Why do people hate Barry Allen?

[PCN24454]

is every silver age character bland and boring?

Yes, we just don't like admitting it.

[godisawesome]

The only difference is Wally was retconned.

Eh, call us back when Barry is made into a mass murderer or has his existence denied for a while.

[HAN9000]

Just because you didn’t read the silver age doesn’t mean he didn’t have memorable stories. His last moment in COIE is probably more memorable then anything in Wally’s run. The arguable best Wally story (with Terminal Velocity being its only real challenger) is Return of Barry Allen which while he’s not “in it” really its completely impacted by the character. The story launched the multi verse is a Flash story. Trial of Flash and Death of Iris was a classic story even if it probably went on too long. Flashpoint is memorable story in its own right, the reboot itself kinda of adds baggage, but it’s probably the most impactful Flash story ever.

Sorry, would you please not judge people by your imagination? I've read Barry's whole run. I just found it boring and bland. Seriously? Dumb silver age stories? Memorable? Yeah Barry's head grows so big that he couldn't run is truly unforgettable.
Yes Barry had a great moment in COIE , that's what Barry's all about. Has he ever done anything greater than his death? Absolutely none. And his death is not more important than Wally’s run, otherwise speedforce wouldn't still be the core concept in Barry's run now. The Return of Barry Allen is totally a story about how Wally West has surpassed Barry. And Trial of Flash and Death of Iris... Do you really think these two can compete with Wally's classic stories written by Mark Waid, Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison and Mark Millar? Maybe you are not familiar with Wally's stories. I'll just list some of them, you can decide yourself:
Year One: Born to Run
Dead Heat
Race Against Time
Emergency Stop
Still Life in the Fast Lane
The Human Race
The Black Flash
Chain Lighting
Wonderland
Crossfire
Run Riot
Blitz
Ignition
Rogue War
Flashing Back
Iron Heights

You see, Flashpoint is the only decent story Barry has. So it was adapted for animation, television, and will be adapted into movie, too. Even more times than Dark Knight Returns. Does that mean it's a greater story than DKR? No, it means Barry has no other stories to adapt.

However, that's not my point here. None of the stories you said established him as the Flash fans love. People love Flash because of the characterizations Wally West represented, the stories he featured, the Flash Family he teamed up with, the concepts he provided. What Barry did was just come back to life and take everything away from Wally.

[Wally West]

I don't hate Barry but he's very vanilla and he had a full character arc and a heroic and memorable fate in Crisis in infinite Earths. He and Jack Knight are like the only two characters in comic history who had their stories told and were given endings until Didio pushed Morrison and Johns to bring barry back thinking they would get a R.O.I. like they did by bringing back Hal Jordan.

HOWEVER, Hal Jordan was a totally different story. He got done dirty and on top of that DC went too far and got rid of the entire Green Lantern Corps and the few remaining characters they clearly had no idea what to do with. There was also huge and constant fan petitions and letter writing campaigns and online outcry to bring Hal and the GLC back. I think at a few points in the late 90s and early 00s DC editorial even received death threats over it. Green Lantern Rebirth is something that a big chunk of fans wanted. Nobody was campaigning for Barry's return.

[Dboi2001]

First and foremost, the majority of Barry fans these days weren't reading comics back then. And secondly, are you kidding me?

And the majority of Wally fans didn’t read comics back in the silver age what’s your point?

You can't possibly believe this. Barry never got fucking Heroes In Crises'd. Barry never got turned into a racist caricature for the express purpose of being Wally's (Or I guess Jay's) token black character buddy. When Wally was the Flash we were STILL GETTING Barry stories! Despite the fact that Wally was the current Flash, guess who got the lauded Elseworlds imprint story about them? Barry Allen! And I really liked that story, too! The original Flashpoint When Barry was The Flash they did everything they could to sweep Wally under the rug. Which brings me to this:

And Barry also had an issue where he used Mirror Master’s illusions to guilt trip Iris to go on another date with him or mind wiped Dr Light. Like I see people like Infinity Comics call Barry an ******* for killing Thawne who was going to murder his fiancé. If Wallace was written decently no one would’ve cared about making him black but he wasn’t and so DC retconned Wallace to be Wally’s cousin

Like Spider man did terrible things the Clone Saga and the less mentioned of One More Day the better but people don’t look at those stories to define better and I doubt people will use HiC to define Wally

Those Barry stories you mention were both far and few and were usually not canon. Like not everyone is interested in reading what is essentially a glorified fanfic. Elseworld was cool and all and it brought some of the best comic books stories but half the time they were things like “what if Superman was communist?” And yeah that’s what every Barry fan wants to see their favorite hero become a quadriplegic. If the NEW 52 was an elseworld story done like Ultimate Marvel I doubt people would be discussing it today since it wouldn’t have touched the history of dc. And things like JLA Year One or Life of the Flash were reinterpretations of past stories

Of course we can. Because we did. All of my favorite Barry stories...happened while Wally was The Flash. Flashpoint. JLA Year One. Life Story of The Flash. Brave and the Bold. When Barry came back they did their level best to pretend Wally didn't fucking exist.

Barry coming back in 2009 didn’t sideline Wally and during the new 52 they pushed new Wally but he flopped because of bad writing. Also what you just mentioned could describe Wally since his return in rebirth. He got dumped onto a team series (which was canon at least), had a one shot about his life and each as the flash and appeared in there intervals. Regardless I don’t see how this is a reason to hate Barry. The issue is people think Barry should either have stayed dead or at least demoted to a Flash 2 role like Jay which I wouldn’t be against. Maybe have Wally get the main title and Barry be in JL

[Dboi2001]

However, that's not my point here. None of the stories you said established him as the Flash fans love. People love Flash because of the characterizations Wally West represented, the stories he featured, the Flash Family he teamed up with, the concepts he provided. What Barry did was just come back to life and take everything away from Wally.

That’s literally not true I for one like the Flash because of Barry and not Wally

[HAN9000]

That’s literally not true I for one like the Flash because of Barry and not Wally

You were asking why do people hate Barry. I was telling the reason. Obviously you don’t hate Barry so you are not one of them.
BTW, do you like the concept of speed force? The frenemy relationship between Flash and the Rogue? The Reverse Flashes as sick fanboys? Those all came from Wally’s run.

[Robanker]

Basically because Wally gets treated like they're ashamed of how popular he is/was and want all his accomplishments to be Barry's while Barry got to spend 25 years as the Patron Saint of Superheroes. He got treated with more reverence than anyone because he had the biggest send-off imaginable. Supergirl died in the same event and nobody knew, but Barry? They had statues and a museum dedicated to him. Wally's run had the central theme of him never being able to get out of Barry's shadow for the longest time and even when he surpassed him in every way, there was nothing but respect for Barry. Wally didn't want anyone to forget Barry so he ran the colors and went public to make sure everyone knew that Barry made the ultimate sacrifice and was THE Flash. Barry's rogues returned and Wally dealt with them differently, but even they noted they respected the guy before Wally. He had to earn their respect, but Barry? Even the Rogues kind of liked him and he put them behind bars. It wasn't personal. They couldn't hate the dude. His own rogues.

Whenever he would even be hinted at showing up, it was the biggest deal this side of anywhere.

Wally? They've tried nothing but to bury the guy. Everything good about him is just grafted on to Barry and Wally is hung out to dry. We read his story, watched him fulfill the sidekick promise and it stuck. Then it didn't. Then they brought him back and killed him like four times before Heroes in Crisis while Barry gets to have all his Christmases come early at once.

People only hate Barry because of what his return did to their Flash, and how the Pre-Crisis Barry isn't present. To many of us, he just doesn't feel like Barry Allen, but some generic Flash. It's pretty, sure, but it makes sense when you've invested so much time and money to get no respect back. I feel for Barry fans because I am one. It sucked he died, but if a hero had to go? That was the one to top, and he never had a bad thing said about him afterward. It was always about how much he was admired.

Wally's my Flash, but I like Barry. New Barry is really boring to me, though. He just feels like someone designed by committee to be their fast, funny dude and I'm not a fan.

I miss the dude who didn't have a dark past pushing him to be great, he had powers and was a good person, so he did the right thing. When it came down to it during CoIE, it was the one dude who really didn't have a big motivation to be a hero who stepped up the most. More than most, Barry embodied what it meant to be superheroic. New Barry is yet another orphan with a chip on his shoulder. Yawn.

[The Darknight Detective]

I don’t get why so many people hate barry allen so much or want Wally West to take over again. It just makes less sense considering people act like Wally never borrowed elements from Barry yet criticize Barry whenever writers borrow Wally elements

It's less hate for Barry and more about some losing the Flash they grew up with the former's return. For example, if Barry Allen were another popular character without a legacy, a huge amount of the posts here at CBR over the years would never have been created.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Eh, call us back when Barry is made into a mass murderer or has his existence denied for a while.

You mean like Barry changing the time stream and wiping out a bunch of people including his nephews kids and wife?

[DurararaFTW]

Having at least one of the sidekicks take over their mentor's mantle and join the Justice League I feel gave the Justice League and the superhero community a sense of history. Since Barry's been back there have been no other events that have stuck for any length of time. You can come back to Justice League, any time, exactly as it was at the moment of it's founding. No death or injury sticks, no sidekick ever grows out of their mentors shadow.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Sorry, would you please not judge people by your imagination? I've read Barry's whole run. I just found it boring and bland. Seriously? Dumb silver age stories? Memorable? Yeah Barry's head grows so big that he couldn't run is truly unforgettable.
Yes Barry had a great moment in COIE , that's what Barry's all about. Has he ever done anything greater than his death? Absolutely none. And his death is not more important than Wally’s run, otherwise speedforce wouldn't still be the core concept in Barry's run now. The Return of Barry Allen is totally a story about how Wally West has surpassed Barry. And Trial of Flash and Death of Iris... Do you really think these two can compete with Wally's classic stories written by Mark Waid, Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison and Mark Millar? Maybe you are not familiar with Wally's stories. I'll just list some of them, you can decide yourself:
Year One: Born to Run
Dead Heat
Race Against Time
Emergency Stop
Still Life in the Fast Lane
The Human Race
The Black Flash
Chain Lighting
Wonderland
Crossfire
Run Riot
Blitz
Ignition
Rogue War
Flashing Back
Iron Heights

You see, Flashpoint is the only decent story Barry has. So it was adapted for animation, television, and will be adapted into movie, too. Even more times than Dark Knight Returns. Does that mean it's a greater story than DKR? No, it means Barry has no other stories to adapt.

However, that's not my point here. None of the stories you said established him as the Flash fans love. People love Flash because of the characterizations Wally West represented, the stories he featured, the Flash Family he teamed up with, the concepts he provided. What Barry did was just come back to life and take everything away from Wally.

This is completely subjective discussion. To me Return of Barry Allen and Terminal Velocity are fat and away the two greatest Wally stories and one relies completely on Barry Allen and needs Barry’s memory and image, Wally’s insecurity about it, his arch enemy and it’s heavily implied the bolt of lightning that saves Wally is Barry. So really Terminal Velocity.

Wally’s sidekick is tied to Barry. The culmination of John’s run in John’s run which is probably the second greatest Flash run brought Barry back into play in Rpgue War. Wally’s top villain of 2000‘a os a ripoff of Barry’s arch villain. The most significant of the Rogues started as Barry villains

Again this all subjective, but no more subjective than your list. I grew up in the 90’s and read Wally first before I went back to most of Barry’s stuff. The best Wally stuff was effectively everything leading up to him finally matching/surpassing Barry. After that he became very bland. Also as someone who also read most of Wally’s kid Flash stuff, they totally retconned Wally’s personality when he became Flash so the idea that Barry’s can’t similarly be adjusted is silly when it’s neither’s original personality.

The speedforce is the one thing that came out of Wally’s run that had staying power. Literally everything else about Flash is more tied to Barry. And even then Wally is so fundamentally tied to Barry that it’s kinda silly splitting hairs.

I don’t begrudge anyone for preferring Wally more. But it’s a subjective argument. Barry fans had to deal with him being gone 20 years. Wally fans had to deal with him being gone like 5 and they got an alternative version of Wally in the middle of it. This is just fans trying to make their fan loss seek bigger to justify complaints. For Barry fans there was a legitimate two decade period where it was entirely possible their character was gone forever solely for the sake of Wally to be justified.

I’m not going to say it’s

[Dred]

Sorry that’s just ridiculous.

1. Anybody who read the Silver Age knows the DC multiverse at that time and really most always was to connect the old JSA to the JLA and get those two sets of characters and eras together. That was why there was an annual Crisis etc. Flash of Two World’s did that. It was more impactful than the speedforce. By a lot.

2. The only characters that have been Flash since the 60’s are Barry, Barry’s nephew who got his powers in the same way, was Barry’s sidekick, and spent a good chunk of his run trying to emulate and live up to Barry, and Bart who is Barry’s grandson. Most of the rogues started as Barry villains. Arguably the best villain of Wally’s run was just retread of Barry’s arch enemy. Like you can’t isolate Barry out of it and make it remotely work

You certainly could if you wanted to. You can just erase Barry from history and rewrite and retcon everything to be centered on Wally. Like they did to Wally with Barry.

But they DIDN'T DO THAT because they respect Barry and don't respect Wally.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

You certainly could if you wanted to. You can just erase Barry from history and rewrite and retcon everything to be centered on Wally. Like they did to Wally with Barry.

But they DIDN'T DO THAT because they respect Barry and don't respect Wally.

The difference the retcon to Barry was minimal and more that Wally didn’t exist and his mother died (which in the comics is less of a retcon and more of time travel shenanigans). Which brings us to the first problem, so much of it starts with Barry that to do what you said basically turns Wally completely into Barry minus sub Iris into Linda. Also then you retroactively ruin a lot of Wally’s best stories because the fact that he was the kid Flash and was the 2nd Flash after Barry was important to much of his history. Also Barry not existing kind of hurts Bart who needs to be completely changed to make sense of you retcon Barry being the first Flash. Also the whole Teen Titans era that made the book famous where Wally was Kid Flash gets screwed over as well.

It’s a lot note complicated to do with Wally than Barry. And it has nothing to do with respect. It’s just spot simpler with Barry

[Digifiend]

Yeah, even the 1990 Flash TV show starred Barry - and that was made when Wally was the Flash in the comics!