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Thread: Layoffs at DC?

  1. #271
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    OGNs are a growing market, even manga is growing, but specifically superhero GNs from publishers like DC or Marvel aren't seeing that same type of growth. They are actually falling. It is all laid out in the Hibbs' bookscan article. He does a great job of breaking down all the numbers. Basically DC is down in sales and revenue from just a handful of years ago despite producing more books than back then. Their average dollar value per book is down to numbers around the 2010 or 2011 era.
    Got a link to the article? I would like to read that.

    Okay, so revenue is down, yet trades/OGN's have seen a 6-11% increase from 2018-2019. Are we looking at a increase of overhead and production costs perhaps? Administrative overlap soaking up the profits? "Creative" accounting being used to hide losses elsewhere? Could it simply be that the years before were exceptionally good (we would've been building up to the MCU's Infinity War and Endgame which might've increased sales for a bit perhaps) and this is just leveling off back to normal? I don't have a big enough picture of the whole enterprise to see where the problem lies. But assuming both of our numbers are correct, we're still looking at a market that is enjoying solid growth; if DC and Marvel are struggling to maintain their market share among trade/OGN sales it shouldn't be too hard to adjust things and solve the issue. Throw some theory of constraints at that bitch and fix it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    nope, sorry. they won't do that.

    We research because we love this!

    This is a business to them.
    That's *why* they should do their research! I'd instantly fire someone if I found out they didn't do their due diligence; especially on this level you're talking tons and tons of money either made or lost based on the choices you make....and how can you make viable choices without some facts? Even taking into account the "thirds" theory of management (where a manager only has a third of the facts they need and relies on others and intuition for the rest) you gotta know the market you're dealing with.

    I research this stuff because I love it, but if I'm drawing a paycheck for something, I research that too. Common sense, right? But I've realized that, having recently graduated, all those "basic business do's & don't's" are far fresher in my mind than the old guys who've been sitting around board meetings for years.
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  2. #272
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Got a link to the article? I would like to read that.

    Okay, so revenue is down, yet trades/OGN's have seen a 6-11% increase from 2018-2019. Are we looking at a increase of overhead and production costs perhaps? Administrative overlap soaking up the profits? "Creative" accounting being used to hide losses elsewhere? Could it simply be that the years before were exceptionally good (we would've been building up to the MCU's Infinity War and Endgame which might've increased sales for a bit perhaps) and this is just leveling off back to normal? I don't have a big enough picture of the whole enterprise to see where the problem lies. But assuming both of our numbers are correct, we're still looking at a market that is enjoying solid growth; if DC and Marvel are struggling to maintain their market share among trade/OGN sales it shouldn't be too hard to adjust things and solve the issue. Throw some theory of constraints at that bitch and fix it up!
    Here is Hibb's bookscan article for 2019 sales: https://www.comicsbeat.com/bookscan-2019-analysis/

    He's done this article for years. It used to be on CBR even which is when I started following it. I'd go back and look at 2018's article too as that is when the numbers for some publishers, like DC, really fell off. In 2019 they were up over 2018's numbers because Watchmen sold better again after a really down 2018 thanks to the 2019 HBO Watchmen series, but overall their numbers were still down a fair amount to just a few years ago.

  3. #273
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    It only mentions Rorschach but hoping this means Historia is still on the way.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    They need to copy Manga.
    They can't, part of manga's success is that it can be made cheaply, primarily because it has no colour. Superhero comics were designed from the ground up to have colour.

    Imagine reading a Green Lantern comic without it.
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  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    They can't, part of manga's success is that it can be made cheaply, primarily because it has no colour. Superhero comics were designed from the ground up to have colour.

    Imagine reading a Green Lantern comic without it.
    I mean in the terms of structure, story, hot women, less politics and social stuff reflecting USA.

  6. #276
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Gods, I would really hope *somebody* would do their due diligence and recognize that comics haven't been solely for kids since the....60's I guess?

    Seriously, it's not f*cking hard to do a little research into the industry you're about to tear apart and stitch back together. I hope the people at AT&T know better than to make assumptions.....but I feel like both AT&T and WB don't have a close working relationship with facts, sometimes.
    Odds are good that they did their research, you are seemingly reacting to an opinion of an opinion of a opinion of a rumor after all. That is, I trust them to be operating on facts more than I trust this forum, Twitter, or that place it all seems to stem from.

  7. #277
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    I mean in the terms of structure, story, hot women, less politics and social stuff reflecting USA.
    Here we go...

  8. #278
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    I mean in the terms of structure, story, hot women, less politics and social stuff reflecting USA.
    There are a lot of small publishers still doing stuff like that, and I am not talking about those people who shall not be named. But manga is pretty varied itself, the difference is one title has nothing to do with another for the most part. When something runs its course, it is done. Things end, things begin, they can all do their own things. I can't imagine people who are fans of low selling titles sit around finding ways to complain that the books everyone wants to read get all the attention, but you never know.

  9. #279
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    There has never been anything political in manga relating to Japan, clearly.


  10. #280
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    That whole eSports business manager thing sounds...not promising (I'm a little late to some of the news).
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  11. #281
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    That whole eSports business manager thing sounds...not promising (I'm a little late to some of the news).
    Here is my hope. The person is not in charge of creative direction (that is Jim Lee) and there are actual publishing type people in editor positions. So that is covered. What do comics lack? What is the thing a business does when it needs to grow? Advertise. Market itself. What has been a booming market? E-sports. I don't know if what this person knows can translate to comics, but it is worth a shot as no one else has managed to find a way to make money and there is only so long the faux speculator bubble is going to sustain this.

  12. #282
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Looked at like that, that certainly sounds a lot less off-putting. Hopefully its in a vein like that.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  13. #283
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Having read the article, I don't like what I'm hearing. It sounds like this Lifford doesn't like books aimed at adults and is wanting to turn DC into a merchandising house. It sounds like some of the more mature stuff that they've published in the past will still be published but going forward, they aren't going to do anymore "mature" books. So if anyone is hoping for a return to Vertigo or something like it, it doesn't sound like that's going to happen. As for this "e-sports" (not a real thing) person, I have no idea what this has to do with comics. I know some of us wanted AT&T management to have someone step in put a stop to the destructive nepotism that's hurt DC lately but I don't think this is what anyone had in mind. It's good to aim at a younger demographic. But DC has had a "mature readers" division for 30 years. Now they're just phasing it out? This feeds into my fears that this really is a bunch of people who don't understand comics coming in with their heavy hand and just acting like comics were made for kids and all the adult readers are just man-children who never grew up or something.
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  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    I mean in the terms of structure, story, hot women, less politics and social stuff reflecting USA.
    You must not read a lot of manga.

    Because those do happen in some.

    He's done this article for years. It used to be on CBR even which is when I started following it. I'd go back and look at 2018's article too as that is when the numbers for some publishers, like DC, really fell off. In 2019 they were up over 2018's numbers because Watchmen sold better again after a really down 2018 thanks to the 2019 HBO Watchmen series, but overall their numbers were still down a fair amount to just a few years ago.
    Don't forget that is another venue not being counted. Ebay and used book stores like Half Price Books.

    DC probably fell off because folks went the used route way more than they did new copies. Especially for folks like Batman whose books make up the majority of those copies.

    I would suspect if you look at certain titles that is part of the reason for the decline.

    Along with books going out of print-depending on where you live New 52 Static trade or his run in Teen Titans will set you back about $50 (more the Static book than the TT book now).


    Odds are good that they did their research, you are seemingly reacting to an opinion of an opinion of a opinion of a rumor after all.
    Well their research should have told them to NOT take in some much debt.

    The same research that seemly told them to ignore the Black Panther wave that saw many of his books and others of color get a sale boost.
    Except for one company that won't let Cyborg do something other then cry about his Daddy and get hacked or tossed out a HORRIBLE Black Lightning book.

    The same research that told them to pander their network to women. With way too many shows not lasting beyond the first 13 episodes. Thank goodness for supernatural hunters, vampires and dc heroes.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    That whole eSports business manager thing sounds...not promising (I'm a little late to some of the news).
    I had to look the crap up.

    All about video games and merchandise. 1.9 billion revenue in 2018.

    At worst you get a DC Online with everybody in it. Not sure how that helps books now.

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