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  1. #1

    Default Is DC Metaverse non-canon?

    In Justice League 39, it is revealed Doomsday Clock happened in a different reality than the current canon.

    That would mean Earth-1985, Earth-2 and Earth-52 are not the actual Pre-Crisis Earth-1, Earth-2 and New 52 but rather duplicates because they split off of Metaverse, which is a different reality than the current canon. They would probably be nigh-identical to their main canon incarnations, but they would be seperate.

    Also, speaking of current canon, is DC Rebirth the same timeline as Pre-Flashpoint or is it a combination of both New 52 and Pre-Flashpoint (at least currently)?

    Is it safe to say when the timeline changes, the universe doean't split off in the current canon (unlike the metaverse)? There are versions of characters from Pre-Flashpoint running around like Superman (I think Pre-Flashpoint Superman is a part of Rebirth version) and Wally IIRC. Ia it safe to say Pre-Flaspoint world is erased?

    Also, what happened to the multiverse (including their Earth-2 and Earth-1) in Convergence's Pre-Crisis Multiverse where the COIE is averted?

  2. #2

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    One more thing, is the timeline seen in Dark Nights Dwath Metal, Rebirth timeline?

  3. #3
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    Your reading of the Metaverse seems mostly correct, though it seems like Earth-1, etc., are the actual timelines. The Metaverse is created anew and the old just splits off. It's like if you have a ball sitting on the ground and another ball comes and rolls it over. The first ball is now moved to the side but is still the original.

    The Rebirth/Post-DC timeline, as far as we can tell, is an approximation of the pre-Flashpoint timeline when the writers want it to be and not when they want it to be. Just roll with it and don't worry about continuity.

    We have zero idea what is going on with the Convergence ending. It was never followed up on and seemed just sort of thrown to the wind with no real intention of being followed up on.

    The Death Metal timeline is current, yes.

  4. #4

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    The reason why I think Doomsday Clock Earth-1985, Earth-2 and Earth-52 might be seperate is because they split off of Metaverse and not DC's main canon timeline, so wouldn't that mean they are just Doomsday Clock's versions and not the real deal?

    Although, maybe those ARE the actual PC E-1, E-2 and New 52 universes and they are just somehow connected to both the main canon universe and Metaverse or something.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    I look at it as a metaphor, a way to just say everything ties together. It really is only canon when something else mentions it, and then only as long as it takes for the next writer to come up with their own concept of DC's history.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Midnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptimusMegatron01 View Post
    The reason why I think Doomsday Clock Earth-1985, Earth-2 and Earth-52 might be seperate is because they split off of Metaverse and not DC's main canon timeline, so wouldn't that mean they are just Doomsday Clock's versions and not the real deal?

    Although, maybe those ARE the actual PC E-1, E-2 and New 52 universes and they are just somehow connected to both the main canon universe and Metaverse or something.
    I don't know what Snyder was smoking (even though I mostly like his work) because the Metaverse by it's definition IS and always is whatever the main continuity Earth is. (Earth-0)

    If we're counting the Metaverse as cannon then it has to be Earth-0 and they are one and the same.

    I think the implication is rather that parts of his JL run were out of sync with the timeline of everything else, not the other way around. Though I believe that is what DM is set to fix.
    Last edited by Midnighter; 08-12-2020 at 09:41 PM.

  7. #7
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    I look at it this way.

    I live on the Main Earth. I know this because everything important to me happens here.

    If you met my DC Universe counterpart he'd agree with me ... except he'd insist his world was actually the Main Earth and for the same reason.

    So whether...
    Doomsday Clock is the true version of what happened with Death Metal being a divergent take
    OR
    Death Metal is the ultimate fate of the REAL DCU with Doomsday Clock just being what happened somewhere other than the REAL DCU
    ... depends on where you stand when you look at them.

    Much the same way Earth 1(985) survived the Crisis even though Earth Prime stated that the entire multiverse had been destroyed at the dawn of time.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    I donít know if weíre supposed to take the earths mentioned in Doomsday Clock as a representation of a new Multiverse. I think Johns was basically saying is that once something is created it canít be uncreated. The New 52 may be over but a reader can still visit that version of DC by picking up an old tpb. Thatís rather meta. Same with Earth-1985. If a writer down the line has a good story idea that involves these earths, theyíre out there to be used.
    Last edited by Robotman; 08-13-2020 at 02:15 AM.

  9. #9
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Time is broken. That means you've got multiple multiverse-shattering events all taking place at the same time and plenty of stories are going to contradict each other until Death Metal ends and the dust settles from all the corporate reshuffling taking place at DC.

    Until then, nothing is certain and anybody who tells you differently is talking about of their butthole

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Canon is not a useful lens through which to examine an 80+ year mega-franchise constructed by hundreds of different writers with different goals in mind for their stories and varying levels of consistency across the board, and few of them really bothering not to step on each others' toes.

    In other words, there ain't no such thing as a canon, and anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something.
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  11. #11
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Time is broken. That means you've got multiple multiverse-shattering events all taking place at the same time and plenty of stories are going to contradict each other until Death Metal ends and the dust settles from all the corporate reshuffling taking place at DC.

    Until then, nothing is certain and anybody who tells you differently is talking about of their butthole
    Exactly. Current continuity is that there's contradictions. Wally West attempted to fix it but Batman Who Laughs stopped him and almost destroyed the multiverse. Death Metal happens and afterwards Wally will create a new timeline. That was originally supposed to be 5G but now it'll be different. And we don't yet know what that new timeline will be.
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  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Don't try and make sense of it. DC is so screwed up at this point no one knows whats what. Bob Harras and his "I don't care just do what you want" editorial style is what has created this insane mess, so hopefully with him gone someone can come in and actually get things back on track. Until then it is just going to keep being a big confusing mess.

    It was so much easier when the multiverse was just infinite alternate Earths before writers started trying to "explain" it with things like hypertime, Dark universes, clusters, and so on.

  13. #13
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    Snyder divorced Earth 0 from the meta verse. We are also post metal/post doomsday clock not post rebirth anymore.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I don't think any of this matters anymore. If the news about DC's shakeup are true, we'll never see any of these worlds again. They don't care about old fans anymore. I don't think it was very likely they were going to do anything with Earth 1985 or 52 even before this but now it's all but confirmed. And with Didio gone, there's no way of knowing if they ever had any plans for any of these worlds. After he was thrown out, most of his ideas were ditched anyway. If this was his idea, they were probably never going to do much with them anyway.
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