Why do people hate Barry Allen?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I only mentioned Barry there because Dan Didio said (believe him or not) that originally Barry was supposed to come back during IC and replace Wally. But the stars weren't aligned or some nonsense (that I don't believe). My point is Wally's original run was being cancelled before the end of Rogue War and had nothing to do with sales. And his second run (The Wild Wests and on) was also already temporary as they already had plans for Barrys return in Final Crisis. Which is why Waid left so fast. It was sabotaged. Wallys book was never canceled for bad sales. IMO.

I get that. My point is that Barry coming in was not at a high for Wally. I agree Bart taking over hurt him. But his book was cancelled and brought back for a year and ended again well before Barry came back. Barry did not come in and usurp a high point for Wally. He came in after nearly two years of dysfunction.

[Dred]

And Barry had worse sales than Wally ever had during DCYou. But someone just happened to be immune to that kind of backlash now. For some reason. It definitely doesn't have to do with bias and respect for one and not the other. Definitely not.

[Hol]

I get that. My point is that Barry coming in was not at a high for Wally. I agree Bart taking over hurt him. But his book was cancelled and brought back for a year and ended again well before Barry came back. Barry did not come in and usurp a high point for Wally. He came in after nearly two years of dysfunction.

Yeah I think we can all agree Flash was terribly mis-managed from 2006 to 2009. It was not a good time. I hope we get better times too. The Flash is my favorite character and I just want to read great stories again featuring these characters.

[Dboi2001]

Mark Waid has done AMAZING stuff at Marvel and BOOM! since his last shot at Flash. Daredevil was one of the best runs in years. Irredeemable and others. Personally I think his return to Wally was sabotaged by Didio. Besides that Flash / Doom Patrol issue in B&B was great. Anyway, my point is Mark would be returning to a book he never wrote. Barry Allen the character and his whole concept is much different than Wally West. It would be like writing a new book and I think it would be great.

so you really think DC would intentionally sabotage one of their most popular heroes just so some middle age editor can bring back his favorite hero?

The writing was on the wall. Flash sales were struggling after Johns left and they tried to do anything to jumpstart the series again starting with Bart becoming the Flash

How about this if the New 52 had Wally as the one and only Flash would you have a problem with that?

[Dred]

so you really think DC would intentionally sabotage one of their most popular heroes just so some middle age editor can bring back his favorite hero?

Yes. He literally did and said that that is how he saw the DC line up. He didn't want Wally, he wanted Barry.

[Hol]

so you really think DC would intentionally sabotage one of their most popular heroes just so some middle age editor can bring back his favorite hero?

The writing was on the wall. Flash sales were struggling after Johns left and they tried to do anything to jumpstart the series again starting with Bart becoming the Flash

How about this if the New 52 had Wally as the one and only Flash would you have a problem with that?

It is just a fact that Wally was already going to be replaced before Johns finished Rogue War. It was all set in motion. It had ZERO to do with sales.

And as far as Wally being main Flash in New 52? I would have preferred that yes. That isn't the discussion though. That is a personal preference. I am arguing the point that Wally wasn't cancelled due to poor sales. The decision was already made before Johns finished his last script for Rogue War.

And when I say sabotage I am referring to when Waid returned with Wally, Linda and the twins. He did sabotage Marks work by reneging on promises he made, characters he can use as well as letting Daniel Acuna bail early. It is well documented in the Flash Companion by Two Morrows publishing.

[Hol]

Yes. He literally did and said that that is how he saw the DC line up. He didn't want Wally, he wanted Barry.

Yeah exactly...this isn't anything we haven't heard a hundred times before. From Dans lips.

[Dboi2001]

It is just a fact that Wally was already going to be replaced before Johns finished Rogue War. It was all set in motion. It had ZERO to do with sales.

And as far as Wally being main Flash in New 52? I would have preferred that yes. That isn't the discussion though. That is a personal preference. I am arguing the point that Wally wasn't cancelled due to poor sales. The decision was already made before Johns finished his last script for Rogue War.

And when I say sabotage I am referring to when Waid returned with Wally, Linda and the twins. He did sabotage Marks work by reneging on promises he made, characters he can use as well as letting Daniel Acuna bail early. It is well documented in the Flash Companion by Two Morrows publishing.

You have yet to give any real evidence. Why would they replace one of their top heroes?

So even though Wally's entire character is based around the Flash Legacy you'd prefer they'd skip over Barry and Jay? That'd be like going straight to Dick Grayson as Batman

The point of this thread was why people hate Barry Allen not talking about mistakes DC has made and how badly they have mismanaged this

[Sutekh]

The point of this thread was why people hate Barry Allen not talking about mistakes DC has made and how badly they have mismanaged this

And the point of this thread has been conclusively disproven by the dozen or more people who have posted that they *don't* hate Barry Allen, just the story impact of his resurrection.

You keep trying to stir up this Barry-hate nonsense, but are coming across as the angry guy with the 'End is Nigh!' sign preaching on the streetcorner.

[Dred]

You have yet to give any real evidence. Why would they replace one of their top heroes?

So even though Wally's entire character is based around the Flash Legacy you'd prefer they'd skip over Barry and Jay? That'd be like going straight to Dick Grayson as Batman

The point of this thread was why people hate Barry Allen not talking about mistakes DC has made and how badly they have mismanaged this

They skipped over a lot of stuff in the reboot when it suited them. For Batman, GL, Animal Man, etc. Don't use the reboot as a justification.

And yes, they wanted to replace one of their top heroes. Because the man in charge decided it out of his own personal wants. I'm sure you would've done the same thing because you prefer Barry.

I like how you say he doesn't give real evidence when he actually cited a freaking source.

[Hol]

You have yet to give any real evidence. Why would they replace one of their top heroes?

So even though Wally's entire character is based around the Flash Legacy you'd prefer they'd skip over Barry and Jay? That'd be like going straight to Dick Grayson as Batman

The point of this thread was why people hate Barry Allen not talking about mistakes DC has made and how badly they have mismanaged this

What evidence do you need? Dan has said it in multiple interviews over the years. Hell, he even wrote an essay explaining it and it was in the back of all DC comics that month. I can look for it online and show it to you. I am sure someone here even has it ready to go. You really find it hard to believe that Dan would want to revitilze Barry Allen after the monster success of Green Lantern Rebirth?

Yes I would still prefer that Wally was Flash in New 52. It is a matter of preference. Also, why doesn't it make sense? They crammed in everything else in a 5 year window. Barry was in JLA, he dies and Wally is Flash. It would actually be pretty cool. And before you say it would be confusing for new readers blah blah the movie going audience understands and loves Ant Man just fine. It doesn't confuse people that there was an Ant Man before Paul Rudd.

Yes the thread started out one way and as lots of threads do, it dove tailed into a broader conversation.

[Dboi2001]

They skipped over a lot of stuff in the reboot when it suited them. For Batman, GL, Animal Man, etc. Don't use the reboot as a justification.

And yes, they wanted to replace one of their top heroes. Because the man in charge decided it out of his own personal wants. I'm sure you would've done the same thing because you prefer Barry.

I like how you say he doesn't give real evidence when he actually cited a freaking source.

Im not spending 26 dollars on a book that Im only going to read once and that is to find one specific part

Yeah and you wouldn't replace Barry with Wally if you were in charge either. No I wouldn't replace one of the company's top heroes just to satisfy my preferences. If it sells then Im not fixing what isn't broken

Maybe DC sabotaged Barry for Wally West back in the 80s ever though of that? I mean Wolfman was against killing Barry

[Hol]

Im not spending 26 dollars on a book that Im only going to read once and that is to find one specific part

Yeah and you wouldn't replace Barry with Wally if you were in charge either. No I wouldn't replace one of the company's top heroes just to satisfy my preferences. If it sells then Im not fixing what isn't broken

Maybe DC sabotaged Barry for Wally West back in the 80s ever though of that? I mean Wolfman was against killing Barry

lol ok what book is costing you $26.00? Lost me here.

And no Barry was not sabotaged for Wally. Want to know why? Because Wally wasn't always going to be the replacement for Barry. At one point the new Flash was going to be a woman without speed powers. (IIRC). So Wally becoming the new Flash was not planned far in advance.

[Rend20]

The writing was on the wall. Flash sales were struggling after Johns left and they tried to do anything to jumpstart the series again starting with Bart becoming the Flash

Except not really?

The last year under Johns the title averaged around 48k an issue. The first three issues post-Johns averaged 46k an issue. Wally's run ended two issues later. And a decision to kick out a character like Wally is made months in advance rather than based on two issues by a fill-in writer.

[Hol]

Except not really?

The last year under Johns the title averaged around 48k an issue. The first three issues post-Johns averaged 46k an issue. Wally's run ended two issues later. And a decision to kick out a character like Wally is made months in advance rather than based on two issues by a fill-in writer.

Yup. This right here. This is what's up.