John Ridley working on new Batman mini

[Chuck]

The reason why I said it was cheap is because they will do this from time to time just to drum up money knowing that in the end they will go back to Bruce. As you said and I also said create a new great character of color. Changing the icons for a few months does nothing in my mind and I for one wont read it

[skyvolt2000]

I may be in the minority but I am so not looking forward to this at all. It is just a cheap stunt. Bruce Wayne is Batman period. If you want to create heroes of color then just create a new one. Bruce is Batman and we all know that this is just a short term ploy. I feel the same way every time they try to get a "new Batman" and it is happening way too often. I felt the same way with Miles. Don't try to replace the icons do the work and create a new character and this coming from someone who is a minority.

Yet when the INDUSTRY gives you ORIGINAL POC lead books.

You know Luke Cage, Black Panther, Noble, Excellence, Quincrible, Superb, Tomahwk, Men of War, The Mall, Reyn, Freeze, Resonant, The Terrifics, Spawn, Savage Dragon, Silencer, Sideways, Omni, Black Lightning, Cyborg, Vixen, Signal, Prowler, Orpheus, Nightwatch, Night Thrasher, Falcon, Storm, Killadelphia, Farmhands, baby Doomsday, Killmonger, Jubliee, Lando, Relay, America, Bitter Root, Ironheart, Blade, Mosaic, Katana, Joot Joint, Black, Livewire, Shadowman, Quantum & Woody, Backstaggers, Bankshot, Batwing and so many more......

I see the greatest gymnastic routines to NOT support them. In some case ZERO attempts to even read the first issue to SEE if it's any good.


FUNNY I only keep seeing this comment

Bruce Wayne is Batman period.

.

WHERE oh WHERE are these comments when it's a NON POC taking over? Where were they for Dick, Jean Paul & Jim Gordon? Terry?
Where were they for Doom as Iron man? Punisher as War machine? Winter Solider & US Agent as Cap America?

Yet Jaime Reyes, John Stewart, Jessica Cruz, Simon baz, Duke Thomas, Sam Alexander, Kate Bishop and Jason Rusch fans can tell a thing about pushback.

I feel the same way every time they try to get a "new Batman" and it is happening way too often.

Jean Paul as Batman (1994)

Nightwing as Batman (1994) (2009-2011 with time as Batman the SAME time as Bruce in 2011)

Jim Gordon (2015-2016)

So at MOST we have seen is 2 years. In two different universes that were canon.


How is a 4 issue mini replacing Bruce Wayne??????

How does that fit in with Tynion's Batman run? It does not.

It's just a MINI.

[skyvolt2000]

maybe if DC invested more in their characters of color and if fans weren't so whiny about characters of colors doing anything, this wouldn't be a big deal. but they don't, they do, so it is.

This.

For all the crap Marvel gets-Black Panther may be looking at volume 8 same as Carol and SO many others. At least Marvel tries.

How many oringal POC at Dc have more than 2 volumes? Steel and Cass held long runs and look at what happened to them.

Jason Rusch is gone. He won't see volume 3.

Black Lightning has a show and won't see it. Since stores HATE his creator.

Vixen had a show and couldn't get anything.

Excluding Milestone-all of DC successful POC are legacies. Cyborg would need a 12 issue run just to tie Steel.

Other than Kyle no POC (Catwoman and Nightwing not withstandidng) have more than 100 issues.

Marvel has 3. Miles hits than in late 2021 or 2022. As will Ms Marvel.

[Chuck]

I have felt the same way no matter what the color is of the person replacing Bruce. Seriously Jim Gordon was a joke. Its a cheap gimmick that wont last. As I said in my post do the work to create a new hero of color

[skyvolt2000]

I have felt the same way no matter what the color is of the person replacing Bruce. Seriously Jim Gordon was a joke. Its a cheap gimmick that wont last. As I said in my post do the work to create a new hero of color

They were never meant to last-it's called a STORYLINE. A story the writer is telling. Because everyone knows the other guy comes back. At least at Marvel the other guy goes get his or her own name.

Why people don't get that is beyond me-it's been done like that for the past 40+ years.

Why is it an issue when it's a POC?

No one set fire to Jim Gordon Batman books like Ms Marvel had hers.
No one was calling DC to get writers fired like they were with IDW.
No one was threatening DIck Grayson Batman like they were with Marvel employees over Rich Ryder.
No one was say we want Bruce like they were with Ted, Rich & Ronnie.

Funny all those antics have ONE thing in common.

As for do the work-that work starts with YOU supporting it. That demographic privilege that allows Moon Knight to have 8 volumes or a badly done Ric Grayson or Hal Jordan book is not an option for POC. Unless you are Luke Cage or Black Panther.

[The True Detective]

They were never meant to last-it's called a STORYLINE. A story the writer is telling. Because everyone knows the other guy comes back. At least at Marvel the other guy goes get his or her own name.

Why people don't get that is beyond me-it's been done like that for the past 40+ years.

Why is it an issue when it's a POC?

No one set fire to Jim Gordon Batman books like Ms Marvel had hers.
No one was calling DC to get writers fired like they were with IDW.
No one was threatening DIck Grayson Batman like they were with Marvel employees over Rich Ryder.
No one was say we want Bruce like they were with Ted, Rich & Ronnie.

Funny all those antics have ONE thing in common.

As for do the work-that work starts with YOU supporting it. That demographic privilege that allows Moon Knight to have 8 volumes or a badly done Ric Grayson or Hal Jordan book is not an option for POC. Unless you are Luke Cage or Black Panther.

My god, give it a rest, tons of people have complained when other white guys replaced Bruce because to a lot of people Bruce and only Bruce is Batman. You're so predictable, you just have to make everything about race when the problem people have is with Bruce being replaced, period.

Why do you always go for overdramatic "what about when people burned this POC's books?!" as if crazy people out there don't burn books, send death threats, etc over things that aren't racially motivated too. I'm pretty sure there were death threats sent to DC when Hal Jordan was killed off. Nutjobs probably threatened to do some crazy shit the first time Superman's trunks were taken away.

Always pulling out the race card is so damn tired and lazy, like 90% of your posts do nothing but that, chill.

[Robanker]

This.

For all the crap Marvel gets-Black Panther may be looking at volume 8 same as Carol and SO many others. At least Marvel tries.

How many oringal POC at Dc have more than 2 volumes? Steel and Cass held long runs and look at what happened to them.

Jason Rusch is gone. He won't see volume 3.

Black Lightning has a show and won't see it. Since stores HATE his creator.

Vixen had a show and couldn't get anything.

Excluding Milestone-all of DC successful POC are legacies. Cyborg would need a 12 issue run just to tie Steel.

Other than Kyle no POC (Catwoman and Nightwing not withstandidng) have more than 100 issues.

Marvel has 3. Miles hits than in late 2021 or 2022. As will Ms Marvel.

Not that I want to pivot much, but is that seriously why Black Lightning has low sales? Stores refuse to order his books because of Tony Isabella? You guys got some articles to source that which I haven't read? I've never heard my local LCSs even mention the guy and we have like five in my city.


For what it's worth, every time the suggestion of replacing Bruce or Clark as Batman and Superman respectively comes up, there's always pushback because to many they ARE that mantle. It's happening on the Super boards right now with Jon, Clark's own son. Back when Dickbats was going to be a thing, there were those people then too.

When Gordon did it, a lot were like "it should just be Dick," because he's the better option, but some were still saying "Bruce or I don't buy." They bought anyway, of course, but that's what was being said. You do have a point in general, but let's not pretend Batman and Superman (and Wonder Woman, frankly) specifically aren't held to a different standard than GL, The Flash, and so forth.

Comic fans just never want the people under the mask to change. Look over at Flash and Hawkman fandoms. We bicker over who is under there and the option is usually "white guy" or "other white guy" for the most popular iterations. You're definitely correct that POC books get very little support and even less leeway from publishers, but I can't think of a time when discussion didn't turn to "nah dude, my guy all the way" on this sort of thing when the incumbent character might lose their mantle. There's always those who want new and those who resist change. When Bruce was coming to reclaim his mantle, the Dickbats fans were now the people resisting change. It wasn't long, granted, but I don't know how many of them would have heard Bruce was returning and said "yeah, we had a good run. Back to Nightwing" even if it was a few more years. We would have complained that Dick had carved out his own niche, Bruce had 75 years to be Batman, etc.

Again, I don't want to understate that there is clear backlash against POC-lead books and they don't get the support they should from either side of the purchase, but when it comes to changing mantles, nobody ever wants to see their favorite give it up. I have no doubts there's some racism behind some of those voices, but for many it's because they vastly prefer one specific take and don't want to read anything else. Hell, I don't read Flash because I cannot bother to care for new Barry. If they made a Wally or Jay book, I'd be there in a minute. Flash fact.

[Restingvoice]

I can't say about stores, but I know Twitter Batman fans harass, insult, and basically teabag him after he said Batman is what's wrong with DC Comics when he found out that Black Lightning became Batman's supporting cast. I don't know if some of them include comic shops owner.

The character was considered a partner in the Outsiders book, but under DCU website screenshot that people posted, he's considered part of the Bat-family, and his mask is included in the cover of Detective Comics. So his status is like Katana. Not as close as the immediate Bat-family, but considered more a part of it compared to the Justice League nowadays.

[skyvolt2000]

Not that I want to pivot much, but is that seriously why Black Lightning has low sales? Stores refuse to order his books because of Tony Isabella? You guys got some articles to source that which I haven't read? I've never heard my local LCSs even mention the guy and we have like five in my city.

Again, I don't want to understate that there is clear backlash against POC-lead books and they don't get the support they should from either side of the purchase, but when it comes to changing mantles, nobody ever wants to see their favorite give it up. I have no doubts there's some racism behind some of those voices, but for many it's because they vastly prefer one specific take and don't want to read anything else. Hell, I don't read Flash because I cannot bother to care for new Barry. If they made a Wally or Jay book, I'd be there in a minute. Flash fact.

I get not wanting a favorite replaced but I am talking about the pushback.

To certain ones the behavior is out of control. While others do complain and either read it or ignore it.
It's just funny when it comes to POC-the behavior gets NASTY.

Bryan Hill dealt with it on Michael Cray-trolls were trying to pick fights with him on Bleeding Cool over the fact the creative team was black. Hill and the artist were the only blacks on the book.

In fact get ready to see a LOT of that on this book and Milestone's return.


I have to find that article where an owner went off on Tony about how bad his book did and he would rather carry Hill's Outsiders than anything by Tony. Bleeding Cool has it somewhere.

Same guy who bashed Marvel way too many times. He bragged about selling all his copies Cyborg unlike a few Marvel. He even showed the chart.
He sold out of ONE issue of Cyborg-he still had over 100 unsold Cyborg books.

Now while it varies by stores-we have had cases of certain books NOT being ordered by stores mainly over who is on the cover of the book. It has nothing to do with story quality. And won't order it if you ask for it. Then scream DC and Marvel need to sell me some good (code word WHITE) books.

Motor Crush at Image by Burnside Batgirl team was one. The did better as a trade beating a few DC titles. The team decided to do OGN with it after 2 trades.
Seems that some store don't want to sell black female lead books.
Archie and kids books have dealt with that too.
As have Savage Dragon. Issues 100-192.

Now there are cases where a title just won't sell and a store should be able to admit that. I know one said that about Cyborg and that was the reason they didn't order it. It was an overseas store.

I can't say about stores, but I know Twitter Batman fans harass, insult, and basically teabag him after he said Batman is what's wrong with DC Comics when he found out that Black Lightning became Batman's supporting cast. I don't know if some of them include comic shops owner.

Probably was. What Tony said-is what a LOT of folks including store owners have said before.

I think what he meant was by placing him under the Bat banner-the individuality is gone. While it's not as bad for him unlike Nightwing and others. Where someone will ask where is Batman. In terms of comics-do you have to put Batman in Black Lightning's book just ot get a store to stock it?

[Frontier]

When Gordon did it, a lot were like "it should just be Dick," because he's the better option, but some were still saying "Bruce or I don't buy." They bought anyway, of course, but that's what was being said. You do have a point in general, but let's not pretend Batman and Superman (and Wonder Woman, frankly) specifically aren't held to a different standard than GL, The Flash, and so forth.

The thing with Gordon is that no one, not even the writer, really took the mantle change seriously. Even from day one Synder was pretty clear Bruce would be Batman again by the end of it.

[Robanker]

I get not wanting a favorite replaced but I am talking about the pushback.

To certain ones the behavior is out of control. While others do complain and either read it or ignore it.
It's just funny when it comes to POC-the behavior gets NASTY.

Bryan Hill dealt with it on Michael Cray-trolls were trying to pick fights with him on Bleeding Cool over the fact the creative team was black. Hill and the artist were the only blacks on the book.

In fact get ready to see a LOT of that on this book and Milestone's return.


I have to find that article where an owner went off on Tony about how bad his book did and he would rather carry Hill's Outsiders than anything by Tony. Bleeding Cool has it somewhere.

Same guy who bashed Marvel way too many times. He bragged about selling all his copies Cyborg unlike a few Marvel. He even showed the chart.
He sold out of ONE issue of Cyborg-he still had over 100 unsold Cyborg books.

Now while it varies by stores-we have had cases of certain books NOT being ordered by stores mainly over who is on the cover of the book. It has nothing to do with story quality. And won't order it if you ask for it. Then scream DC and Marvel need to sell me some good (code word WHITE) books.

Motor Crush at Image by Burnside Batgirl team was one. The did better as a trade beating a few DC titles. The team decided to do OGN with it after 2 trades.
Seems that some store don't want to sell black female lead books.
Archie and kids books have dealt with that too.
As have Savage Dragon. Issues 100-192.

Now there are cases where a title just won't sell and a store should be able to admit that. I know one said that about Cyborg and that was the reason they didn't order it. It was an overseas store.




Probably was. What Tony said-is what a LOT of folks including store owners have said before.

I think what he meant was by placing him under the Bat banner-the individuality is gone. While it's not as bad for him unlike Nightwing and others. Where someone will ask where is Batman. In terms of comics-do you have to put Batman in Black Lightning's book just ot get a store to stock it?

For sure, I see some ugly comments when we get new POC characters and it sucks.

Isabella comes across as done entitled jackass who doesn't understand he was a worker-for-hire and doesn't own Black Lightning and that his intent need not be creed. He implied that Superman actively avoided an impoverished section of Metropolis, which goes against the intents of Siegel and Shuster, and yet he whines when Black Lightning isn't dating or married to Lynn or someone deviates from his vision. What a hypocrite. He also downplays Trevor Von Eden's contribution to creating the character. Screw Tony Isabella.

The thing with Gordon is that no one, not even the writer, really took the mantle change seriously. Even from day one Synder was pretty clear Bruce would be Batman again by the end of it.

Oh, I remember. A lot of people were still saying "I'd stop reading but I don't want the hole in my collection. Ugh. Bring back Bruce!!"

You can't win with some people.

[Chuck]

Yet when the INDUSTRY gives you ORIGINAL POC lead books.

You know Luke Cage, Black Panther, Noble, Excellence, Quincrible, Superb, Tomahwk, Men of War, The Mall, Reyn, Freeze, Resonant, The Terrifics, Spawn, Savage Dragon, Silencer, Sideways, Omni, Black Lightning, Cyborg, Vixen, Signal, Prowler, Orpheus, Nightwatch, Night Thrasher, Falcon, Storm, Killadelphia, Farmhands, baby Doomsday, Killmonger, Jubliee, Lando, Relay, America, Bitter Root, Ironheart, Blade, Mosaic, Katana, Joot Joint, Black, Livewire, Shadowman, Quantum & Woody, Backstaggers, Bankshot, Batwing and so many more......

I see the greatest gymnastic routines to NOT support them. In some case ZERO attempts to even read the first issue to SEE if it's any good.


FUNNY I only keep seeing this comment .

WHERE oh WHERE are these comments when it's a NON POC taking over? Where were they for Dick, Jean Paul & Jim Gordon? Terry?
Where were they for Doom as Iron man? Punisher as War machine? Winter Solider & US Agent as Cap America?

Yet Jaime Reyes, John Stewart, Jessica Cruz, Simon baz, Duke Thomas, Sam Alexander, Kate Bishop and Jason Rusch fans can tell a thing about pushback.




Jean Paul as Batman (1994)

Nightwing as Batman (1994) (2009-2011 with time as Batman the SAME time as Bruce in 2011)

Jim Gordon (2015-2016)

So at MOST we have seen is 2 years. In two different universes that were canon.


How is a 4 issue mini replacing Bruce Wayne??????

How does that fit in with Tynion's Batman run? It does not.

It's just a MINI.

Just so you know Skyvolt I am a POC so to say I dont like POC heroes is ignorant on your part. What I am is a 53 year old man who has read comics since I could read and the classic heroes have been with me since I was a child. I have come to think of these characters as almost real life people and in my mind Bruce will always be Batman, Clark will always be Superman, Peter will always be Spiderman and so on but it has absolutely nothing to do with color.

[batnbreakfast]

This might even work better if it were the Batman of New Orleans instead of Gotham. A change of scenery. Just a trip maybe. A real place. Not outer space, Metropolis or something.

[Hypestyle]

this needs to be a Batman Inc. character so he can continue and not be killed off or permanently injured.

[DragonPiece]

this needs to be a Batman Inc. character so he can continue and not be killed off or permanently injured.

I don’t even think batman inc is a thing anymore..