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  1. #166
    Spectacular Member the COMET's Avatar
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    Everything has happened the way it should have. The only mistake DC did was the New 52. Flashpoint was originally intended to be a Flash story only and should have stayed that way.

    The sidekick will NEVER take the mantle from the hero. That's comics 101. Whenever it happens, will be only temporarily (or a huge mistake doomed to fail).

  2. #167
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    I'm sure that has been stated but it's not so much hating the character, as I hate how DC has handled the return of Barry. It was at the detriment of the other Flash characters. No Jay Garrick, no Wally West, no Jesse, no Bart, all of them were shoved into purgatory because the leaders at the time favored Barry.

    They blew a big opportunity to incorporate Barry into, at that time, one of the best "families/teams" DC had which was The Flash Family. Instead of great story telling, we got lazy scorched earth story telling. "Oh you like Wally or Jay, HA! F*** YOU!!! Barry is the best and will be the ONLY Flash!" I exaggerate but it's basically what we got!
    Last edited by Jekyll; 08-15-2020 at 04:30 AM.
    AKA FlashFreak
    Favorite Characters:
    DC: The Flash (Jay & Wally), Starman- Jack Knight, Stargirl, & Shazam!.
    MARVEL: Daredevil, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), & Doctor Strange.

    Current Pulls: Not a thing!

  3. #168
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    Everything has happened the way it should have. The only mistake DC did was the New 52. Flashpoint was originally intended to be a Flash story only and should have stayed that way.

    The sidekick will NEVER take the mantle from the hero. That's comics 101. Whenever it happens, will be only temporarily (or a huge mistake doomed to fail).
    Wally being Flash for two decades was the big proof against that so I suppose now you're right, but to many of us he still is THE Flash, so I dunno.

  4. #169
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    I think it's less Barry himself and more resentment in general that DC more or less sacrificed everyone at the altar to make Barry the one and only for a while.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  5. #170
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Whatever my opinions of how Barry's return was handled, I still think that tease of his return at the end of Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge and his actual return in Final Crisis were pretty hype moments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    How is Barry doing as a character these days? Who is reading Flash right now?
    I am and as for how he's doing...well, it depends on who you ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    If anything, I think most people hate the "CW" Barry and the comic version gets the blowback from that. Like you, I never liked the "my mum was murdered" angle. Barry, unlike most heroes, genuinely loved being The Flash. But, I guess, DC editorial didn't think a guy just wanting to use his powers for good is a interesting enough hook.
    I think most people actually like CW Barry when he's not cribbing Wally content, which honestly hasn't happened as much as of late.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    Everything has happened the way it should have. The only mistake DC did was the New 52. Flashpoint was originally intended to be a Flash story only and should have stayed that way.
    I remember that. It was supposed to just be a story arc and the end was going to see everything snap back into place. Then DC made it a event before deciding it would lead to a reboot. That whole Flash run was a waste. John's had set up numerous plot threads that he was planning on exploring, but the New 52 scuttled them (some of which were intriguing.)

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Whatever my opinions of how Barry's return was handled, I still think that tease of his return at the end of Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge and his actual return in Final Crisis were pretty hype moments.

    I am and as for how he's doing...well, it depends on who you ask.

    I think most people actually like CW Barry when he's not cribbing Wally content, which honestly hasn't happened as much as of late.
    That's because Grant Gustin is genuinely likeable. But the mopey, angsty characterization wore thin with me after three seasons of that rubbish. That and the whole "Speedster shows up, kicks Barry's ass, Barry decides he needs to get faster/boost his speed, he does, he wins."

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    This Barry was boring - maybe the Barry of 1960 had been boring as well, but we had come a long way from that. Also, I strongly dislike the angsty, guilt-ridden "my mom was murdered and my dad's in jail" Barry Allen. Not every character has to be given a tragic past.
    He didn’t become the flash because of his mother’s death. It was meant to develop Thawne more outside of obsessive Barry stan. And he want angsts. I mean people criticize Barry for being too funny and quippy because that’s Wally’s thing. Regardless people complained Barry was boring already

  9. #174
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    I think of all the times a supporting character or sidekick replaced the main hero, and how it was always very obvious that the “real deal” would return. John Stewart or Guy Gardner. James Rhodes or Eric Masterson. Azrael and Artemis. Reign of Supermen. And so on. It’s still a trend done today.

    Even when I was a little kid and these stories were told, I knew at some point the original character would be back. In many cases they weren’t even gone. The status quo was always safely nearby, ready to be thrust at the reader the way a parent might thrust a teddy bear at an upset child.

    Wally was the exception. He was the proof that there actually could be some sense of forward momentum (fitting, that) in superhero comics. But so was Barry.

    Barry was given a proper sendoff. He was given the ultimate superhero ending. His final act became his defining moment. And it was a great defining moment.

    Wally was then the poor everyman who had to step into these impossibly large shoes. And he grew into the role. It worked so well because there was a sense of forward movement for him (again, very apropos). He had been introduced in the Silver Age as the sidekick, but then we watched him grow into his own as a star in the Wolfman/Perez Titans. DC’s premier title of the time, which i think is a key element here. The “sidekicks” already were outshining the big characters. They’d already shed the label that had defined them when they were introduced. Looking at the Wolfman/Perez Titans, it’s all about kids learning who they’ll be as they grow up.

    So Wally taking on the role if Flash is simply his progression along that path. At this point, he was arguably a much more developed and rich character than Barry. Then adding the legacy element and the idea of living up to the standard that Barry set....that combination gave the New Flash comic the dynamic it needed. It was both familiar and new.

    Wally then went on to become the Flash. He successfully filled the shoes of his mentor. He became what he never thought he could. It’s a great story, and one that doesn’t really exist in superhero comics.

    So, in my eyes, brining Barry back just kind of takes away all of that. It takes away the thing that defined both characters.

    Now, that doesn’t make me hate Barry. None of this is his fault.

    It just doesn’t seem like they had much of a plan or concept of what to do once they’d brought Barry back. His return was an event that they knew would give them a sales pop. Unlike with Hal, whose post Rebirth book had themes of redemption and restoration that carried the book forward and gave it something more than just nostalgia, Barry’s seems minimal by comparison. The whole story if his mother’s murder seems tacked on in an attempt to have something to write about.

    Wally’s book always had a theme. What’s the theme of the current book?

    Ultimately, I’m more a Wally guy than a Barry guy. But I think it’s more about a preference for story that has a little something to say, that’s more about character and theme.

    That’s what seems to have been taken from the Flash.

  10. #175
    Mighty Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    His death was the most meaningful death in comics and coming back was a mistake. Not the characters fault, that's John's/Didio's fault. I find him rather boring. Always been a Wally guy.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, SiKtC, Catwoman, Nightwing, Titans, Godzilla, Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin, Brave and the Bold, No/One, Kill your Darlings, and Deviant.
    My runs: Batman #230-, and Detective #420-

  11. #176
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    Wally’s book always had a theme. What’s the theme of the current book?
    Tragedy doesn't define you and there's always hope to believe in? At least that's the sense I get from Williamson's writing.

    Well, that and "Barry Allen's flawed."

  12. #177
    Incredible Member Hol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    Everything has happened the way it should have. The only mistake DC did was the New 52. Flashpoint was originally intended to be a Flash story only and should have stayed that way.

    The sidekick will NEVER take the mantle from the hero. That's comics 101. Whenever it happens, will be only temporarily (or a huge mistake doomed to fail).
    The fact that it lasted over 20 years proves that it worked. Barry wasn’t brought back because Wallys book failed. He was brought back because 3 guys wanted him back.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    The fact that it lasted over 20 years proves that it worked. Barry wasn’t brought back because Wallys book failed. He was brought back because 3 guys wanted him back.
    that literally isn't true there were plenty of Flash fans who wanted Barry Allen back

  14. #179
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    I mean, Flash was selling less than Robin and he wasn't doing too hot in his latest years. Sales definitely played a part in why DC decided to bring back Barry especially after the successful return of Hal.
    “Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving.”
    – Dale Carnegie

  15. #180
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Tragedy doesn't define you and there's always hope to believe in? At least that's the sense I get from Williamson's writing.

    Well, that and "Barry Allen's flawed."
    That’s possible. I admit to having only read a few issues since Barry came back, so my familiarity is admittedly minimal.

    The tragedy thing, to me, felt tacked on. But if Williamson has something to say about it, that’s good to hear.

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