) Comics
SuperSons ended and TT seem to be "replaced" by YJ.
I read rumors that Tim will be Robin again and I heard rumors that Tim will get a Comic Series with Stephanie.
He is Batman in DCeased, but this is on another Earth...
II) Outside of Comics:
Damian was a main-character in DC Animated Films, but this timeline ended..
He was shown as baby in YJ, but if we dont get a big step in the future, its unlikely that we will see him as Robin there.
Tim is in YJ and I think he might even be in Titans in one of the next seasons...

Here I think Tim will be more present than Damian...

2. Bart-Wallace
I) Comics
Bart is more connected with the Flash Family and has a wide support cast with Max,Wally,Barry,Jay,YJ etc. etc. etc. etc.
he had a solo-series etc.
II) Personality
He isnt only another Kid Flash, but has found his own role as Impulse
III) Legacy
He has more history than Wallace
IV) Outside of Comics:
Bart was in Smallville, replaced Wally in YJ and is the only young speedster there

3. Cassandra-Donna
I) Comics:
Cassandra has a more unique origin, will likely get a big storyline (Amulet of Zeus) and is at the moment in a better situation because of YJ
II) Outside of Comics:
Donna was only shown once in YJ and DC Animated Movies, while Cassandra is a regular in YJ Anime...

4. Conner-Jon
Conner has more legacy, more interesting backstory-we have seen how different you can make it (Injustice,Titans,YJ,Comics).
He is the main-protagonist in YJ Anime, was one of the Main-Protagonists in Injustice Comics, Titans TV Series, was in Smallville etc. etc.

[Artemisfanboy]

I think Cassandra Sandsmark would the choice for Wonder Girl because of her simpler backstory than Donna (poor, poor Donna). I could easily see Donna entering comic book limbo.

Bart is just another Kid Flash and Tim is Third Robin. Yeah, I see them joining Donna and others on a shelf in limbo.

Alternatively, they may take after the live action Titans show and it's version of Donna with a greatly simplified origin. Though ideally there should be room for both Donna and Cassie.

They are probably not still using the JSA.

JSA does not sell merchandise.

We need to stop thinking 'comic books' and start thinking 'coloring books'...and Underoos and and t-shirts and toys and etcetera.

We know and love the JSA because we know and love comics. Most people do not know who the JSA are. (Unless you mean Stargirl's JSA; then, some know about that.)

Mister Terrific will probably go to the JLA...if he does not go to comic-book limbo.

I think you're underselling the value of the JSA at least as current WB sees. It may have been true at one time, but we some major adaptations with the JSA going on right now. You mention Stargirl, albeit with dismissive tone, and you seem to forget a version of the JSA is also suppose to be in the upcoming Black Adam movie. Also Beth and Yolanda's presence with the returned JSA in doomsday clock already points to synergy with the Stargirl tv show.

They Do Not Care About Comic Books.

Buy or Don't...whatever makes you happy.

They care about IPs and merchandise. They want to be kid-friendly. Expect this to shape the future.

Then why is PG-13 generally considered the sweet preferred rating for superhero movies and the CW shows are primetime dramas?

I think its a bit early for "Everything is going to be G rated and dumbed down from now on, and there's nothing you can do about it" doomsaying. Assuming the thing about Black Label being phased out and retired because the new management not being keen on more mature stuff, it might just mean less new R-Rated stuff. As far as "nothing you can do about it" that depends on whether or not their new direction(assuming its your worst case scenario) would be beneficial in profit either directly or indirectly, or they would be stuborn to continue despite bad reception and lack of improvement in sales either directly or indirectly.

Now, there's a lot to be concerned about. We know given the amount of people being cut, the line-up is going to shrink. But we don't know how much. And we have no idea how this will impact stories or character portrayal at this point. We need more information to get a grasp on the situation. I would like to keep calm and and avoid panicking until we have more information about what they have planned.

[Holt]

The Stargirl show likely means the JSA would be around in some capacity. It also illustrates my point about why they're unlikely to let obscure heroes go public domain. A decade ago, the idea that there'd be a mainstream TV show starring the likes of Doctor Mid-Nite, Hourman, Wildcat and Shining Knight probably would've seemed like a pipe dream.

[Aahz]

Tim is in YJ and I think he might even be in Titans in one of the next seasons...

But in YJ he is barely more than a background character.

[iron chimp]

We are not controlling this.

I've accepted that Teen Titans Go is what children enjoy and what they think DC cartoons/comics should be. I've know that TPTB want to be kid-friendly.

I've accepted that TPTB are uninterested in comic books and are interested coloring books, Underoos, t-shirts, toys and etcetera. IPs and merchandising are the future of DC.

I given up hope on c-list characters; they will fade into limbo. Some b-listers may be joining them. I am curious which characters remain and which ones disappear.

Again, we're not controlling this.

I dont even think DC are controlling this. The wild swings of emphasis in the company suggest a lot of infighting up the chain to me.

Reboot (nu52), rebrand dcyou, reboot again (rebirth), aborted reboot (5g if true), then big cull, then another change of direction that sounds that it would have been more suited to the 5g initiative they cancelled.

Dan didio sacked in pretty poor circumstances, mark doyle the only guy whose division shifted big units gone.

Two vertigo relaunches, then a rebrand as part of a new imprint that seems to be being abandoned within 2 years of launching despite it being their main force in trade sales.

Change distro then cut the product line to the distro and talk about moving away from that distro model within 2 months.

Too many people with too many conflicting ideas trying to gain control to me. You cant work and plan anything under those conditions.

Its very sad to see. If they dont stick to one clear plan and make it work they are going to run it into the ground

[iron chimp]

y'all think this culling being on the horizon was why DC finally settled up with the McDuffie estate/Milestone Media?

The settlement was between mcduffie estate and denis cowan. Nothing to do with DC. Unless there have been developments since that i dont know but the issue had been mcduffie suing cowan

[Konja7]

Its more likely that Damian,Jon and Wallace will be in the limbo...

1. Tim-Damian:
I) Comics
SuperSons ended and TT seem to be "replaced" by YJ.
I read rumors that Tim will be Robin again and I heard rumors that Tim will get a Comic Series with Stephanie.
He is Batman in DCeased, but this is on another Earth...
II) Outside of Comics:
Damian was a main-character in DC Animated Films, but this timeline ended..
He was shown as baby in YJ, but if we dont get a big step in the future, its unlikely that we will see him as Robin there.
Tim is in YJ and I think he might even be in Titans in one of the next seasons...

Here I think Tim will be more present than Damian...

2. Bart-Wallace
I) Comics
Bart is more connected with the Flash Family and has a wide support cast with Max,Wally,Barry,Jay,YJ etc. etc. etc. etc.
he had a solo-series etc.
II) Personality
He isnt only another Kid Flash, but has found his own role as Impulse
III) Legacy
He has more history than Wallace
IV) Outside of Comics:
Bart was in Smallville, replaced Wally in YJ and is the only young speedster there

3. Cassandra-Donna
I) Comics:
Cassandra has a more unique origin, will likely get a big storyline (Amulet of Zeus) and is at the moment in a better situation because of YJ
II) Outside of Comics:
Donna was only shown once in YJ and DC Animated Movies, while Cassandra is a regular in YJ Anime...

4. Conner-Jon
Conner has more legacy, more interesting backstory-we have seen how different you can make it (Injustice,Titans,YJ,Comics).
He is the main-protagonist in YJ Anime, was one of the Main-Protagonists in Injustice Comics, Titans TV Series, was in Smallville etc. etc.

I think you really want YJ4 to be mantained, right?

In comics, Young Justice and Teen Titans seem to be in a pretty bad position. So, I don't think these will really survives the culling.

In general, Damian is the most popular Robin in other media. Damian appears as Robin in Harley Quinn (I heard he will have more prominence in season 3). He is also Robin in many animated films. Not to mentions that the "Son of Batman" concept is a pretty popular concept.

I don't know if Damian will be Robin in YJ animation in the future, but I really doubt Tim as Robin appearance there keep him safe.

Jon and Conner have different and interesting concepts as "the son of Superman" and "clone of Superman". So, I think both characters could be mantained, but I don't know what DC will do with the characters.

The fate of Donna and Cassie is totally dependent on what group DC want to save. I think Donna has more possibilities to appear, because DC could make a Titans book where they will put Nightwing (and she will likely be there too).

Regarding Bart and Wallace, I can't really imagine what they will do with these members.


PS: We should also Remember that DC doesn't seem to have so much interest on monthly floppies (they seem to want focus on digital and OGN).

[Robanker]

I think you really want YJ4 to be mantained, right?

In comics, Young Justice and Teen Titans seem to be in a pretty bad position. So, I don't think these will really survives the culling.

In general, Damian is the most popular Robin in other media. Damian appears as Robin in Harley Quinn (I heard he will have more prominence in season 3). He is also Robin in many animated films. Not to mentions that the "Son of Batman" concept is a pretty popular concept.

I don't know if Damian will be Robin in YJ animation in the future, but I really doubt Tim as Robin appearance there keep him safe.

Jon and Conner have different and interesting concepts as "the son of Superman" and "clone of Superman. So, I think both characters could be mantained, but I don't know what DC will do with the characters.

The fate of Donna and Cassie is totally dependent on what group DC want to save. I think Donna has more possibilities to appear, because DC could make a Titans book where they will put Nightwing (and she will likely be there too).

Regarding Bart and Wallace, I can't really imagine what they will do with these members.


PS: We should also Remember that DC doesn't seem to have so much interest on monthly floppies (they seem to want focus on digital and OGN).

He is obsessed with the YJ4 and Conner in particular.

Jon sticking around has less to do with him and more with the Super marriage. DC always tries to break up Lois and Clark, so obviously Jon goes if the marriage does, but I don't think he's leaving if they stick together. If anything, he would be de-aged to the version that generated most interest.

Conner has absolutely nothing to do with if Jon stays or not. He's kind of an afterthought to DC in terms of publication, but in adaptions there is room for both. Both Jon and Conner's trajectories as heroes are very different so there's no reason to drop either. Hell, contrast them. Make them come together as bros, one trying to live up to his dad and the other trying to be his own man because he doesn't want to be defined by the people he's cloned from.

There's no need to pit the Superboys against each other.

On topic, it's an been said but I'll chime in to agree that it's very concerning news. I hope those losing their jobs bounce back in some ways (save those protecting scum, who frankly can rot). I don't want to overreact, but this does sound like the end for the B/C list which I love. Hope to be proven wrong.

[king81992]

Its more likely that Damian,Jon and Wallace will be in the limbo...

1. Tim-Damian:
I) Comics
SuperSons ended and TT seem to be "replaced" by YJ.
I read rumors that Tim will be Robin again and I heard rumors that Tim will get a Comic Series with Stephanie.
He is Batman in DCeased, but this is on another Earth...
II) Outside of Comics:
Damian was a main-character in DC Animated Films, but this timeline ended..
He was shown as baby in YJ, but if we dont get a big step in the future, its unlikely that we will see him as Robin there.
Tim is in YJ and I think he might even be in Titans in one of the next seasons...

Here I think Tim will be more present than Damian...

2. Bart-Wallace
I) Comics
Bart is more connected with the Flash Family and has a wide support cast with Max,Wally,Barry,Jay,YJ etc. etc. etc. etc.
he had a solo-series etc.
II) Personality
He isnt only another Kid Flash, but has found his own role as Impulse
III) Legacy
He has more history than Wallace
IV) Outside of Comics:
Bart was in Smallville, replaced Wally in YJ and is the only young speedster there

3. Cassandra-Donna
I) Comics:
Cassandra has a more unique origin, will likely get a big storyline (Amulet of Zeus) and is at the moment in a better situation because of YJ
II) Outside of Comics:
Donna was only shown once in YJ and DC Animated Movies, while Cassandra is a regular in YJ Anime...

4. Conner-Jon
Conner has more legacy, more interesting backstory-we have seen how different you can make it (Injustice,Titans,YJ,Comics).
He is the main-protagonist in YJ Anime, was one of the Main-Protagonists in Injustice Comics, Titans TV Series, was in Smallville etc. etc.

Bart and Wallace can co exist, they play different roles.

I feel like both Donna and Cassie are likely to be shafted, DC has a nasty habit of rarely using Diana's supporting cast in her book or replacing them everytime a new writer takes over.

Not sure what happens with Kon and Jon.Most people disliked Jon getting aged up, so they might de age him.

Tim and Damian can coexist, the problem is that their fanbases think that one must go for the other to thrive.

[scary harpy]

I'm not used to so much attention.

Surely DC know that a "reboot" is not the Holy Grail and is more like a wild goose chase!

Seriously, whatever happened to quality stories and not the elusive dollar?

Build it (write-it) and they will come. ... hence the reason a lot of writers are now publishing under their own brands, Image or Dark Horse.

Watching DC over the years is like watching a car crash just waiting to happen.

DC is infamous for not learning from its history or mistakes.

Alternatively, they may take after the live action Titans show and it's version of Donna with a greatly simplified origin. Though ideally there should be room for both Donna and Cassie.

I hope you're right.

I think you're underselling the value of the JSA at least as current WB sees. It may have been true at one time, but we some major adaptations with the JSA going on right now. You mention Stargirl, albeit with dismissive tone, and you seem to forget a version of the JSA is also suppose to be in the upcoming Black Adam movie. Also Beth and Yolanda's presence with the returned JSA in doomsday clock already points to synergy with the Stargirl tv show.


Then why is PG-13 generally considered the sweet preferred rating for superhero movies and the CW shows are primetime dramas?

I think its a bit early for "Everything is going to be G rated and dumbed down from now on, and there's nothing you can do about it" doomsaying. Assuming the thing about Black Label being phased out and retired because the new management not being keen on more mature stuff, it might just mean less new R-Rated stuff. As far as "nothing you can do about it" that depends on whether or not their new direction(assuming its your worst case scenario) would be beneficial in profit either directly or indirectly, or they would be stubborn to continue despite bad reception and lack of improvement in sales either directly or indirectly.

Now, there's a lot to be concerned about. We know given the amount of people being cut, the line-up is going to shrink. But we don't know how much. And we have no idea how this will impact stories or character portrayal at this point. We need more information to get a grasp on the situation. I would like to keep calm and avoid panicking until we have more information about what they have planned.

The Stargirl show likely means the JSA would be around in some capacity. It also illustrates my point about why they're unlikely to let obscure heroes go public domain. A decade ago, the idea that there'd be a mainstream TV show starring the likes of Doctor Mid-Nite, Hourman, Wildcat and Shining Knight probably would've seemed like a pipe dream.

In Stargirl, there are 2 JSAs: the dead JSA and the adolescent JSA. I agree that the teenagers could become very popular. (I will miss Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and Ted Grant because I have known them for so long.)

I dont even think DC are controlling this. The wild swings of emphasis in the company suggest a lot of infighting up the chain to me.

Reboot (nu52), rebrand dcyou, reboot again (rebirth), aborted reboot (5g if true), then big cull, then another change of direction that sounds that it would have been more suited to the 5g initiative they cancelled.

Dan didio sacked in pretty poor circumstances, mark doyle the only guy whose division shifted big units gone.

Two vertigo relaunches, then a rebrand as part of a new imprint that seems to be being abandoned within 2 years of launching despite it being their main force in trade sales.

Change distro then cut the product line to the distro and talk about moving away from that distro model within 2 months.

Too many people with too many conflicting ideas trying to gain control to me. You cant work and plan anything under those conditions.

Its very sad to see. If they dont stick to one clear plan and make it work they are going to run it into the ground

This has the ring of truth.

[superduperman]

I dont even think DC are controlling this. The wild swings of emphasis in the company suggest a lot of infighting up the chain to me.

Reboot (nu52), rebrand dcyou, reboot again (rebirth), aborted reboot (5g if true), then big cull, then another change of direction that sounds that it would have been more suited to the 5g initiative they cancelled.

Dan didio sacked in pretty poor circumstances, mark doyle the only guy whose division shifted big units gone.

Two vertigo relaunches, then a rebrand as part of a new imprint that seems to be being abandoned within 2 years of launching despite it being their main force in trade sales.

Change distro then cut the product line to the distro and talk about moving away from that distro model within 2 months.

Too many people with too many conflicting ideas trying to gain control to me. You cant work and plan anything under those conditions.

Its very sad to see. If they dont stick to one clear plan and make it work they are going to run it into the ground

This.

It's obvious there were conflicting personalities at DC for years now. And Warners didn't care about DC until about ten years ago when the Marvel movies started doing well. Lately I've been thinking more and more about Janette Kahn. She ran a tight ship. And didn't come in with an agenda to turn the books into her own personal fan fiction. This is what DC needs. Someone who isn't breaking out their middle school notebooks and using those as their references for how to run the company. Warners killed Vertigo by demanding a piece of the action. Everyone involved after Kahn left had their own agenda and it's obvious it wasn't doing what was best for the company. Is moving away from the DM model best for the company? I don't know. I think there is an argument to be made that comic shops shouldn't be the sole dictators of how the company operates though. One of the things I DO think would help the company is to have someone who doesn't have a comics background. And isn't going to make decisions based on which version of the Flash is their favorite.

[Light of Justice]

Its more likely that Damian,Jon and Wallace will be in the limbo...

1. Tim-Damian:
I) Comics
SuperSons ended and TT seem to be "replaced" by YJ.
I read rumors that Tim will be Robin again and I heard rumors that Tim will get a Comic Series with Stephanie.
He is Batman in DCeased, but this is on another Earth...
II) Outside of Comics:
Damian was a main-character in DC Animated Films, but this timeline ended..
He was shown as baby in YJ, but if we dont get a big step in the future, its unlikely that we will see him as Robin there.
Tim is in YJ and I think he might even be in Titans in one of the next seasons...

Here I think Tim will be more present than Damian...

2. Bart-Wallace
I) Comics
Bart is more connected with the Flash Family and has a wide support cast with Max,Wally,Barry,Jay,YJ etc. etc. etc. etc.
he had a solo-series etc.
II) Personality
He isnt only another Kid Flash, but has found his own role as Impulse
III) Legacy
He has more history than Wallace
IV) Outside of Comics:
Bart was in Smallville, replaced Wally in YJ and is the only young speedster there

3. Cassandra-Donna
I) Comics:
Cassandra has a more unique origin, will likely get a big storyline (Amulet of Zeus) and is at the moment in a better situation because of YJ
II) Outside of Comics:
Donna was only shown once in YJ and DC Animated Movies, while Cassandra is a regular in YJ Anime...

4. Conner-Jon
Conner has more legacy, more interesting backstory-we have seen how different you can make it (Injustice,Titans,YJ,Comics).
He is the main-protagonist in YJ Anime, was one of the Main-Protagonists in Injustice Comics, Titans TV Series, was in Smallville etc. etc.

Isn't it unfair to compare legacies and histories of young generation like Damian, Jon, and Wallace with older generation like Bart, Conner, and Tim? Of course YJ core will have more histories, they have more time after all. Don't think either of them will be on limbo, Damian will appear on Tomasi's Tec, Harley show, and Apokolips War are pretty successful. Tim has high possibilities to appear on Tynion's Batman book. Jon is maybe the most important character on current Legion of Superheroes, and Bendis works hard to brought Conner back into main continuity. I have no comment on Wallace and Bart, I'm not familiar with Flashes.