Why do people hate Barry Allen?

[Dboi2001]

What evidence do you need? Dan has said it in multiple interviews over the years. Hell, he even wrote an essay explaining it and it was in the back of all DC comics that month. I can look for it online and show it to you. I am sure someone here even has it ready to go. You really find it hard to believe that Dan would want to revitilze Barry Allen after the monster success of Green Lantern Rebirth?

Alright I'll take your word. However you act like Wally West was at the top of his game and DC pulled the plug when that wasn't the case. After Rogue Wars Johns' writing went down hill, introduced Wally's twins and then after leaving Wally got forgettable mediocre stories. And Green Lantern Rebirth was in 2006. Flash: The Fastest Man Alive was also published in 2006 so why bother having Bart become the Flash if they always planned on Barry returning?

Yes I would still prefer that Wally was Flash in New 52. It is a matter of preference. Also, why doesn't it make sense? They crammed in everything else in a 5 year window. Barry was in JLA, he dies and Wally is Flash. It would actually be pretty cool. And before you say it would be confusing for new readers blah blah the movie going audience understands and loves Ant Man just fine. It doesn't confuse people that there was an Ant Man before Paul Rudd.

And people hated they condensed everything in 5 years. People joke about how the Robins are basically interns with the amount of turnover Batman had going through 3 or 4 Robins in just 5 years. I don't think people would be confused I just don't think they'd care about Barry if he was given just 5 years or so. Like what legacy can be built in 5 years?

What does Ant Man have to do with this? The movie established Hank invented the shrinking suit and was Ant Man before he left SHIELD and then hired Scott to steal the Pym particles from Yellow Jacket. For all intents and purposes Hank was just the old wise mentor. And fans of Hank hated that move from Marvel. I know people who knew Ant man and Wasp from Avengers EMH and they were confused over who Scott Lang was despite the fact he is the longest tenure Ant Man. What I said was would you OK with Wally being the only Flash so essentially like the Justice League cartoon where there is no mention of Jay or Barry

What I said was it makes no sense to have Wally be the only Flash because Barry is incredibly important to Wally. Like I said disregarding Barry and Jay would be like having Dick be Batman with no mention of Bruce. Like even legacy characters in movies like Scott, Miles and Carol makes reference to their predecessors. The only examples off my head I can think of where they ignore their predecessors is Avengers EMH where Ms Marvel joins the team but never mentions Mar Vell and the DCAU

EDIT: The book I was talking about was Flash Companion. And if decisions are made months in advanced then DC decided to kill Barry when he was in the middle of the Death of Iris arc

[The no face guy]

Cuz, I grew up with Wally; then John's sidelined him

That pretty well sums it up right there, as to why people dislike Barry. When Barry died in 1986, Wally held the comic for 22 years (87-09) before Barry came back. You therefore have a huge fanbase connected to Wally West.

So there is the bitterness, as there usually is when someone's favourite superhero is replaced by someone else wearing the same uniform and name. I happen to like them both though.

[Hol]

Alright I'll take your word. However you act like Wally West was at the top of his game and DC pulled the plug when that wasn't the case. After Rogue Wars Johns' writing went down hill, introduced Wally's twins and then after leaving Wally got forgettable mediocre stories. And Green Lantern Rebirth was in 2006. Flash: The Fastest Man Alive was also published in 2006 so why bother having Bart become the Flash if they always planned on Barry returning?



And people hated they condensed everything in 5 years. People joke about how the Robins are basically interns with the amount of turnover Batman had going through 3 or 4 Robins in just 5 years. I don't think people would be confused I just don't think they'd care about Barry if he was given just 5 years or so. Like what legacy can be built in 5 years?

What does Ant Man have to do with this? The movie established Hank invented the shrinking suit and was Ant Man before he left SHIELD and then hired Scott to steal the Pym particles from Yellow Jacket. For all intents and purposes Hank was just the old wise mentor. And fans of Hank hated that move from Marvel. I know people who knew Ant man and Wasp from Avengers EMH and they were confused over who Scott Lang was despite the fact he is the longest tenure Ant Man. What I said was would you OK with Wally being the only Flash so essentially like the Justice League cartoon where there is no mention of Jay or Barry

What I said was it makes no sense to have Wally be the only Flash because Barry is incredibly important to Wally. Like I said disregarding Barry and Jay would be like having Dick be Batman with no mention of Bruce. Like even legacy characters in movies like Scott, Miles and Carol makes reference to their predecessors. The only examples off my head I can think of where they ignore their predecessors is Avengers EMH where Ms Marvel joins the team but never mentions Mar Vell and the DCAU

EDIT: The book I was talking about was Flash Companion. And if decisions are made months in advanced then DC decided to kill Barry when he was in the middle of the Death of Iris arc

Johns writing on Flash could not have gone downhill after Rogue War because that was his last Flash story. The book was already announced as being cancelled before Rogue War finished. It is a fact. I remember reading the article and posts on Comic Bloc and I am positive I can dig up links. So yes Wally was cancelled while he was at the heights of one of his runs.

Also, GL Rebirth came out a year or 2 before Barts Flash series. I know this because he was already Green Lantern again before Infinite Crisis and Barts series came out after.

The Ant Man Paul Rudd comment is to prove you can show a legacy without confusing people. A legacy character can be the main lead and successful. What was done with Hank and Scott could have been done with Barry and Wally in the New 52. You could have mentioned Barry...he still could have been in JL Origin but then in the Flash series it could be with Wally dealing with legacy. But again that is just preference. I prefer Wally and that's what I would have liked...maybe.

[Hol]

That pretty well sums it up right there, as to why people dislike Barry. When Barry died in 1986, Wally held the comic for 22 years (87-09) before Barry came back. You therefore have a huge fanbase connected to Wally West.

So there is the bitterness, as there usually is when someone's favourite superhero is replaced by someone else wearing the same uniform and name. I happen to like them both though.

I don't know...that is true for some but I think most like him fine. They prefer Wally is all. Hell, I love Wally West but loved season 1 of the Flash tv show.

[Hol]

Alright I'll take your word. However you act like Wally West was at the top of his game and DC pulled the plug when that wasn't the case. After Rogue Wars Johns' writing went down hill, introduced Wally's twins and then after leaving Wally got forgettable mediocre stories. And Green Lantern Rebirth was in 2006. Flash: The Fastest Man Alive was also published in 2006 so why bother having Bart become the Flash if they always planned on Barry returning?



And people hated they condensed everything in 5 years. People joke about how the Robins are basically interns with the amount of turnover Batman had going through 3 or 4 Robins in just 5 years. I don't think people would be confused I just don't think they'd care about Barry if he was given just 5 years or so. Like what legacy can be built in 5 years?

What does Ant Man have to do with this? The movie established Hank invented the shrinking suit and was Ant Man before he left SHIELD and then hired Scott to steal the Pym particles from Yellow Jacket. For all intents and purposes Hank was just the old wise mentor. And fans of Hank hated that move from Marvel. I know people who knew Ant man and Wasp from Avengers EMH and they were confused over who Scott Lang was despite the fact he is the longest tenure Ant Man. What I said was would you OK with Wally being the only Flash so essentially like the Justice League cartoon where there is no mention of Jay or Barry

What I said was it makes no sense to have Wally be the only Flash because Barry is incredibly important to Wally. Like I said disregarding Barry and Jay would be like having Dick be Batman with no mention of Bruce. Like even legacy characters in movies like Scott, Miles and Carol makes reference to their predecessors. The only examples off my head I can think of where they ignore their predecessors is Avengers EMH where Ms Marvel joins the team but never mentions Mar Vell and the DCAU

EDIT: The book I was talking about was Flash Companion. And if decisions are made months in advanced then DC decided to kill Barry when he was in the middle of the Death of Iris arc

Also, the issue Iris died in was published in the late 1970's (1979 I think) and Barry died in 1985/1986.

Also, that Flash Companion is really really good. Highly recommended for any Flash fan. I read it cover to cover two or three times. Worth every penny.

[The no face guy]

I don't know...that is true for some but I think most like him fine. They prefer Wally is all. Hell, I love Wally West but loved season 1 of the Flash tv show.

I love Barry to, as well as Wally, but these posts on Barry always pop up now and than.

I'm happy having Barry as the Flash, I think that fans of Wally and Roy should have their own titans comic though.

[Dboi2001]

Johns writing on Flash could not have gone downhill after Rogue War because that was his last Flash story. The book was already announced as being cancelled before Rogue War finished. It is a fact. I remember reading the article and posts on Comic Bloc and I am positive I can dig up links. So yes Wally was cancelled while he was at the heights of one of his runs.

Also, GL Rebirth came out a year or 2 before Barts Flash series. I know this because he was already Green Lantern again before Infinite Crisis and Barts series came out after.

The Ant Man Paul Rudd comment is to prove you can show a legacy without confusing people. A legacy character can be the main lead and successful. What was done with Hank and Scott could have been done with Barry and Wally in the New 52. You could have mentioned Barry...he still could have been in JL Origin but then in the Flash series it could be with Wally dealing with legacy. But again that is just preference. I prefer Wally and that's what I would have liked...maybe.

Then please do because literally every answer I get as to why Barry came back from the dead was because of poor sales or the very least declining sales. Even Rogue War was not the height of Wally's run

Still why even bother with Bart Allen as the Flash?

Again I never argued legacy characters confuse people but that is a shitty example. Hank got shafted on virtually every front. He was no longer a founding Avenger (Janet was the one to actually come up with the name!) he was a disgraced scientist who lost his technology and company (I dont think Hank even had a company), was old, never became Yellow Jacket or Giant Man/Goliath, didn't create Ultron and hated Stark not to mention whitewashing him and Janet's relationship. Even if you think they should've made Barry into a Jay Garrick role Jay was still prominent and you know not dead before the new 52

It's obvious the New 52 was meant to be the silver age done in the modern hence why the status quo went to be more like the silver age than the bronze age like having Dinah Drake be Black Canary and the JSA being from Earth 2

But could you elaborate your idea? Like what reason would there be for Barry not being the Flash in the New 52 would he die or just retire? Would Wally be Kid Flash still? If so you got to age him up to be at least 16 and was Kid Flash for just 5 years before becoming the Flash. And Ant Man did nothing with the legacy or lack there of the character of Ant Man

[Hol]

I love Barry to, as well as Wally, but these posts on Barry always pop up now and than.

I'm happy having Barry as the Flash, I think that fans of Wally and Roy should have their own titans comic though.

It has been going on forever right? I remember the DC boards and Comic Bloc boards from 2001 to 2010 were a train wreck of Barry verse Wally and Hal Verse Kyle fans. It seems much better here on CBR for some reason.

[Hol]

Then please do because literally every answer I get as to why Barry came back from the dead was because of poor sales or the very least declining sales. Even Rogue War was not the height of Wally's run

Still why even bother with Bart Allen as the Flash?

Again I never argued legacy characters confuse people but that is a shitty example. Hank got shafted on virtually every front. He was no longer a founding Avenger (Janet was the one to actually come up with the name!) he was a disgraced scientist who lost his technology and company (I dont think Hank even had a company), was old, never became Yellow Jacket or Giant Man/Goliath, didn't create Ultron and hated Stark not to mention whitewashing him and Janet's relationship. Even if you think they should've made Barry into a Jay Garrick role Jay was still prominent and you know not dead before the new 52

It's obvious the New 52 was meant to be the silver age done in the modern hence why the status quo went to be more like the silver age than the bronze age like having Dinah Drake be Black Canary and the JSA being from Earth 2

But could you elaborate your idea? Like what reason would there be for Barry not being the Flash in the New 52 would he die or just retire? Would Wally be Kid Flash still? If so you got to age him up to be at least 16 and was Kid Flash for just 5 years before becoming the Flash. And Ant Man did nothing with the legacy or lack there of the character of Ant Man

I am about to leave for the weekend and doubt I'll be on the boards or internet much this weekend. But if no one else here provides proof of Dans comments about brining Barry back or evidence the Wallys book was slated for cancellation before Rogue War was finished I will try and dig it all up Monday.

And yeah I have no clue why they would want to make Bart Flash only to have Barry back shortly after. My only guess is a gimmicky money grab. "Have to change Flashes after a Crisis: was something I remember hearing Didio tease back then. (or something to that effect)

I really don't have an idea of Wally in the lead New 52 style...I was really just making a point that it could have happened while still addressing Barry's legacy. They kind of did that with the Blue Beetles I think?

[Crazy Diamond]

I don’t get why so many people hate barry allen so much or want Wally West to take over again. It just makes less sense considering people act like Wally never borrowed elements from Barry yet criticize Barry whenever writers borrow Wally elements

Fans like you have gotten what they wanted for over ten years now. If there are Wally fans who still hate Barry Allen, what has DC done to get said fans to want to read Barry?

[Dboi2001]

Fans like you have gotten what they wanted for over ten years now. If there are Wally fans who still hate Barry Allen, what has DC done to get said fans to want to read Barry?

And Wally fans had 23 years of Wally as the definitive Flash. Hell despite being Flash for a decade less than Barry, Wally had more published stories and issue compared to Barry

So what’s your solution kill off Barry again and make Wally Flash 1?

[Dboi2001]

I will give you this though. After reading JLA Year One I do think Waid's Barry Allen is the best take on the character and wouldn't mind if JL and Flash writers took more inspiration from that. The CW series is probably my second favorite hitting the right spot of modernizing Silver Age Barry while keeping true to his spirit

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Fans like you have gotten what they wanted for over ten years now. If there are Wally fans who still hate Barry Allen, what has DC done to get said fans to want to read Barry?

And Wally fans got 20 years of that at the expense of Barry being gone the entire time. Wally fans lost him for 3 years to the New 52 before they got a rebooted Wally and when that wasn’t good in about 2 years the actual Wally got pulled out of the timestream as he was before.

Yeah he’s not the main Flash right now. Oh well. Wally fans at least have their favorite character appearing stories. Barry fans spent 20 years thinking their favorite character was never coming back because DC screwed him so hard in the Bronze Age. Wally fans at least have the opportunity for some good Wally stories at some point in the future when a writer and editor agree on it. Barry fans spent 20 years where you only heard about Barry when the character who was the reason he couldn’t come back talk about how “gee golly great” he was.

I’m saying this as someone who likes both pretty equally and read more of Wally than Barry and grew up on Wally, the pity party is kind of uninteresting. You were always in a situation where just by existing your favorite character proved being the main Flash wasn’t a fixed thing and you enjoyed your fave at the expense of another. At least DC listened to the clamoring and let get something.

[Frontier]

I'm more apathetic to Barry than hateful of him. When he's good, he'd good. When he's bad, he's bad.

Barry: Have I told you about my dead mother and father who was in prison?

Everyone: Shut up Barry!

Barry: (Gets Depressed)

God no. Waid came back once and his 2nd run was garbage. The Mark Waid of today is a very different writer than he was when he wrote his first Flash run, and not for the better. Bringing back a past writer to a series he had a lot of success on previously never works out that well. At least I can't think of any times it did.

I honestly don't think Waid has anything left to say on The Flash other than that Wally time travel story he wanted to tell.

[Dred]

I'm rolling my eyes at the plethora of people who act like they were robbed of 20 years of Barry Allen, like they were reading comics back in the 60s.