Why haven't any of the Black female X-men caught on other than Storm?

[Zelena]

For the usual (overgrown) adolescent male power fantasy, of course. A lot of people who read superhero comics, especially X-Men, do so not out of resonance or engagement with the moral lessons superhero comics attempt to impart, but for scenes of their favorite characters "being badass," which all too often precludes deeper engagement with the story and the ethos presented by said story. As such, these people don't take very kindly to having their vicarious power fantasies "interrupted" or "sidetracked" by questions of more complex morality that might force them to examine their own deep-seated beliefs and biases.

I can see how what you say it’s true… I can’t help regretting that: I grew up with Claremont’s stories and this author didn’t favor more a character than another. So myself I didn’t favor a character more than another and I didn’t feel more represented by a character. Sometimes I was more in tune with a character, and sometimes with another, depending on the situation.

And “bad-ass action” certainly wasn’t predominant in the stories and wasn’t done more by a character than another… well, except Wolverine.

[Steel Inquisitor]

So here is the thing it is a MYTH that no new character can surpass or equal the O5, All new all different and Blue/Gold Era teams characters.

Wolverine obviously did this, but his fame is exceptional even among X-men. Kitty Pryde, Nightcrawler and Storm would be runner ups, the rest - didn't do it. The problem is not solely about the comics, it's about other media - like cartoons and movies. Which the 05 dominate + Wolverine.

We literally live in a era where MHA is kicking the crap out of everything in terms of sales. But it is a Manga right? Yeah it is a Manga but manga have shown us over and over that new "classic" characters can be created over and over. If I asked someone the age of who these products are marketed at who Spiderman, Superman, Batman they would know them but if also asked who Goku or Naruto they would also know, I would also bet large amount know who the leads of My Hero Academy,One Punch Man and Demon Slayer are as well. If those manga can become popular and find audience so could new comic characters.

Like you said: not the same rules. Spider-man, Superman and Batman are from comics, not manga, and had Marvel and other big companies promoting and merchandising them into infinity. Most characters don't get this push, and unlike them the X-men are an ensemble that grows and it's really easy for mutants to get lost in the shuffle. There's about a dozen "Family" members to those groups, while X-men is more like the Avengers. There's hundreds of them, and the ones who creators like and who the companies think will sell the most get the larger priority because companies like making money. Of course, how they do this can be stupid and self defeating. Storm was underused in all her films, for instance. Halle Berry had to fight for more screen time, despite being Halle berry and her character being Storm.

It is understood that comic book fans are trained to be traditionalist, The big comic companies train you be like that because they make money on OLD and new stuff. Manga fans are more trained to seek out new good stuff, After you finished your favorite manga you probably started to seek out a new manga. Fans can be "trained" to appreciate new characters it just takes some effort by the publishers. Undoubtedly characters like Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm and Magneto are extremely popular and it is hard to imagine any character equaling or passing them BUT that status does apply to every older character in the franchise. And one of the biggest problem that exists for the X-men is that it treats Banshee, Colossus, Iceman, Havok, Dazzler, and Angel many other characters like they are those first group of characters or fail notice when characters like Beast, Nightcrawler, Gambit, Storm,Kitty or Rogue have grown stagnant in stories and need a long break. X-men books have spent too much time trying recapture old magic than trying create new magic with characters like Sunspot, M, Magik, AoA Blink, Moonstar or X-23 who are on cusp of bigger stardom.

You can make an argument that hey new characters can't surpass Wolverine and Clops but we have seen characters like Bishop, Gambit,Jubilee and Cable pass or equal Angel, Havok and Dazzler in popularity. We have seen Magik, X-23 and Emma Frost do the same as well in recent history. Magik is easily more popular than Colossus today and it is going to be even bigger after New mutants movie. Magik big growth came as member Bendis X-men run where fans got to see her as real X-man, Emma Frost growth came as member of Morrison X-men where fan got to see her as real X-man. For characters to catch on they need significant roles in significant stories and form significant relationships. The success of Emma and Magik partially comes from interactions with Cyclops. Magik has interesting friendship dynamic with Cyclops that can be explore in stories. No new character is catch on with out a hook to another main character, so every time you see new character put a team and in background it is pointless.

This is shaped by the direct market, something manga hasn't got holding it back. And the fact in the west reading comics is still something for children. Manga also has those anthologies like Shonen Jump - which is easier to get into other series and be given a nice chunk of stories for every series rather than 30 pages a month. And the cost is skyrocketing further and further. With popularity it's not really the comics being the final word, a comic character can be very popular in comics but be obscure to the public - like all the OG Avengers in the MCU, aside from Hulk.

Which is impacted by editorial, mandates and there is only so many pages they can produce at any given time. 90% of those characters won't be given much to do unless someone allows them too, and most of them will be wallpaper because it's not feasible for them to be stars in their own titles every month. Some are naturally more popular than others, too. Or many creators just flock to the ones they like.

This current era is doing a good job decentralizing the importance of the team "X-men" and focusing on the importance of the franchise "X-men" that is important to growth of characters because books like New Mutants, Marauders and X-force all are going to carry the big stories. And that is most important thing to growth of characters to grow to level of Cyclops/ Wolverine. In the past recipe was side X-men books built up recognition and a small base for new characters and then good run Uncanny and Adjective-less could build you into a star. The current era main X-men book is an kinda anthology with no team to feel like this is the REAL X-men and everyone else is small fries, So every book is a basically a main book giving smaller characters a chance to grow. This era will do more grow star quality characters than previous eras.

Is Dazzler really that popular? She never appears in other media, and she got a cameo in Dark Phoenix. I don't think she said a word in it. Angel's had a rough ride in the movies, every depiction juts keeps getting worse. Magik's been building for years since she came back, the movie is going to put her in the stratosphere. Emma Frost has been consistent with popularity for years, though her movie adaptions are pathetic. I don't think its Cyclops, many characters have had relationships with him and not become popular for it. It's not like he made Betsy Braddock a household name.
It's that they had creators who respected them, good stories and they were constantly in the spotlight. Emma Frost won't disappear from a 20 years and nobody notices. But I do agree that interesting character dynamics did help.

Characters can catch on if you do the right things.

True, but that's not universal. They're not going to make Adam X popular.

[Lapsus]

The problem with the x-men is his own strenght, too many main characters, is not sustanaible and fans deep down wants their favourite mutant to be the closest thing to a main character.

[Will Evans]

I’d like to point out that Idie and Frenzy really only got there push when Storm was with Cyclops side of the schism on Utopia, and they were on Wolverine’s side at the Jean Grey school in Westchester.

[Sutekh]

Frenzy? Monet? Cecelia Reyes?

I mean the answer is probably because the overwhelming majority of comic buyers/producers have been of caucasian origin. And their (un?)conscious biases towards that are reflected here. It is changing over time of course.

It's also complicated by gender, not just melanin. I'm so white I burst into flame if I spent too long in direct sunlight, but I'm *way* more of a fan of characters like Frenzy and Tempo than of Jean or Ilyanna.

Then again, I'm a dude, with no desire to 'identify with' or 'see myself in' these lady characters (and will admit that Cyclops, Madrox and Hellion, white dudes, are some of my favorite X-Males, and Nightcrawler, who is, I guess, the exception that proves the rule?).

And that's an issue with white *men* being the dominant audience for so long. We're fine with the occasional black or Asian woman like Storm or Psylocke or Jubilee running around, but gosh, Sunfire and Bishop sure don't have a chance. (Which also means those black or Asian women are quite often going to end up with white boyfriends like Wolverine or Angel, because there's rarely a black or Asian man around for them to hook up with.)

[Killerbee911]

The problem with the x-men is his own strenght, too many main characters, is not sustanaible and fans deep down wants their favourite mutant to be the closest thing to a main character.

Every fan wants to their to be a main character BUT editors job is to put book/comic line in best position to be success by putting out the best characters in books. If the new characters where allowed to grow in their books it would not be an issue aka If Gen X and New Mutants where allowed to grow some up and be used in meaningful stories and most fans wouldn't give a dam about keeping around less than optimal classic characters. But the push to keep characters evergreen keeps most of the homegrown talent from ever being stars.

Storm became a star in the X-men when she challenge Cyclops for leadership in the stories, Sunspot who fits all the criteria to be a lock for the Council on Krakoa still got treated like a teen by the creators.Sunspot could(still could become power player in space) if he was part of that mix. X-men might have to many characters but quality characters can never affect stories then for sure they will never be main characters. Hickman has done a great job of revitalizing the line but when the big meaningful story centers around Cyclops,Xavier, Magneto,Moria, Mr Sinister, White Queen and Apocy how will any other characters become a main character? Magik got the benefit playing major role in the Phoenix five as part of big meaningful story. And you see how she has progressed after that push.

How is someone different going to catch on when they don't get to do anything important. Council doesn't have anyone newer. The captains only have Magik, Kitty was made red queen and captain of the marauders. Beast and Wolverine lead X-force. Too many characters or not only the five represent meaning roles right now for newer characters. I trust Hickman and company but it is perfectly example how characters don't progress up. But X-swords might begin the change so I am not being too critical.

[Will Evans]

Remember when Pixie got a big push.

[Agent Z]

3. Stop making "relatable black characters" nobody reads comics to see themselves they go to see their idealized self. That's why Storm and Bishop stand out

Not everyone reads comics for the same reasons and what is or isn't relatable is in the eye of the beholder.

[Triniking1234]

Remember when Pixie got a big push.

Who?

100char

[danielsan52]

Remember when Pixie got a big push.

I remember!

pixie.jpg

lolz

[skyvolt2000]

Not everyone reads comics for the same reasons and what is or isn't relatable is in the eye of the beholder.

What does that even mean??

"Relatable black characters" it sound derogatory.

And where is the data to suppose that claim.

Folks were not going nuts over Black Panther because he was relatable. They were happy to finally see a movie with a black lead as the main start. Same with Miles, Static and Blade.

Because for the longest they got told NO. With reasons ranging from bigoted, racism, privilege and business reasons.

Our kids got tired of see white kids do whatever no matter how what with no excuse. Yet they saw excuses tossed out to them.


And Storm stands out so much-she has to get development in SOMEONE ELSE'S book.

She has 15 solo issues (ongoing and mini).

Most appearances in comics of any Marvel female.

Yet Moon Girl and Ms Marvel have more solo issues than her and both have not been around more than 9 years.

Moon Girl is the most successful solo black female among the big two. She did it with no variants, few very few guest stars and no events.

Ms Marvel will surpass Cassandra Cain as the most solo issues of an Asian character in November.

So what is the excuse for Storm? Monet? Even Bishop?

How many more Miles Morales starter kits are going to bypass them?

[Will Evans]

What does that even mean??

"Relatable black characters" it sound derogatory.

And where is the data to suppose that claim.

Folks were not going nuts over Black Panther because he was relatable. They were happy to finally see a movie with a black lead as the main start. Same with Miles, Static and Blade.

Because for the longest they got told NO. With reasons ranging from bigoted, racism, privilege and business reasons.

Our kids got tired of see white kids do whatever no matter how what with no excuse. Yet they saw excuses tossed out to them.


And Storm stands out so much-she has to get development in SOMEONE ELSE'S book.

She has 15 solo issues (ongoing and mini).

Most appearances in comics of any Marvel female.

Yet Moon Girl and Ms Marvel have more solo issues than her and both have not been around more than 9 years.

Moon Girl is the most successful solo black female among the big two. She did it with no variants, few very few guest stars and no events.

Ms Marvel will surpass Cassandra Cain as the most solo issues of an Asian character in November.

So what is the excuse for Storm? Monet? Even Bishop?

How many more Miles Morales starter kits are going to bypass them?

To play devil’s advocate,Miles, Moon Girl and Kamala were all created with solos in mind.

Storm, Bishop and Monet were all created as team players first and foremost.




Some characters like Moon Knight, Wolverine and Deadpool can transcend that and become solo characters. But even they were guest star characters first. Not team members.

[Woozie]

Every fan wants to their to be a main character BUT editors job is to put book/comic line in best position to be success by putting out the best characters in books. If the new characters where allowed to grow in their books it would not be an issue aka If Gen X and New Mutants where allowed to grow some up and be used in meaningful stories and most fans wouldn't give a dam about keeping around less than optimal classic characters. But the push to keep characters evergreen keeps most of the homegrown talent from ever being stars.

Storm became a star in the X-men when she challenge Cyclops for leadership in the stories, Sunspot who fits all the criteria to be a lock for the Council on Krakoa still got treated like a teen by the creators.Sunspot could(still could become power player in space) if he was part of that mix. X-men might have to many characters but quality characters can never affect stories then for sure they will never be main characters. Hickman has done a great job of revitalizing the line but when the big meaningful story centers around Cyclops,Xavier, Magneto,Moria, Mr Sinister, White Queen and Apocy how will any other characters become a main character? Magik got the benefit playing major role in the Phoenix five as part of big meaningful story. And you see how she has progressed after that push.

How is someone different going to catch on when they don't get to do anything important. Council doesn't have anyone newer. The captains only have Magik, Kitty was made red queen and captain of the marauders. Beast and Wolverine lead X-force. Too many characters or not only the five represent meaning roles right now for newer characters. I trust Hickman and company but it is perfectly example how characters don't progress up. But X-swords might begin the change so I am not being too critical.

This is just an unfortunate reality. Things have stagnated and most writers don't feel like pushing beyond that stagnation.

When you go beyond Giant Sized, who can you really say got a substantial push to be somebody?

Emma
Rogue
Gambit
Psylocke
X-23 (Wolverine's Daughter)
Magik (Colossus sister)

Some others like Pixie and Sunspot have gotten slight pushes for a time being, but nobody is ever given that consistent push to make them somebody rather than just a "Well They're there, I guess."

[MYCMTSC]

I'd say Magik got a push beyond just being Colossus' sister. Writers/editorial really took strides to make her happen with appearances outside of the X-Books, a central role in the revamped New Mutants, a radical redesign (including being one of three adult X-Men in a flagship), a big role in a crossover (AvX), one-shots, miniseries, and mini-events (X-Infernus).

It's very similar to how intentional Marvel was/is with Cable and Deadpool--the majority of these stories might be bad or mediocre, but we'll keep trying!

Would love to see the same effort into Monet who has a big horror family lore to explore, off-topic but Bishop who has time-traveling adventures in him as much as Cable.

That intent and follow through just has to be there.

[Killerbee911]

To play devil’s advocate,Miles, Moon Girl and Kamala were all created with solos in mind.

Storm, Bishop and Monet were all created as team players first and foremost.

Some characters like Moon Knight, Wolverine and Deadpool can transcend that and become solo characters. But even they were guest star characters first. Not team members.

I am sorry but what does that even mean. It is fiction you can add whatever a character needs the only advantage Moon Girl or Ms Marvel has over Storm. Is that they are a blank slate with no contradictory history. Meaning I can say Kamala is super genius and doctor and nobody says anything if I do the same for Storm there is some fight by audience to buy that narrative because of previous stories.

Literally the more successful soloish X-men like Gambit( Thief) Wolverine (Merc) Domino (Merc), Cable (Merc/Solider) X23(Merc) Bishop (Cop/Solider) . They have built in jobs and skills to supplement stories. The main X-men have had slight problems transitioning to solos because they aren't the traditional save the city heroes and X-men have never establish good jobs for Cyclops or Storm and many of other X-men.

Anyways all of this to say it just takes thoughtful understanding of the character of what direction to take them in a solo and how you are going to fill occupation slot. For example Shatterstar they made him apartment complex owner, Rictor they made him a bar owner. After that its not hard to fill out a support roles/villains then these characters have years of history and built in support cast the team book. Which puts them far ahead of Miles and Kamala who to this day don't have stable cast or rogue gallery.

Anyways awhile back Marvel decided to launch Aero and Swordmaster which was my opinion was dead on arrival. You can't sell me that a Storm or Cyclops solo book wasn't a better use of resources than those books. Worse case scenario you can do the X-men Red approach or even current X-men approach which is heavily spotlight single character in a team setting where the team carries the project when the solo character can't ala mission impossible or fast and furious franchises.