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  1. #31
    Fantastic Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleo_Rage View Post
    We not starting this mess. .Monet is Black, her sisters Nicole and Claudette are Black and her ugly ass bro is Black. Black folks come in many shades with various features and hair textures. Next caller!

    Pathway and even goblyn from beta flight should be used more. Pathway powers on par with Yana but we don’t hear from her. Also there is the depowered Hub.
    I wonder if Pathway's Autism could be cured with the combination of Elixir's and Professor X's powers? If not, I don't think we'll ever see these twins again. They would use Blink, Gateway or Locus before Laura Dean again.
    Sad that Laura and Goblyn are the rare case of same sex mutant twins running around Marvel.
    Also sad that some many black girls who are powerful teleporters are not being used instead of those gates, which should never be used in hostile environments.

  2. #32
    Spectacular Member Leirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Out of curiosity, what features would be evidently Algerian?
    Algerians are mostly arabized berbers, so they look like southern europeans or a tad darker, even more so to the south of the country. Black people face strong prejudice in Algeria, sadly. I think M was intended at first as a non white person but not exactly black. But it is so very difficult for americans to get north africans right. They either draw them black or fully white. The last instance, Jetstream in Hellions.

  3. #33
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    But do we even need to cure it. I think in our current climate they can tell a story about being neuro divergent. Autistic people are able to be heroes and villains, etc. I think across the board the depiction of autism in comics has been poor and they need to get a comic book writer on the spectrum if possible to write a compelling story about autism and mutancy. At the very least they need a consultant to tell explain to writers the best ways to depict these characters. WE have 3 autistic Black mutants: Pathway, one of the M twins, and Lil Bro. I find that very, very interesting that we have so many autistic Black mutants despite having so few Black mutants.

  4. #34
    Fantastic Member Criticalfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post

    2. Is the love of Storm to blame for some of the lack success other characters? Does X-men franchise and fans lean to heavily on Storm as representation?
    [/B]

    Anyways be nice to your fellow posters
    Storm uses up a lot of the air in a room.
    The Storm-love means she can't sit on the bench, so she has to be somewhere. The Storm-love is there because she was made awesome by many writers going back decades.
    I think that means whatever book she's in, she is going to get most if not all of the energy/panel count a writer can spare. She's Chekhov's POC.

    HOWEVER, there are usually eight-plus other books each month that don't have that reason/excuse. They could have their own Storm by now.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criticalfan View Post
    Storm uses up a lot of the air in a room.
    The Storm-love means she can't sit on the bench, so she has to be somewhere. The Storm-love is there because she was made awesome by many writers going back decades.
    I think that means whatever book she's in, she is going to get most if not all of the energy/panel count a writer can spare. She's Chekhov's POC.

    HOWEVER, there are usually eight-plus other books each month that don't have that reason/excuse. They could have their own Storm by now.
    Pretty much this. Right now out of all the x-books Storm is only in ONE book so i really don't see how the love of storm could be effecting other black women from getting a book. Heck during morrison run storm was in Xtreme x-men, then for a point in time Storm wasn't in the x-books at all when married to BP and still there wasn't any panel time given to black women. This falls solely on the editors, writers, artist who get to design characters and the culture at marvel.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head with that point, I was not trying to make it an attack on the character of the Storm or the fans BUT because Storm is such a good character and become an integral part of the X-men and is the one minority character that is grandfathered in as "classic" X-men she just gets thrown on to teams even if she isn't really the best fit. It is not her fault but she is easy choice because she is popular and accepted classic X-men so writers who aren't creative just put her on team because nobody would ever question Storm as the "quota" pick.

    I am so happy that Psylocke is not in the Asian body any more because Psylocke and Storm would be put on teams because clearly they are two most popular minority X-men characters. I was seriously rooting for Storm to join the Avengers for awhile so they can remove her as crutch for writers who aren't interested in developing her but use her on teams because she is "Storm".

    Since Psylocke has been turn back white there has been an effort imo to use the other Asian characters they have around like Kwannon, Karma, Jubilee, Armor, etc so we have seen something like that work in imo. Storm shouldn't have to leave the X-men or die for more black female characters to be used but considering a quota sort does exist in some form some time away could be good. I prefer the writers
    character selection to improve but when team selection goes like "I am picking the popular characters Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Rogue,etc okay I have pick someone diverse now to fill out my roster. Storm and Psylocke aren't around okay let me see who else is interesting" maybe Storm being away could be an good thing. Just to be clear I loved Storm and M interaction in HoX/PoX I would rather see more of that as the fix than Storm gone.



    I forgot about Cipher, I thought she had a good design.
    This post doesn't make sense to me. The ONE popular black female should sit on the sidelines for a while in a franchise that has 4 to 5 books running at a time so other black femlaes can get a chance? Uhh.. why not add black females to some of these all white teams?

    Better yet why don't we do a reverse quota. No more than two white characters per team max. That should help a lot more than sidelining storm or any other character of color which we know for a fact also doesn't work.
    Last edited by jwatson; 08-11-2020 at 08:36 AM.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    This post doesn't make sense to me. The ONE popular black female should sit on the sidelines for a while in a franchise that has 4 to 5 books running at a time so other black femlaes can get a chance? Uhh.. why not add black females to some of these all white teams?

    Better yet why don't we do a reverse quota. No more than two white characters per team max. That should help a lot more than sidelining storm or any other character of color which we know for a fact also doesn't work.
    I am all for less white characters on these books. I am tired of the same old same. We have so many Black, Brown, Asian and Indigenous characters that are dope, should be in movies, in videos and on cartoons.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    This post doesn't make sense to me. The ONE popular black female should sit on the sidelines for a while in a franchise that has 4 to 5 books running at a time so other black femlaes can get a chance? Uhh.. why not add black females to some of these all white teams?

    Better yet why don't we do a reverse quota. No more than two white characters per team max. That should help a lot more than sidelining storm or any other character of color which we know for a fact also doesn't work.
    DC doesn't have an issue with doing it. When was the last time you saw Vixen or Bumblebee?

    And you KNOW what will happen if word gets out about a quota on white folks. Even though we know there is a need for it because some books don't need to shoehorn certain folks into everything (Logan, Jean, Emma & Scott looking at yall).

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleo_Rage View Post
    I am all for less white characters on these books. I am tired of the same old same. We have so many Black, Brown, Asian and Indigenous characters that are dope, should be in movies, in videos and on cartoons.
    Me too. It would also completely kill that excuse about "But story" if you go into your pitch knowing there is a 2 white character per limit quota i guarantee you somehow those stories will "naturally evolve" and writers won't have any problem breaking out the research and adding some diversity.

    I have always hated that excuse as writers should write what they want. It's not like they are doing a book at a KKK rally so what about the story prevents any writer from adding diversity.
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  10. #40
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    These are Good Conversations. Real Good.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    DC doesn't have an issue with doing it. When was the last time you saw Vixen or Bumblebee?

    And you KNOW what will happen if word gets out about a quota on white folks. Even though we know there is a need for it because some books don't need to shoehorn certain folks into everything (Logan, Jean, Emma & Scott looking at yall).
    Sometimes the other has to be a little uncomfortable but if better wording is needed how about. No more than 30% of any team can be one race. So in a team of 7 that means 2.1 can be white. That sounds fair to me.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    This post doesn't make sense to me. The ONE popular black female should sit on the sidelines for a while in a franchise that has 4 to 5 books running at a time so other black femlaes can get a chance? Ugh.. why not add black females to some of these all white teams?

    Better yet why don't we do a reverse quota. No more than two white characters per team max. That should help a lot more than sidelining storm or any other character of color which we know for a fact also doesn't work.
    Removing Storm wouldn't be my first option but I am just operating under flaw thinking process that I see happening that has about one black or brown character per team. 100% percent agree adding more is the proper solution but reality is the "popular" or "essential" xmen are white and that is excuse to use them over other characters. But it also creates the self fulling prophecy that popular characters are white.

    Going by their system only way to break that process is swap out Storm, Hopefully the characters becomes popular during that run. When it is time pick a new roster that character can arguably be said to be used over a popular character. Basically you need to make characters as popular as the instant adds like Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean, Rogue, Beast. The X franchise had two in Storm and Asian Betsy with Bishop and Jubilee being close.

    That is fundamental problem with X-roster creation the O5 and anad/ blue/ gold/ animated roster are near instant adds leaving very few spots. And to breakthrough as legitimate character you need a run on legitimate big books and stories.

    The road for success is Monet or Cecilia Reyes get used in new classic like E for Exiction or House of X have a decent run. Get seen as essential X-man and when it new Roster time you can say Wolverine or Cyclops can sit out better yet Beast or Angel because M and CeCe are arguably as popular. You can stick minorities characters in the side books until the cows come home it won't matter. If you want to make big time characters they have to put in big time stories in the main books.

    Storm instantly gets importance and spot,Yes they should just add more minorities but going by what happens they are only few spots. And as a X-men fan can't argue that Magento, Cyclops, Wolverine, Xavier and Jean aren't nearly instant adds that sell books. Beast is near instant add because he is Swiss army knife for exposition. Do you see the issue?
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-11-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Removing Storm wouldn't be my first option but I am just operating under flaw thinking process that I see happening that has about one black or brown character per team. 100% percent agree adding more is the proper solution but reality is the "popular" or "essential" xmen are white and that is excuse to use them over other characters. But it also creates the self fulling prophecy that popular characters are white.

    Going by their system only way to break that process is swap out Storm, Hopefully the characters becomes popular during that run. When it is time pick a new roster that character can arguably be said to be used over a popular character. Basically you need to make characters as popular as the instant adds like Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean, Rogue, Beast. The X franchise had two in Storm and Asian Betsy with Bishop and Jubilee being close.

    That is fundamental problem with X-roster creation the O5 and blue/ gold/ animated roster are near instant adds leaving very few spots. And to breakthrough as legitimate character you need a run on legitimate big books and stories.

    The road for success is Monet or Cecilia Reyes get used in new classic like E for Exiction or House of X have a decent run. Get seen as essential X-man and when it new Roster time you can say Wolverine or Cyclops can sit out better yet Beast or Angel because M and CeCe are arguably as popular. You can stick minorities characters in the side books until the cows come home it won't matter. If you want to make big time characters they have to put in big time stories in the main books.

    Storm instantly gets importance and spot,Yes they should just add more minorities but going by what happens they are only few spots. And as a X-men fan can't argue that Magento, Cyclops, Wolverine, Xavier and Jean aren't nearly instant adds that sell books. Beast is near instant add because he is Swiss army knife for exposition. Do see the issue?
    The solution still makes no sense to me. You take Storm out and as you said the other white characters are still seen as popular so what's to say if you ad Monet and Cecilia and they become popular that they would add any other black character let alone even bring Storm back when they can now say we have a new more modern popular black character. In this case it makes more sense to subtract white members from a team or limit the amount of members per race on the team to a percentage of like 30% or so the team has a more even break down and characters of color are able to get a chance to stand along side the supposed "popular" white characters. It seems like a case of shooting yourself in the foot to try to solve a problem and hoping that will change things because...
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  14. #44
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Me too. It would also completely kill that excuse about "But story" if you go into your pitch knowing there is a 2 white character per limit quota i guarantee you somehow those stories will "naturally evolve" and writers won't have any problem breaking out the research and adding some diversity.

    I have always hated that excuse as writers should write what they want. It's not like they are doing a book at a KKK rally so what about the story prevents any writer from adding diversity.
    Interesting authors are also interested by showing the humanity in all its diversity. Also, when people from all the world were enrolled in the X-men, it was a way of saying: “Xavier’s message, dream was universal.” I prefer authors that believe in what they do rather than obeying to quotas.

    Of course, eventually, they don’t make comics for themselves. So, in my opinion, it’s between the editor and the author: comics need to be read and the readership, satisfied.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Interesting authors are also interested by showing the humanity in all its diversity. Also, when people from all the world were enrolled in the X-men, it was a way of saying: “Xavier’s message, dream was universal.” I prefer authors that believe in what they do rather than obeying to quotas.

    Of course, eventually, they don’t make comics for themselves. So, in my opinion, it’s between the editor and the author: comics need to be read and the readership, satisfied.
    So if you owned a business and you knew there was an under served segment of people with money that could increase your bottom line you would tell your employees to do what they believe in rather than to adjust your business practice to increase your wealth and serve all customers better?
    Last edited by jwatson; 08-11-2020 at 09:50 AM.
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