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  1. #496
    All-New Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    That's the mythology that Mark Waid created in the 1990s. Pre-COIE Barry wasn't too different from his Silver/Bronze Age peers, except that he was much more of a geek than the others. He was the one superhero who was one of us: a fan of superheroes and comic books.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    So was Superboy Prime, and look what a hero he was.

    And you can say the same about Kyle Rayner, who has gone on the record in the 1997 JLA run as being a fan of superheroes and comic books, and who I think is a much more believable and human-acting hero than Barry. Like Barry, Kyle is an all-around great guy who has experienced trauma. Yet, I find Kyle to be way more relatable than Barry. His trauma is palpable and he reacts emotionally to things. The way humans do. Barry just tunes it all out. I think Kyle learned more from reading than Barry did.

    Mark Waid did excellent work on Barry. There is no denying that. But that doesn't mean that Barry's persona isn't quickly becoming outdated as the years go by. Barry still serves a purpose as a sort of anchor character for other speedsters, but there is little else to him beyond that.
    Last edited by BlueRuggo; 09-17-2020 at 09:29 PM.

  2. #497
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRuggo View Post
    I don't hate him, but I do think he's boring. I love the Flash, but I have always found Barry's personality to be very unbelievable. He's even more of a boy scout than pre-52 Superman, and that's saying a lot. But even then, Clark has his rages.

    Barry Allen on the other hand is the living definition of a "Mary Sue." In nearly every title he is in, he can do no wrong. It's one thing for a guy to be a good-natured role model with a strong sense of right and wrong, and that's respectable. However, the writers take Barry to an extreme. He is too pure to be believable, and he is way past the point of being relatable. There is such a thing as being TOO good. Remember the movie "Alien Resurrection" when Ripley realizes that Call is an android? "No human is that humane," she states. That is the problem with Barry. He acts more like a cherub than an actual person. Even Superman acts more human than Barry Allen. It isn't just his actions either. When we read his internal dialogue, Barry's hardly ever in conflict with himself. The idea that he's ever thought about having premarital sex would probably be shocking if we didn't already know he's done it, LOL.

    For all those reasons, Barry Allen is boring. I don't hate him, but he IS boring.
    If you go by Joshua Williamson, Barry Allen is one of the nicest and most kindhearted people around but his good intentions always end up hurting someone and he gets blamed for every problem...and is in constant conflict with himself and whether he deserves to be happy.

  3. #498
    All-New Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If you go by Joshua Williamson, Barry Allen is one of the nicest and most kindhearted people around but his good intentions always end up hurting someone and he gets blamed for every problem...and is in constant conflict with himself and whether he deserves to be happy.
    How is Barry special in that regard? I've read all of Williamson's Flash.

    There are tons of heroes who are nice, kind, and good-willed, who always end up hurting others and then shoulder the blame. Barry Allen is far from unique in that respect, and he is very, VERY far from being the worst offender.

  4. #499
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    That's the mythology that Mark Waid created in the 1990s. Pre-COIE Barry wasn't too different from his Silver/Bronze Age peers, except that he was much more of a geek than the others. He was the one superhero who was one of us: a fan of superheroes and comic books.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Yeah, he was no more a boy scout than anybody else pre-COIE and he certainly wasn't remotely a Mary Sue.
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  5. #500
    Spectacular Member BooCoo's Avatar
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    I think the boy scout thing is a bit overdone with Barry too, and I like the character overall. During the Manapaul run they tried fresh concepts I thought were good. My biggest issue is the 'doormat' bit. Like during the Grodd Speed Storm arc, which actually was pretty good. Grodd spits on Barry, throws him to his death and all he wants to do is help Grodd and cure him. WHAT. It gets cringey at some point and not believable at all. I don't need to be told 1,000 times that Barry is a beacon of hope and optimistic. We get it. I like good stories, not the same repetition rammed down my throat. Like the whole "Something bigger than myself" line. That should be a drinking game.

    I also have Iris fatigue. She's literally a co star in the book. Count on:

    Iris complaining/angry about being carted away from danger. She can take care of herself! I guess being fiesty will let her go toe to toe with superpowered people. Seriously, she's a regular human with no powers that seems to be an action junkie.

    Iris dressing up and helping Barry in a caper. (like during the Forces story nonsense). She was also a 'black hole' agent. She's got a super spy fetish.

    Iris wanting to fight people with powers, because she's fiesty and tough, see? I guess she's gonna throw a notepad at them.

    Random scenes with her assisting Barry with investigative work. Why don't they just give Iris her own series?

    Its hammered over your head that they are the couple destined for eons of love, love, love...again we get it. Editorial wants to beat this thing to death.

    At one point in the series she was literally in every issue. Its crazy!!

    I'm really interested to see what the fallout is after #762 with all this talk about the flash being different. We do have the new super saiyan Barry, so there's that.
    Last edited by BooCoo; 09-18-2020 at 06:29 AM.
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  6. #501
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Yeah, he was no more a boy scout than anybody else pre-COIE and he certainly wasn't remotely a Mary Sue.
    He was an ordinary guy with ordinary relationships and an ordinary job: a government scientist who generally worked 9-to-5 at a steady job, had a girlfriend who became his wife after a few years, lived in the suburbs, had two living biological parents, and had a substantial comic book collection. He sort of stood out by *not* standing out.

    He was abnormally normal, if anything else.

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  7. #502

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    I like him from the show but haven't gotten around to his solos yet.

    To me most of the hate comes from the mantle wars or the one true flash mentality that DC pushed in the New 52/rebirth.

    So i think the reasons why they hate him is the same as why they hate Barbara Gordon. They may have liked them but not when characters they like are getting disrespected. Trust me Didio definitely did Steph Brown and Wally West dirty.

    Its also why i hate the family/legacy character concept now. It just feels outdated and a half measure.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 09-18-2020 at 08:26 AM.

  8. #503
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRuggo View Post
    How is Barry special in that regard? I've read all of Williamson's Flash.

    There are tons of heroes who are nice, kind, and good-willed, who always end up hurting others and then shoulder the blame. Barry Allen is far from unique in that respect, and he is very, VERY far from being the worst offender.
    I never said Barry was special, he'd be the first to say he isn't, but he isn't a Mary Sue.

  9. #504
    All-New Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    That's weird. I haven't seen many people state they hate Barry Allen due to New 52/Rebirth.

  10. #505
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRuggo View Post
    That's weird. I haven't seen many people state they hate Barry Allen due to New 52/Rebirth.
    Ok, I will be first, I hate Barry Allen because of New 52 and Rebirth. New 52 hurts Barry in a way that it assassinate his character to make him into a run-of-mill Silver Age character without any kind of charms in him, while Rebirth screws his history in a way that DC always does. By bringing a history from the previous reboot that suddenly force Iris into his life, Eobard Thawne suddenly the worst things happen to Flash, another Year One? But, you just made it less than ten years ago, and of course by making Barry the central of the Flash. Which is kind of disrespect to my guy Jay Garrick.

    Don't get me to start at that godawful costume of New 52. Aside from Manapul and Giandomenico, nobody able to draw that busy-body properly.
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