All New X-Factor 12 Preview (Spoilers)

[El Sombrero]

Great scene, looking forward to reading this. Carmine is a machine, it's crazy this title has STILL not seen a fill-in. I know there is one soon but no-fill ins in a year, with a bunch of issues double-shipped in one month, that's unheard of today.

[fod_xp]

EDIT: Aaaand I see fod_xp got the scan of Lorna's quote and posted it shortly before my post. Timing! It happens.

It's those Summers Brothers crapping all over the good things in their lives. Havok ditching Lorna for that ***** Nurse Annie, and then later ditching Polaris for the Avengers and then sending her estranged half brother to covertly spy on her.

The only reason I am still mad at Scott is he strangled Emma Frost at the end of AvX. I don't really much give a damn about the rest. That was the Rubicon for me in terms of Scott losing my love for him. He broke Emma's heart, and to be honest, mine.

[salarta]

Great scene, looking forward to reading this. Carmine is a machine, it's crazy this title has STILL not seen a fill-in. I know there is one soon but no-fill ins in a year, with a bunch of issues double-shipped in one month, that's unheard of today.

It's a definite testament to his ability to maintain quality with endurance. Most of the time if you have a ton of projects at once, or have to do a lot of work in a short time frame, things get sloppy because creative work is no different than any other activity. It could also be a sign of how much he loves working on ANXF, because it's easier to keep plugging away if it's something you're fully absorbed in, but even that has limits on how much a person can handle before they need a break.

I'd also have to say the same for Peter David since ANXF #7, and I think in terms of ensuring quality, it's harder for writers than artists. Artists, you can look at a picture and see what's wrong right away, usually as you're doing it. You can get a little of that with writing, but by and large it's really difficult to just see it immediately if there's a problem. As amazing as art can be, a person could also take a glance at it and absorb it, while you have to devote more time to looking at and thinking about story.

It's those Summers Brothers crapping all over the good things in their lives. Havok ditching Lorna for that ***** Nurse Annie, and then later ditching Polaris for the Avengers and then sending her estranged half brother to covertly spy on her.

The only reason I am still mad at Scott is he strangled Emma Frost at the end of AvX. I don't really much give a damn about the rest. That was the Rubicon for me in terms of Scott losing my love for him. He broke Emma's heart, and to be honest, mine.

I kind of think Pietro would've wanted to join X-Factor anyway regardless of whether or not Alex asked Pietro to spy on Lorna for him, purely because of what happened during X-Factor #260. Actually, do we know for sure that Alex first proposed Pietro joining X-Factor? I don't have the issues in front of me to look at old ones, but I think it's possible Pietro could've suggested his joining the team and Alex attached a request/demand for Pietro to include spying and reporting back. Possibly in exchange for the Avengers on standby to provide funding or support if something went awry.

I'd still like to see Nurse Annie around on ANXF as a supporting character. I think the dynamic between them could be pretty amusing now that Alex is out of the picture for both of them. I also know Peter David's liked using less appreciated characters, and the common consensus toward Annie seems to be hatred. Getting people to like her would be an interesting challenge for a writer.

AvX was a bad event in execution the whole way, as far as I saw. The base concept was a cool one with a lot of promise, but that promise succumbed to crap like ignoring important character relationships and dynamics for no reason (Lorna as part of the Magnus family, Havok as Cyclops' brother, Rachel as a past host of the Phoenix Force, etc), and turning the two pivotal women of the event into vulnerable trophies for the men to fight over.

[Andru]

Character attitudes toward other characters, teams and events can be, and are, dictated by how the executives, editors and writers feel about Marvel and everything in it. We've all seen plenty of cases where a character that some guy hates gets treated like crap just because the person writing said character has no respect for them or their fans. Children's Crusade, Avengers vs X-Men and from the looks of it Axis all exclude Lorna even though all three objectively should include her. That's human beings, working on a product to sell, letting biases decide where characters are allowed to be instead of letting the characters' history and values dictate that for them.

We then end up with excuses forcibly written in for why a character can't do this thing or that thing, such as how obvious it was that the sides chosen in Regenesis were determined by editorial mandate before any thought went into story and character reasons. That's the one big, glaring fault I see in Marvel's books at the moment: holding personal and business motives in higher regard than what fits the story and characters.

I am not sure what our points have to do with one another?

I was pointing out the fact that sales numbers in the real world do not affect the viewpoints of fictional characters. You seem to be focused on a writer's personal feelings and the effect it has on their writing of a certain character.

These are two unrelated things.

[Purplevit]

Great scene, looking forward to reading this. Carmine is a machine, it's crazy this title has STILL not seen a fill-in. I know there is one soon but no-fill ins in a year, with a bunch of issues double-shipped in one month, that's unheard of today.

Carmine is an awesome machine. 12 issues in row is HUGE result. Love his art!

[salarta]

I am not sure what our points have to do with one another?

I was pointing out the fact that sales numbers in the real world do not affect the viewpoints of fictional characters. You seem to be focused on a writer's personal feelings and the effect it has on their writing of a certain character.

These are two unrelated things.

It looks like I might have done a poor job with being clear on what I was saying, and that caused my post to seem unrelated. I'll try to be clearer this time.

Your statement, playful intent, was that you doubt characters judge their worthiness based on sales figures because it's not like the characters know they're in a book and how well it's selling. However, what I'm saying is that the person writing the characters DOES know the sales figures, and as a consequence, he or she can decide to write the characters saying certain lines that are based in what the writer knows about perception and sales figures of the book in the real world. Sales figures, among many many other things like I detailed in my post you quoted, can determine everything a character says and thinks. The people at Marvel with power over the character have complete control over what happens, and that can be very much informed by perceived value. Deadpool can go from obscure side character to major player in a decade purely because of sales figures.

tl;dr: sales numbers in the real world affect the viewpoints of fictional characters because the writer can write them to have certain viewpoints because of those sales figures.

Though if we want to be extremely literal about this, some old Marvel comics such as some She-Hulk issues have revealed that the exact same comics we read exist in the Marvel universe and are treated like news releases of what the various heroes and groups are doing. So theoretically, All-New X-Factor exists as an ongoing in the Marvel universe, and that ongoing is selling at the same level as the real world.

[Rivka]

I love this preview! That was "meta" indeed! I can only hope this means the discussion between Havok and Pietro mirrors the discussions between editors and writers, and Quicksilver gets to stay in X-FACTOR for as long as PAD wants to write him. Everything Pietro and Havok said resonated with the real-world and made me feel quite satisfied. Alex is just incapable of thinking through the consequences of his behavior and words; that's been the consistent portrayal over in UNCANNY AVENGERS and for years before that. But Pietro has been very self-centered and lacking in empathy, too. This is character-growth for Quicksilver. I like to think that this is the result of him being with his other sister, as he says; he needs to take care of a sister, kind of his thing since the 1960s.

I love Carmine's art so much! I hope people pre-order this issue and kick-up the numbers. (Although I buy digitally these days, so I don't know that the Diamond List is as valid any more.)

This is the kind of writing starring the Magnus Family that I've been waiting for, for years. Can't wait to read the entire comic.

[Andru]

It looks like I might have done a poor job with being clear on what I was saying, and that caused my post to seem unrelated. I'll try to be clearer this time.

Your statement, playful intent, was that you doubt characters judge their worthiness based on sales figures because it's not like the characters know they're in a book and how well it's selling. However, what I'm saying is that the person writing the characters DOES know the sales figures, and as a consequence, he or she can decide to write the characters saying certain lines that are based in what the writer knows about perception and sales figures of the book in the real world. Sales figures, among many many other things like I detailed in my post you quoted, can determine everything a character says and thinks. The people at Marvel with power over the character have complete control over what happens, and that can be very much informed by perceived value. Deadpool can go from obscure side character to major player in a decade purely because of sales figures.

tl;dr: sales numbers in the real world affect the viewpoints of fictional characters because the writer can write them to have certain viewpoints because of those sales figures.

Though if we want to be extremely literal about this, some old Marvel comics such as some She-Hulk issues have revealed that the exact same comics we read exist in the Marvel universe and are treated like news releases of what the various heroes and groups are doing. So theoretically, All-New X-Factor exists as an ongoing in the Marvel universe, and that ongoing is selling at the same level as the real world.

I understood your point, I am just not buying into it. I completely agree that the writers and editors determine the character's personality & actions. No denying that. However, I do not believe that Peter David saw the sales figures for ANXF and decided to have Alex refer to X-Factor as a "B-Team" because those sales aren't as high as Uncanny Avengers. No writer in their right mind would diminish the value of their characters because the sales on their title aren't doing as great as they would like. That's self sabotage.

[Neko]

Salarta – that is an interesting take you got going on there with the characters being written with sales in mind because the writers do - I don't agree. I think all that was being said, was the fourth wall was not going to be broken by things fans know. And I can't subscribe to the idea that characters are written with sales figures of their books in mind. They aren't real and it doesn't matter. As for what Havok said, he was clearly being egotistical and just assumed that QS would want to be on a hero team instead of one that has been hired. A team that may or may not help humanity because they are not paid to do so.

Are characters written with attitudes and have egos in regards to what they do, sure. I see that. Havok thinks his team is superior to X-Factor because of goals. IMO.

I think writers write the stories they think will be entertaining and hope that fans like what they have written. Do they worry about sales, sure. Do they make it apart of a character's personality trait, I don't think so. Just my view though.

As for the preview, not bad. I'm glad QS walked out on Havok.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Being fair to Alex though you can't blame him for the wedding at all, that was all Austen putting himself and his family into the comics, leaving Lorna as the odd woman out...now though PAD seems intent on making Alex look as bad as possible as often as possible. Remender is using Alex as his mouthpiece and PAD seems to have HATED Alex for awhile now. Alex is being written badly to make Pietro and the team look better, in truth this X-Factor is a B team no matter how many fans think otherwise.

[jmc247]

Sales figures, among many many other things like I detailed in my post you quoted, can determine everything a character says and thinks.

Not sales I believe, but position in the franchise (which is tangentially connected to sales, but its not quite the same thing). X-Factor has long been the fringe child of the core X-Men titles (it was when I started reading X-Factor in 1991 and it is now) and the X-Men are now the lesser players to the Avengers so we are talking about a satellite title of a franchise that is no longer what it used to be to Marvel. So, Havok's new position as leader of the king of the Marvel comic franchises is being contrasted with Quicksilver and his position on an obscure satellite title/team few people outside of hard core x-fans have heard of.

[Mikekerr3]

Wow, PAD really makes Havok look bad, bad-mouthing his old team and being a mouthpiece for the Avengers. Pandering to the X-fan base? Maybe, but it's fun.

If e wrote Havok as anything but a a**, he would be working against all the character development that Remeder has put into Havok He is righting the same Alex as Remeder is.

[Mikekerr3]

That is true. Well how about this: X-Factor is a B-Team in universe because it's the new team on the block. It isn't a proven, tried and true team like the Avengers or the Fantastic Four...and it's mostly comprised of mutants, which given the mutant prejudice, is a big negative.

But the X-factor can be depended on not to work against the mutant population, that can hardly be said for the Avengers. Fewer conflicts of interest.

[Neko]

Nevermind, I wasted my time. Nothing to see here.

[remydat]

If Alex was only concerned about being the creepy ex-boyfriend then he would have wanted Pietro to continue to spy on Lorna. Instead, he was initially worried about Lorna as prior to being given the leadership mantle she was going through some tough shit and quite frankly was not handling it really well. And early on in her leadership she was seemingly reckless and out of control to the point some of her fans were getting upset with PAD about it and threatening to drop the book.

So not sure how a guy who supposedly cares about someone wouldn't want to keep an eye on her. Furthermore, since that initial concern which again was fully justified IMO, Lorna's leadership has stabilized to the point where Havok now thinks his initial fears are no longer warranted so he like a reasonable person is telling Pietro that he can stop spying on her because Lorna has proven she can take care of herself and is fine.

The irony here is Pietro is doing the very thing that people were hating on Gambit and Havok for doing earlier in the book. The only difference is Gambit and Havok had legit reasons to feel like they needed to look out for Lorna and were criticized for it while Pietro is being praised for doing the very same thing but with less justification. Seems a bit unfair that apparently the only person allowed to have a seemingly patronizing attitude towards Lorna is Quicksilver. Or rather that he gets the benefit of the doubt for his wanting to watch out for her being sincere while Gambit and Havok apparently were just being sexist earlier in the run.

As for the other bit about X-factor being the B team. They are. Not from a sales perspective but from the perspective of they are a new relatively unknown team. There is nothing wrong with Alex pointing that out and wondering why QS would want to stay with them.