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  1. #1
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Question Why haven't any of the Black female X-men caught on other than Storm?

    This is sort of the companion thread to other one. The discussion in that thread reached probably as far as it is going go on that topic and bit of what would be in this topic start to spill into that thread. So I decided to start this topic as continuation of that topic and taking it other direction that was not being talk about because of how I limited the topic. Learning from the other thread I have made some adjustments that should make for a better thread

    1. This is a mini X-men Black female and other minorities appreciation topic so feel free to just talk about how much you like a certain character in this thread relevant to the topic. In other thread it was probably only time I have seen Shola or Triage on the forums mentioned so it is perfectly fine to highlight these some of these smaller characters. The best thing to come from other topic is general discussion of some these smaller characters so if nothing else comes this topic than Frenzy,Shard and Tempo appreciation fest then fine.

    2. Why not name it a appreciation Black female appreciation and other minorities thread ? Because appreciation threads have more positive approach and this thread at times will shred apart characters to focus on their flaws.

    3. But the title says Black female X-men That is what I wanted to focus on but how conversations works they are good parallels and points that comes from bringing up the treatment all minority characters so they should be part of discussion as well. So if you feel Hispanic/Latino, Asian,Indian, Arab, Indigenous American,etc is relevant to this topic bring them up when it is relevant but understand where the general focus of topic is going to end up. For example I am pretty sure that Moonstar is going to be a part of this discussion, Moonstar imo is the "spiritual successor" to Storm in the New Mutants(think about it she has both Goddess story and a unpowered period) why her momentum and progression got stop is big part of why some of these characters aren't successful.

    A Small list of Black female X-men(feel free to mention others I know I forgot some)

    M
    Blink
    Celia Reyes
    Oya
    Frenzy
    Bling
    Bloodstorm
    Khymera
    Tempo
    Shard
    Decay
    Cipher
    Locus
    Unveil
    Threnody
    Nicole and Claudette(Penance/Hollow)


    The questions

    1. The point might have true about the Male characters but is it true about the female characters? Is there a female black character you think has really caught on that makes this question not correct? Is there a female minority character other Storm and Jubilee that has really caught on?

    2. Is the love of Storm to blame for some of the lack success other characters? Does X-men franchise and fans lean to heavily on Storm as representation?

    3. Is there female minority character that you think is just some focus away from being successful mainstay? Which character if you had power to push would highlight and why is it important for that character to be highlighted?


    Anyways be nice to your fellow posters
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-12-2020 at 01:06 AM.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    I definitely don't think the love of Storm on the fans side is to blame. Unfortunately, I think many writers use Storm to fill a quota and thus don't feel the need to use other black women (or many other characters of color).

  3. #3
    Mighty Member superjosh's Avatar
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    I'll get into it more tomorrow (it's past my bed time!), but I loved what Mike Carey did with Frenzy. She was a hero in the Age of X reality (and was boning Cyclops/Basilisk) and after returning to the normal reality, she was like "I AM CHANGED AND I WANT TO FEEL LIKE THIS FOREVER". It was so good.

    But seriously, besides Storm and the oft-whitewashed Monet, there are just no other grown-up black female X-Men.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Because if the situation of men is bad, the situation of women is worse?
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Because if the situation of men is bad, the situation of women is worse?

  6. #6
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Blink is black?

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    Decay, Cipher should be added to the list . Also locus lol.

  8. #8
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I definitely don't think the love of Storm on the fans side is to blame. Unfortunately, I think many writers use Storm to fill a quota and thus don't feel the need to use other black women (or many other characters of color).
    I think you hit the nail on the head with that point, I was not trying to make it an attack on the character of the Storm or the fans BUT because Storm is such a good character and become an integral part of the X-men and is the one minority character that is grandfathered in as "classic" X-men she just gets thrown on to teams even if she isn't really the best fit. It is not her fault but she is easy choice because she is popular and accepted classic X-men so writers who aren't creative just put her on team because nobody would ever question Storm as the "quota" pick.

    I am so happy that Psylocke is not in the Asian body any more because Psylocke and Storm would be put on teams because clearly they are two most popular minority X-men characters. I was seriously rooting for Storm to join the Avengers for awhile so they can remove her as crutch for writers who aren't interested in developing her but use her on teams because she is "Storm".

    Since Psylocke has been turn back white there has been an effort imo to use the other Asian characters they have around like Kwannon, Karma, Jubilee, Armor, etc so we have seen something like that work in imo. Storm shouldn't have to leave the X-men or die for more black female characters to be used but considering a quota sort does exist in some form some time away could be good. I prefer the writers
    character selection to improve but when team selection goes like "I am picking the popular characters Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Rogue,etc okay I have pick someone diverse now to fill out my roster. Storm and Psylocke aren't around okay let me see who else is interesting" maybe Storm being away could be an good thing. Just to be clear I loved Storm and M interaction in HoX/PoX I would rather see more of that as the fix than Storm gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleo_Rage View Post
    Decay, Cipher should be added to the list . Also locus lol.
    I forgot about Cipher, I thought she had a good design.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-11-2020 at 04:11 AM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head with that point, I was not trying to make it an attack on the character of the Storm or the fans BUT because Storm is such a good character and become an integral part of the X-men and is the one minority character that is grandfathered in as "classic" X-men she just gets thrown on to teams even if she isn't really the best fit. It is not her fault but she is easy choice because she is popular and accepted classic X-men so writers who aren't creative just put her on team because nobody would ever question Storm as the "quota" pick.

    I am so happy that Psylocke is not in the Asian body any more because Psylocke and Storm would be put on teams because clearly they are two most popular minority X-men characters. I was seriously rooting for Storm to join the Avengers for awhile so they can remove her as crutch for writers who aren't interested in developing her but use her on teams because she is "Storm".

    Since Psylocke has been turn back white there has been an effort imo to use the other Asian characters they have around like Kwannon, Karma, Jubilee, Armor, etc so we have seen something like that work in imo. Storm shouldn't have to leave the X-men or die for more black female characters to be used but considering a quota sort does exist in some form some time away could be good. I prefer the writers
    character selection to improve but when team selection goes like "I am picking the popular characters Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Rogue,etc okay I have pick someone diverse now to fill out my roster. Storm and Psylocke aren't around okay let me see who else is interesting" maybe Storm being away could be an good thing. Just to be clear I loved Storm and M interaction in HoX/PoX I would rather see more of that as the fix than Storm gone.



    I forgot about Cipher, I thought she had a good design.
    This post doesn't make sense to me. The ONE popular black female should sit on the sidelines for a while in a franchise that has 4 to 5 books running at a time so other black femlaes can get a chance? Uhh.. why not add black females to some of these all white teams?

    Better yet why don't we do a reverse quota. No more than two white characters per team max. That should help a lot more than sidelining storm or any other character of color which we know for a fact also doesn't work.
    Last edited by jwatson; 08-11-2020 at 08:36 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Ooh, I'd love more of Monet, Bling!, Frenzy, Tempo and Cecelia Reyes, in particular!

    (Although I'm fond of Oya and Shard, as well.)

    Frenzy feels like she's best suited to step up (although Monet seems more popular), and would have had the best opportunity, IMO, back during that extended time pre-Whedon when Colossus was dead, and the team could use another 'tank' type. Even still, there's a half-dozen X-teams, and every team should have a tank, so she totally should be out there, punching faces and taking names.

    I love Monet, but at times, she feels like her personality has been replaced with Emma-Frost-lite, and that's not entirely it, IMO. Upper-class snark and haughty put-downs are fun, for awhile, but they aren't a great substitute for actual characterization.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post

    Frenzy feels like she's best suited to step up (although Monet seems more popular), and would have had the best opportunity, IMO, back during that extended time pre-Whedon when Colossus was dead, and the team could use another 'tank' type. Even still, there's a half-dozen X-teams, and every team should have a tank, so she totally should be out there, punching faces and taking names.
    Frenzy is a strange case because the X-men franchise over the years thrived on turning villains into beloved members and Frenzy had a perfect set up to be something interesting after Age of X. I mean even right now with Cyclops and Jean being more "free". Frenzy could be interesting piece in that confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I love Monet, but at times, she feels like her personality has been replaced with Emma-Frost-lite, and that's not entirely it, IMO. Upper-class snark and haughty put-downs are fun, for awhile, but they aren't a great substitute for actual characterization.
    With some characters they have to over do their personalities so that fans who don't get them and can quickly pick up who they are so until she becomes more permanent fixture her personality is going to be exaggerated. M was character that made wonder if the thread name is true because M looks to be in the process of catching on. She was on Adjectiveless all female X-men, X-factor, Weapon X ,and she got a little shine HoXPoX . She seems to be a Hickman favorite and the change to Penance feels like there is a story to be told there. I think she is very close to catching on the sell today use her is imagine if Emma Frost could turn Wolverine like character in combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    Blink is Asian, they mentioned Bling! the student with the diamond head
    Blink is black in the comics, In the recent Exiles her aunt was black. They clearly were drawing her with black features as well. She has always been from Barbados in comics. The TV show changed her name from Ferguson to Fong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I actually have a question for long time readers. What is Monet’s ethnic background and has she ever self-identified as black? When I started reading I assumed she was of Arab descent.
    Monet dad


    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-11-2020 at 04:44 AM.

  12. #12
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I definitely don't think the love of Storm on the fans side is to blame. Unfortunately, I think many writers use Storm to fill a quota and thus don't feel the need to use other black women (or many other characters of color).
    This. Why give the effort when you've got one who is widely popular yet they don't do much with her.

    Why couldn't Frenzy or Shard lead a team? Why isn't Blink, Celia Reyes or Locus on a team? Sadly no writers seems interested in using these characters other than fodder or background characters.


  13. #13
    Fantastic Member Criticalfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post

    2. Is the love of Storm to blame for some of the lack success other characters? Does X-men franchise and fans lean to heavily on Storm as representation?
    [/B]

    Anyways be nice to your fellow posters
    Storm uses up a lot of the air in a room.
    The Storm-love means she can't sit on the bench, so she has to be somewhere. The Storm-love is there because she was made awesome by many writers going back decades.
    I think that means whatever book she's in, she is going to get most if not all of the energy/panel count a writer can spare. She's Chekhov's POC.

    HOWEVER, there are usually eight-plus other books each month that don't have that reason/excuse. They could have their own Storm by now.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Criticalfan View Post
    Storm uses up a lot of the air in a room.
    The Storm-love means she can't sit on the bench, so she has to be somewhere. The Storm-love is there because she was made awesome by many writers going back decades.
    I think that means whatever book she's in, she is going to get most if not all of the energy/panel count a writer can spare. She's Chekhov's POC.

    HOWEVER, there are usually eight-plus other books each month that don't have that reason/excuse. They could have their own Storm by now.
    Pretty much this. Right now out of all the x-books Storm is only in ONE book so i really don't see how the love of storm could be effecting other black women from getting a book. Heck during morrison run storm was in Xtreme x-men, then for a point in time Storm wasn't in the x-books at all when married to BP and still there wasn't any panel time given to black women. This falls solely on the editors, writers, artist who get to design characters and the culture at marvel.
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  15. #15
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    To your overall question other black females haven't caught on because the xmen stories are primarily about white characters, with a few tokens here or there. I think Storm just so happens to be most popular because she was leader of the team during the period they were most post popular which was when Claremont saved the franchise from tanking with the introduction of Giant Size Xmen. Moreover, all the characters during this more popular period, including Phoenix saga, were white with the exception of storm.


    1. The point might have true about the Male characters but is it true about the female characters? Is there a female black character you think has really caught on that makes this question not correct? Is there a female minority character other Storm and Jubilee that has really caught on?

    The unfortunate answer here is no within the xoffices. This again is because the characters that have been given the primary focus are white. The xmen for years and even now have heavily centered around the white characters and their vision for mutantkind. Whether its Xavier/Magneto, the O5, phoenix/dark phoenix, Summers/Grey clan, Magneto Clan, Genosha, Utopia, Schism, Wolverine/Scott and even now with Xavier/Moira/Magneto, the white characters have mostly driven the majority of the xmen stories. We can't blame the characters for this as all the aforementioned is due to the creative minds behind the stories/events.

    2. Is the love of Storm to blame for some of the lack success other characters? Does X-men franchise and fans lean to heavily on Storm as representation?

    Does the love fans have for wolverine impede the lack of success for other white characters such as Emma, Jean, Cyclops, X-23, Kitty, Magneto, Lorna, Betsy. etc? There is room at the table for multiple black female characters to exist and thrive within the same book, as BP&C, World of Wakanda, and Tanehesi Coates Black Panther demonstrated. However, what i find to be the actual issue here and not a fanbase per say is that the creators/editors at the xoffices don't believe these types of stories will sell (whether factual or not) and ultimately go with what has worked in the past, which is to include predominantly white casts with occasional tokens included. In fact, often times the tokens including storm add nothing to the story and only serve as window dressing. All in all, a fanbase shouldn't be the one to blame for the lack of diversity both in stories and those who create them, especially when you consider these factors don't exist with white characters.

    3. Is there female minority character that you think is just some focus away from being successful mainstay? Which character if you had power to push would highlight and why is it important for that character to be highlighted?


    Is there a non-white (I do not think the term minority is appropriate as when you consider white people when looking at the world population are in fact the minority) female character that is close to this?? Most certainly. The one that immediately pops up is Monet but I would like to go back to my second point, why settle for increasing focus around one or two black female characters? When we get beyond the point where an all black cast is viewed as racist and is considered just as viable an option as an all-white cast to the xoffices then I believe a lot of the points presented in the OP can truly be addressed.
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