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  1. #136
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    I'm rolling my eyes at the plethora of people who act like they were robbed of 20 years of Barry Allen, like they were reading comics back in the 60s.
    I saw him back in '68 on TV, FWIW.
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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    It has been going on forever right? I remember the DC boards and Comic Bloc boards from 2001 to 2010 were a train wreck of Barry verse Wally and Hal Verse Kyle fans. It seems much better here on CBR for some reason.
    Yes, I'm not sure why that is, I guess the hardcore fans of that era are older and have mellowed out...probably a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    God no. Waid came back once and his 2nd run was garbage. The Mark Waid of today is a very different writer than he was when he wrote his first Flash run, and not for the better. Bringing back a past writer to a series he had a lot of success on previously never works out that well. At least I can't think of any times it did.
    Mark Waid is doing a good job on Dr. Strange right now, but yes, generally whenever a writer returns to a title after several years or decades...I normally find it really disappointing.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    I'm rolling my eyes at the plethora of people who act like they were robbed of 20 years of Barry Allen, like they were reading comics back in the 60s.
    Okay and if you read comics in the 90’s you are probably in your 30’s or 40’s and shouldn’t be getting upset about which guy is the Flash at the current moment

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Okay and if you read comics in the 90’s you are probably in your 30’s or 40’s and shouldn’t be getting upset about which guy is the Flash at the current moment
    Just turned 30 this year, yep.

    Not sure why that means I shouldn't care about something I've cared about for 25 years. I literally learned to read with comics. Is 30 years old the cutoff point for having an opinion?

  5. #140
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    I mean, I'm 25 .

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Just turned 30 this year, yep.

    Not sure why that means I shouldn't care about something I've cared about for 25 years. I literally learned to read with comics. Is 30 years old the cutoff point for having an opinion?
    No the point is that guys like us are in the same bracket kids who grew up with Barry are in. They had to step aside and deal with it. I have no problem not liking it. But the pity party of dealing the same thing the old fanbase did so we could enjoy Wally is kinda lame.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    No the point is that guys like us are in the same bracket kids who grew up with Barry are in. They had to step aside and deal with it. I have no problem not liking it. But the pity party of dealing the same thing the old fanbase did so we could enjoy Wally is kinda lame.
    The entire gosh darned point is that it is nowhere near the same thing. You're pedaling this false equivalency like it was exactly the same situation when it very, very, very much was not. We've gone into absolute, excruciating detail as to why it's not the same in this very thread.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 08-14-2020 at 06:55 PM.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I saw him back in '68 on TV, FWIW.
    He was the first Flash I became aware of circa 1977.

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  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    And Wally fans had 23 years of Wally as the definitive Flash. Hell despite being Flash for a decade less than Barry, Wally had more published stories and issue compared to Barry

    So what’s your solution kill off Barry again and make Wally Flash 1?
    How is Barry doing as a character these days? Who is reading Flash right now?

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    And Wally fans got 20 years of that at the expense of Barry being gone the entire time. Wally fans lost him for 3 years to the New 52 before they got a rebooted Wally and when that wasn’t good in about 2 years the actual Wally got pulled out of the timestream as he was before.

    Yeah he’s not the main Flash right now. Oh well. Wally fans at least have their favorite character appearing stories. Barry fans spent 20 years thinking their favorite character was never coming back because DC screwed him so hard in the Bronze Age. Wally fans at least have the opportunity for some good Wally stories at some point in the future when a writer and editor agree on it. Barry fans spent 20 years where you only heard about Barry when the character who was the reason he couldn’t come back talk about how “gee golly great” he was.

    I’m saying this as someone who likes both pretty equally and read more of Wally than Barry and grew up on Wally, the pity party is kind of uninteresting. You were always in a situation where just by existing your favorite character proved being the main Flash wasn’t a fixed thing and you enjoyed your fave at the expense of another. At least DC listened to the clamoring and let get something.
    Regardless Barry is the Flash now and unless if things change with the new management I don't see the point in complaining about some Wally fans not liking Barry enough.
    I was more into Impulse and XS than either one but what I can say is DC seemed to forget that you have to bring in newer and younger readers as well. What I remember seeing throughout the 2000s was DC giving the finger to that over and over again so when I see a thread like this I don't get it to be honest. When they made decisions like that it just drove me more towards Image, Valiant, manga, and the like.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    The entire gosh darned point is that it is nowhere near the same thing. You're pedaling this false equivalency like it was exactly the same situation when it very, very, very much was not. We've gone into absolute, excruciating detail as to why it's not the same in this very thread.
    It’s not a false equivalency. If anything Wally fans got it better because they got Wally back in 5 years to at least be around and he gets to retain his continuity since they are acknowledging the timeline change. Barry got retconned on arrival after losing 20 years
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 08-14-2020 at 06:56 PM.

  12. #147
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    Making matters worse was the whole Flashpoin/52 thing. Not only was there a perfectly good ELSEWORLDS label in which to tell stories about altered versions of the heroes that they did not use, but they took this so-called fresh start and merely stick Kyle and Wally in Hal and Barry drag and thought no one would notice.
    How were Barry and Hal anything like Wally and Kyle?

  13. #148
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    For the most fine and has sold decently even with Williamson’s flaws

    I was more into Impulse and XS than either one but what I can say is DC seemed to forget that you have to bring in newer and younger readers as well. What I remember seeing throughout the 2000s was DC giving the finger to that over and over again so when I see a thread like this I don't get it to be honest. When they made decisions like that it just drove me more towards Image, Valiant, manga, and the like.
    So just because they brought back an old hero means they aren’t focusing on newer readers. Flash and Green Lantern Rebirth were some of my favorite dc comics and what really got me into comics

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    For the most fine and has sold decently even with Williamson’s flaws


    So just because they brought back an old hero means they aren’t focusing on newer readers. Flash and Green Lantern Rebirth were some of my favorite dc comics and what really got me into comics
    I'm not quite sure who your quoting, but Hal and Barry have universal appeal to both the young and the old. Hal Jordan in particular wouldn't have been able to sell for over 15 years straight on old readers alone. He was one of DC's top selling comics under Geoff Johns. I've dropped Green Lantern because I find Grant Morrison's work unbearable, but someone is still buying it.

    As for the Flash, sadly sales with Wally had been dropping for years, and Bart didn't sell well enough to pass the title onto him, so for better or worse, Geoff Johns brought Barry Allen back in hopes he could generate the same sales numbers as Rebirth.

    At present, Barry Allen still sells, when he ceases to do so, they will either give the title a rest for a while like they do routinely with Aquaman, or they will look at a creative change, be Wally or Wallace West.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    I'm not quite sure who your quoting, but Hal and Barry have universal appeal to both the young and the old. Hal Jordan in particular wouldn't have been able to sell for over 15 years straight on old readers alone. He was one of DC's top selling comics under Geoff Johns. I've dropped Green Lantern because I find Grant Morrison's work unbearable, but someone is still buying it.

    As for the Flash, sadly sales with Wally had been dropping for years, and Bart didn't sell well enough to pass the title onto him, so for better or worse, Geoff Johns brought Barry Allen back in hopes he could generate the same sales numbers as Rebirth.

    At present, Barry Allen still sells, when he ceases to do so, they will either give the title a rest for a while like they do routinely with Aquaman, or they will look at a creative change, be Wally or Wallace West.
    When they first cancelled Wally his sales were as good as The Flash ever is. They were actually crossing over with Wonder Woman to boost her sales (which worked! The crossover sold out!). Batman and Superman were still ahead, and GL just had a relaunch with Rebirth and a new #1 and such but still. Seriously, when Johns left the comic it was hitting 50k marks and doing well in trades. It dropped to...45k despite being cancelled and losing Johns. It was very popular after an incredibly long run.

    You're also wrong about Bart. though that's on a technicality. Even his last comic was selling absurdly high. It just had a precipitous fall from lack of quality and the trend was showing that it was going to get to bad sales numbers fast. Predictable failure but it actually sold like gangbusters at first. People were excited to see Bart as The Flash, even Wally fans. Seriously, go look at The Flash: The Fastest Man Alive sales numbers. Even outside of the #1 which was overbought from prospectors, the ensuing sales were really good until everyone realized what a mess it was. Its worst comic hit 47k!

    And again, not true. In the DCYou period The Flash had far worse sales than Bart or Wally ever did. And I didn't hear a whiff about replacing or doing anything with Barry.
    Last edited by Dred; 08-14-2020 at 09:06 PM.

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