What If? #999: Which DC Characters Would You Like Marvel to Acquire?

[Riv86672]

Wally West. Marvel needs a speedster that isn't a villain half the time. And DC sure doesn't want to use him for anything these days. His double alliteration name is also perfect for them. Maybe a Green Lantern. Like Kyle. DC certainly has plenty to spare. Black Canary. But I'm reluctant to let go of what few mid-level power characters DC has. Marvel has an abundance.

I can see Wally and Kyle crossing over. Kyle would be especially interesting, if they portrayed him as just what he was. From another earth, now stranded in the MU, but still a GL, and still doing his job. Kind of a lone gunslinger vibe, learning the players in the new cosmic setting and getting used to an earth where the heroic status quo is nothing like what he left behind.
He could def. be used to shine a light on how things work (and dont work) at Marvel.

[XPac]

I can see Wally and Kyle crossing over. Kyle would be especially interesting, if they portrayed him as just what he was. From another earth, now stranded in the MU, but still a GL, and still doing his job. Kind of a lone gunslinger vibe, learning the players in the new cosmic setting and getting used to an earth where the heroic status quo is nothing like what he left behind.
He could def. be used to shine a light on how things work (and dont work) at Marvel.

Ignoring Marvel for a second, a part of me does feel both Kyle and Wally would benefit a LOT from being away from Hal and Wally. They both basically got demoted from being Batman to Robin so to speak... being in an entirely different universe might actually be good for them. Not that it would ever happen... but it would be cool.

[Darthfury78]

Can you honestly say that Malibu, CrossGen and others had characters that are even remotely on the same level as DC's B-listers, though? I know there is a tendency to think Marvel would just buy the characters to bury them, but if this deal really happened, Marvel could make a crapload of cash and generate quite a bit of buzz if they went after the right characters.

As for Miracle Man and Angela, if we're being totally honest here, the success of those characters had more to do with the creators than anything else. Most of DC's characters, however, have been handled by multiple writers and creative teams over the years. Readers aren't buying them for that one voice that molded them into fan favorites, or the elements of plot, environment and other key factors of their native telling. Black Canary would work just as well whether she's in a back alley in DC's Gotham City kicking ass, or in Marvel's New York.

But take Angela out of Spawn's Heaven, Earth and Hell, and you're bound to run into major problems. Her story is best told in that environment. The mistake Marvel made wasn't in buying Angela, it was in shoehorning her into Asgardian lore. They should have taken their time and built a proper environment and mythos around her, even if it meant echoing the quasi-Judeo-Christian background that McFarlane excelled at creating. Marvel has a bazillion demons and daemonic entities, but no real angels. Angela should have been the stuff of Mephisto's nightmares, not Odin's loins.

I totally agree with your point on DC. It wasn't broken, but they had to go and mess it up anyway. I'm not sure if they'll ever be able to find their way back

In my opinion, Todd McFarlane should have offered to buy Neil Gaiman's stake in Angela, Cogliostro, and Dark Ages Spawn. instead of doing that, McFarlane attempts to rip Gaiman off which resulted in a lawsuit. McFarlane told Gaiman that he could keep Angela, which he sold to Marvel Comics. I never saw how Angela even fits in the Marvel Universe. I thought that Gaiman would had brought her over to Dark Horse Comics and grow the character from there. This seems more to do with Joe Quesada taking jabs at McFarlane by obtaining Miracle Man and Angela.

As for DC Comics, the brand can still be saved under the right creative management. It would be nice if the company just end the current DC Universe and go back to how things were before the New 52 or Pre-Crisis DC Universe before 1985...

[Riv86672]

Ignoring Marvel for a second, a part of me does feel both Kyle and Wally would benefit a LOT from being away from Hal and Wally. They both basically got demoted from being Batman to Robin so to speak... being in an entirely different universe might actually be good for them. Not that it would ever happen... but it would be cool.

I agree on both counts.
Barry and Hal being replaced were two of the best written scenarios to come out of DC in the eighties and nineties. They were my childhood Flash and GL. Then one sacrifices himself to help save the multiverse in arguably the most important comic ever written at the time, and one goes full Darkside in a fall from Grace unlike any other hero ever had.

And then you get one of the first sidekicks ever, actually stepping up and taking on the mantle of his mentor, and a young man given and having to live up to, a heroic legacy that stretched back over half a century to the Golden Age of comics.
If ANY of that hadn’t been perfectly executed, it would have been a disaster.
But no, we got two great characters who proved their worth for decades...but hey let’s bring back the originals because that’s what everybody really wants...

[Bolo]

Can you honestly say that Malibu, CrossGen and others had characters that are even remotely on the same level as DC's B-listers, though? I know there is a tendency to think Marvel would just buy the characters to bury them, but if this deal really happened, Marvel could make a crapload of cash and generate quite a bit of buzz if they went after the right characters.

As for Miracle Man and Angela, if we're being totally honest here, the success of those characters had more to do with the creators than anything else. Most of DC's characters, however, have been handled by multiple writers and creative teams over the years. Readers aren't buying them for that one voice that molded them into fan favorites, or the elements of plot, environment and other key factors of their native telling. Black Canary would work just as well whether she's in a back alley in DC's Gotham City kicking ass, or in Marvel's New York.

But take Angela out of Spawn's Heaven, Earth and Hell, and you're bound to run into major problems. Her story is best told in that environment. The mistake Marvel made wasn't in buying Angela, it was in shoehorning her into Asgardian lore. They should have taken their time and built a proper environment and mythos around her, even if it meant echoing the quasi-Judeo-Christian background that McFarlane excelled at creating. Marvel has a bazillion demons and daemonic entities, but no real angels. Angela should have been the stuff of Mephisto's nightmares, not Odin's loins.

I totally agree with your point on DC. It wasn't broken, but they had to go and mess it up anyway. I'm not sure if they'll ever be able to find their way back.

100% this, the situations are very different, I think Marvel will put all their energies with dc because that a unique opportunity that fans have waited for decades.

For Angela agree with you, ghost rider is also a logical choice for her, for the parallel with spawn etc... Miracle Man could have worked with them too, he was supposed to be a introduced in Spawn. I think Marvel motivation to put Angela with the gotg and the asgardians were their movies and maybe try to find a place for her in these franchise, for example Hela in Ragnarok have taken a lot elements from her new origin (the lost sister etc...). I hope Marvel will change their mind and make her in a more "natural" role like in her Image origin.

[Agent Z]

Sergeant Rock, Tom Tressor or King Faraday.

Superman and his entire rogues gallery, because Lord knows DC don't know what to do with him.

Nor would Marvel given how they've treated their Superman clones.

[XPac]

Sergeant Rock, Tom Tressor or King Faraday.



Nor would Marvel given how they've treated their Superman clones.

For better or for worse, I wonder if JMS Squadron Supreme wouldn't give us a good idea of how marvel would treat Superman if they got him.

[Riv86672]

For better or for worse, I wonder if JMS Squadron Supreme wouldn't give us a good idea of how marvel would treat Superman if they got him.

I dunno, I’m more optimistic on the matter.

As much as Marvel’s played w., poked holes in, and twisted the concept of Superman for decades via various stand ins, I’d like to think if they had the actual character on their hands, they’d be more respectful.
And even if we put such lofty notions as respect aside, they’d have everything to gain by doing a great version of the character, monetarily speaking if nothing else. Getting the rights to Superman is akin to winning a hundred million dollar lottery. Destroying the legacy/viability of arguably the most recognizable fictional entity in history is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
They just won’t do it.

[Haquim]

I dunno, I’m more optimistic on the matter.

As much as Marvel’s played w., poked holes in, and twisted the concept of Superman for decades via various stand ins, I’d like to think if they had the actual character on their hands, they’d be more respectful.
And even if we put such lofty notions as respect aside, they’d have everything to gain by doing a great version of the character, monetarily speaking if nothing else. Getting the rights to Superman is akin to winning a hundred million dollar lottery. Destroying the legacy/viability of arguably the most recognizable fictional entity in history is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
They just won’t do it.

It's not a matter of "respect" it's the fact that the Marvel Universe and the DC Universe are fundamentally different. Since the beginning the Marvel method has been about creating "heroes with feet of clay". Their all their characters were created with some plaw in mind along with their merits and powers. Back in the day this was a sharp contrast with other superhero characters, expecially DC's.

Given this philosphy having Superman in the Marvel univers logically leads to the characters' flaws being magnified by his infinite power and turining into something really dangeorus because in the Marvel Universe the idea that "power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely" is pretty much always true. While the DC Superman (who is a thinly veiled allegory for God) is always ready to forgive and forget humanity's sins and mistakes in the Marvel Universe such character sooner or later always gives up on humanity and acts to reign it in. That's why "Superman like characters" in the Marvel Universe work as antagonists and don't work as heroes in the sense they work for DC (a company that has tried for years to change Superman, because writing a comic about God has a very limited subsect of possible entertaining stories tied to it)

[Riv86672]

It's not a matter of "respect" it's the fact that the Marvel Universe and the DC Universe are fundamentally different. Since the beginning the Marvel method has been about creating "heroes with feet of clay". Their all their characters were created with some plaw in mind along with their merits and powers. Back in the day this was a sharp contrast with other superhero characters, expecially DC's.

Given this philosphy having Superman in the Marvel univers logically leads to the characters' flaws being magnified by his infinite power and turining into something really dangeorus because in the Marvel Universe the idea that "power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely" is pretty much always true. While the DC Superman (who is a thinly veiled allegory for God) is always ready to forgive and forget humanity's sins and mistakes in the Marvel Universe such character sooner or later always gives up on humanity and acts to reign it in. That's why "Superman like characters" in the Marvel Universe work as antagonists and don't work as heroes in the sense they work for DC (a company that has tried for years to change Superman, because writing a comic about God has a very limited subsect of possible entertaining stories tied to it)

Your detailed response proves my point, I believe.
Think how this would play out in RL.

Superman is very capable of making national news, as seen when DC had him get married, killed him off, returned him to life...
Marvel’s acquisition would be huge.

Sites like CBR would be doing brisk business, as we fans heatedly debated the pros and cons of the matter.
How would Marvel handle this? Would they wait to debut Superman or jump right into it? Would they tease us by having his first appearance be unexpected and unannounced in a Marvel book that we’d then be scrambling to get a copy of, it would they wait to debut him officially in the first issue of Marvel’s Superman #1?
And speaking of that hypothetical issue, again, we’d all be debating;
Who would be the creative team? A writer and artist who’d worked on the character before, or a team that had never had a shot? Would he be as powerful as he was at DC? Should he be? How would he be inserted into 616 continuity? Would he get all new supporting characters?
The topics of conversation would be almost endless.
And I’m willing to bet that first issue would break the record of 1991’s X-Men #1 for most copies sold, as everyone, old fans, new fans, DC diehards, Marvel supporters, casual curious ppl, got a copy.

[Laufeyson]

Superman (I think DC really treats this guy badly), The Flash (Because why not, Flash already made a cameo in Marvel), and Martian Manhunter. But to be honest, I really interested in how Marvel's way will affect Superman and his mythos (if they acquire him) because Superman is really the antithesis of everything Marvel stood for.

[Darthfury78]

In theory, Marvel acquiring DC Comics is an overlap of what they have already. Marvel is already like DC Comics. Besides, does Time Warner want to sell DC off to Disney?

[dkrook]

Superman (I think DC really treats this guy badly), The Flash (Because why not, Flash already made a cameo in Marvel), and Martian Manhunter. But to be honest, I really interested in how Marvel's way will affect Superman and his mythos (if they acquire him) because Superman is really the antithesis of everything Marvel stood for.

Interesting, but for all this conjecture just goes to further prove that Marvel is too wussy to explore in a meaningful way what their perspectives, and commentary on Superman archetypes. They have a Blue Marvel, or even Sentry. Naw, them having Superman is only about the hype. They could easily hire a quality writer to develop or even create their own.

[K7P5V]

The Flash (Because why not, Flash already made a cameo in Marvel)

LOL! One of the best inter-company cameo appearances in the history of comic books...

[Alan2099]

Given this philosphy having Superman in the Marvel univers logically leads to the characters' flaws being magnified by his infinite power and turining into something really dangeorus because in the Marvel Universe the idea that "power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely" is pretty much always true.

That's what the original Sentry mini series was about. How the perfect hero couldn't work at Marvel because he'd have to have flaws that were just a big.