Why do people hate Ultimate Marvel?

[TheMaker1610]

Even worse... Infamous Iron Man was building that (a good Dr. Doom vs. an evil Reed Richards), but then they changed it so that the Maker was not really the Maker but just an illusion of the real villain, Mephisto.

LOL ! That was so idiotic.. smh

[Tony Stark]

Well, yeah.. The Divided We Fall / United We Stand arc was.. not bad, but compared to what Hickman's was building it felt extremelly underwhelming (also.. every single thing that Hickman was building was flat out ignored.. how come you ignore 1/3 of Europe being wiped out? lmao)

The Kratos Club was intriguing, and would've loved to see more of it ! Sadly they werent seen or mentioned again after issue #6 iirc (they got mentioned and probably killed off-screen in Fialkov's UFF, but eh.. that book was so bad that I consider it non-canon, heh ! )

In agreement here. Lots of missed opportunities. Although maybe Humphries wouldn’t of done fleshing them out like Hickman would.

[Iron Maiden]

Even worse... Infamous Iron Man was building that (a good Dr. Doom vs. an evil Reed Richards), but then they changed it so that the Maker was not really the Maker but just an illusion of the real villain, Mephisto.

I have to agree.....that really didn't turn out well IMO. I have to wonder if since more than likely Bendis was already preparing for his departure from Marvel if this was some way for him to wind things up quickly. I had always thought that Infamous Iron Man was going to be a longer series and things were wound up rather quickly esp with that switch over to Mephisto.

In one issue, Bendis spends a couple of pages of the Maker trying to convince Ben that he is their Reed by recounting a few memories of Negative Zone and Annihilus but Ben still wasn't buying it. It was interesting to see how confused this made Ben and Johnny when Ben told him he met Reed, or someone that tried to convince Ben that he was Reed. This was that strange situation after Secret Wars where Ben and Johnny returned to Earth but Reed and the others didn't. This was also the same way Zdarsky treated the situation in Marvel Two in 1 with Ben and Johnny. Judging from this story, they didn't reunite with Reed and Sue and had no idea where they were. Bendis also threw in that doppleganger of Victor's mother and it looked like she and the Maker had something going on there which would have really freaked Doom out. It was much more interesting to see what the Maker was planning but then Bendis dropped that and suddenly threw Mephisto in there.

[Will Evans]

Evil Reed Maker vs Good Doom Iron Man was what I was looking forward to. I thought that was the comics endgame for Infamous Iron Man. I was sadly mistaken.

[Kurolegacy]

Evil Reed Maker vs Good Doom Iron Man was what I was looking forward to. I thought that was the comics endgame for Infamous Iron Man. I was sadly mistaken.

God that plot twist revealing it to be Mephisto was dumb. Like, why create so much buildup for one thing only to pull a complete left turn at the finish line? Plus it was a perfect reversal of their usual dynamic so I don’t know what Bendis was thinking.

[Zelena]

I wouldn’t say I “hate” Ultimate Marvel comics… I only read the ones with the X-men.

I would say thas in these comics, the characters are more cynical than the usual ones and then I found them uninteresting. An exercice in style more than anything else.

[Dboi2001]

I think they use Vlad the Impaler in Romania to gin up the tourism industry. Notoriety makes money too and he is not respected for his sainthood.

They certainly respect him as much as people respect a political historical figure like how Americans respect George Washington or English respect King Charles I

When did I say that Victor Van Damme was born evil? In both instances, the young Victors were basically good children. Victor Van Damme had a cruel and abusive father. Werner von Doom was a respected healer and loved his family. He gave his life to save his son from freezing to death.

You mentioned he was literally born with evil in him but again I’d argue Von Doom was more like that. Also we don’t see much of Van Damme’s childhood the first time it’s his father telling him how they’re decedents of Dracula and the second time was Damme reciting his family linage. For all we know Van Damme was a little **** but even then the scenes focus less on him and the general callous of his father. Regardless like I mentioned different does not mean bad

I think the only thing supernatural about Victor Van Damme were the goat legs since Lucifer is depicted in some older works with goat legs. Some people thought that goats were familairs used in black magic.

There was nothing “supernatural” about 1610 doom because he used science rather than magic to gain his powers. Even his metal skin and legs were a result of science

In the long run Ultimate Magneto and Ultimate Doom faded away into obscurity. We never even got any follow up on them after the final incurion between Earth Prime and Earth 1610. I'd be surprised if they ever show up again.

Again the point of ultimate marvel was never to replace the originals. At first it was to tell a modern interpretation of classic heroes then after that it became “how goofy can we make this ****?” Like so many things happened there that would never happen in 616 marvel. Colossus being gay, Captain America becoming president, the Fantastic Four disbanding, Reed becoming the Maker and a lot of key heroes dying off for good. 1610 Magneto and Doom were never going to replace the classic because they’re too iconic. Really the only remnants of the ultimate universe is Miles Morales

I think it would have made for a better story if Ultimate Doom had rebelled and done away with his father on the sly. It could account for him getting control of the estate, etc.

I guess so though it really wasn’t that important

But as I said earlier, the writers after Ellis abandoned the shanty town set up and later appearances he starts to become more and more like MU Doom. IMO they were conceding that the 1610 concept failed. They even stopped showing the goat legs for a while although they did bring them back in that final volume. That version was a bit on the crazy side too, almost comically so.

What do you mean abandoned? After Reed destroyed the tattoos Doom lost his followers. It was a logical progression.

Are you sure he had any control over his transformation? I don't think it was ever mentioned.

Yes in his monologue he did have control over his transformation. He intended the transporter to go “wrong” because the way it worked was it pulls the subject into the N Zone and pulls out one of infinite versions of them on the other end. In one panel it actually showed that Reed could’ve turned into Man Thing and Sue into the Thing. Doom changed Reed’s calculations so he could gain his powers so he did have control

as for you point about Dr Doom being a polymath I still disagree that in a more realistic setting like that Ultimate universe was going for at first Doom deciding to become a monk and get actual powers is a little far out.

[Will Evans]

Ultimate Marvel has some highs and lows.

Examples-
Highs: Miles Morales as Ultimate Spider-man


Lows: Tyrone Cash as Ultimate Hulk

[Dboi2001]

Ugh. what terrible writing.

First off again Jean was 19

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Second I don’t think they actually had sex since Wolverine told Jean he was sent to kill Xavier

[Triniking1234]

Nah. Someone proved the Logan and Jean had sex in this thread already.

Actually, yes, Wolverine and Jean having sex did happen.

[Dboi2001]

Nah. Someone proved the Logan and Jean had sex in this thread already.

later on in the same book Jean attacks Logan because he told her he was suppose to kill Xavier, so they may not have had sex

[Triniking1234]

later on in the same book Jean attacks Logan because he told her he was suppose to kill Xavier, so they may not have had sex

Oh you mean the scene where she's throwing him around with her TK? Makes sense.

[Will Evans]

later on in the same book Jean attacks Logan because he told her he was suppose to kill Xavier, so they may not have had sex

Post-coital telekinesis