Which DC ongoings will remain?

[Swamp Thing 2099]

They still didn't like Miles because they killed off Peter though. It took... what, a few... ten years?

And an Oscar-winning film.

[Aahz]

But they're still around, still have their fans and can be used without having to shelf someone else.
The most prominent ones being James Rhodes and Monica Rambeau, both of which still get used.

Wasn't at least Warmachine already a pretty important support charcter on Ironman before he took over as Ironman, isn't his situation quite similar to when Nightwing or James Gordon took over as Batman, which also didn't really have much of an effect?

[Ascended]

I think we need to stop thinking like a 'comic-book fan' and start thinking like a 'corporate plan'.

If the idea is to try and guess what books will be left standing then yeah, you can't approach it as a fan you have to consider the business realities, limitations, and what AT&T's goal/s are.

Trying to figure this out from the perspective of a fan will only make you mad. Trying to look at it through the perspective of business will still make you mad but you'll at least be able to somewhat understand the "why" of the thing.

Don't be surprised if most of our pet favorite characters disappear. If the bills they aren't paying, then in comics they aren't staying.

Most of the lesser character are already in a "cameo appearance only" status, so this new plan of AT&T's changes very little. It's not like Vixen or Booster Gold can lose solo books they don't have.

AT&T isn't going to let trademarks expire through lack of use; those smaller IP's can and do become successful and profitable and no company likes to just give up a property it owns, so we'll still see those lesser characters pop up now and then. And in digital and OGN they're far, far more likely to get some real focus and attention; the direct market has proven it won't support characters like Cyborg and Blue Beetle but digital and OGN's are a totally different thing.

The direct market will be largely what it has been since 2016; DC's big name characters and teams, with everyone else stuck on the sidelines. The other markets are where those characters will have a real shot at finding sustainable audiences. We need to adjust our way of thinking; the direct market is about to become the lowest priority DC has, not the biggest. If you want to see DC put real effort into something, we'll need to look to the bookstores and our phones, not the LCS.

[Mr.B]

The 16 main universe ongoings plus JSA. Instead of relaunch, I guess they will try to change creative teams or use higher renumbering gimmick to boost sales up.

[The no face guy]

Or that hitting the reboot button too many times, you will get fatigue or gradually dilute the appeal.

Yes it's the reboots that killed reading the Legion for me. It's annoying to have start from scratch over and over again, especially when they reset their age, and wipe out the elaborate universe that was created for them.

I can understand why there appears to be a Bendis backlash. Comics are like comfort food in that they provide an escape from reality. If someone buys a bag of milk chocolate M&M's, and they bite into them and they're caramel, they will shout WTF! Likewise, if someone buys a Legion of Super Heroes comic and they turn the page, and their favourite heroes have been radically changed (Timber Wolf) they are probably going to shout WTF! and be equally upset.

Anyhow, DC will figure it out one day.

[Zaresh]

An an Oscar-winning film.

The movie made him pretty likeable, and gave him a charming personality that wasn't too generic-teenager, to be fair. But I think people liked him fine already by around 2015.

[scary harpy]

AT&T isn't going to let trademarks expire through lack of use; those smaller IP's can and do become successful and profitable and no company likes to just give up a property it owns, so we'll still see those lesser characters pop up now and then. And in digital and OGN they're far, far more likely to get some real focus and attention; the direct market has proven it won't support characters like Cyborg and Blue Beetle but digital and OGN's are a totally different thing.

The direct market will be largely what it has been since 2016; DC's big name characters and teams, with everyone else stuck on the sidelines. The other markets are where those characters will have a real shot at finding sustainable audiences. We need to adjust our way of thinking; the direct market is about to become the lowest priority DC has, not the biggest. If you want to see DC put real effort into something, we'll need to look to the bookstores and our phones, not the LCS.

Thanks, Ascended.

I would certainly like an OGN about Bette Kane...but for someone to write about her then someone must know about her. There's just not that much material about Bette to inspire anyone...but us comic-book geeks.

I not really surprised that Raven had a successful OGN. She's more known to the public.

See the difference between the two Titans?

[scary harpy]

The movie made him pretty likeable, and gave him a charming personality that wasn't too generic-teenager, to be fair. But I think people liked him fine already by around 2015.

That was a good movie.

And it probably made Miles known to a far greater audience than before.

[skyvolt2000]

Most of the lesser character are already in a "cameo appearance only" status, so this new plan of AT&T's changes very little. It's not like Vixen or Booster Gold can lose solo books they don't have. If you want to see DC put real effort into something, we'll need to look to the bookstores and our phones, not the LCS.

Actually it does.

You took out most of the folks who only worship the comic book store and direct market and have stood in the way of progress.

Vixen and others do cameos when you keep assigning the SAME recycled writers to books. Under the watch of tired editors with agendas. How many books did we see the same writer on?
While slamming the door at the person who could give you a decent Booster Gold book? Because as one writer put it "the good old boy network" stands in the way.

Meanwhile tv writers can make Cyborg, Vixen, Hawkman and others interesting.


Who stood in the way of Black Panther and Cap Marvel getting movies at Marvel? They moved him out of the way. The rest is history.

Once upon a time there was a muppet on Sesame Street that the late Richard Hunt (3 others tried before him) could not make work or popular. Hunt went into the breakroom and tossed the muppet at a young man. "You try something with that," Hunt told the young man.
That muppet became Elmo. 5 different folks took a shot.

Thinking corporate means "I am looking at EVERYBODY. Everybody is on the table in whatever form we can get."

[skyvolt2000]

Thanks, Ascended.

I would certainly like an OGN about Bette Kane...but for someone to write about her then someone must know about her. There's just not that much material about Bette to inspire anyone...but us comic-book geeks.

I not really surprised that Raven had a successful OGN. She's more known to the public.

See the difference between the two Titans?

How much material did Squirrel Girl have? She was among the first to have a hit OGN.

Jason Reynolds's Miles book came out at around the time Bendis's run was heading into trade 3. That book was a best seller within a week.

You don't need a ton of material to do a OGN.

You just need basic stuff.

A lot of these guys are known but when you don't venture out beyond the LCS-you never know.

I know plenty of folks who can tell you about WIcked N Divine and never set foot in a comic book store.

[scary harpy]

Actually it does.

You took out most of the folks who only worship the comic book store and direct market and have stood in the way of progress.

Vixen and others do cameos when you keep assigning the SAME recycled writers to books. Under the watch of tired editors with agendas. How many books did we see the same writer on?
While slamming the door at the person who could give you a decent Booster Gold book? Because as one writer put it "the good old boy network" stands in the way.

Meanwhile tv writers can make Cyborg, Vixen, Hawkman and others interesting.


Who stood in the way of Black Panther and Cap Marvel getting movies at Marvel? They moved him out of the way. The rest is history.

Once upon a time there was a muppet on Sesame Street that the late Richard Hunt (3 others tried before him) could not make work or popular. Hunt went into the breakroom and tossed the muppet at a young man. "You try something with that," Hunt told the young man.
That muppet became Elmo. 5 different folks took a shot.

Thinking corporate means "I am looking at EVERYBODY. Everybody is on the table in whatever form we can get."

All good to know (including Elmo ).

How much material did Squirrel Girl have? She was among the first to have a hit OGN.

Jason Reynolds's Miles book came out at around the time Bendis's run was heading into trade 3. That book was a best seller within a week.

You don't need a ton of material to do a OGN.

You just need basic stuff.

A lot of these guys are known but when you don't venture out beyond the LCS-you never know.

I know plenty of folks who can tell you about WIcked N Divine and never set foot in a comic book store.

Thanks, skyvolt2000.

You've given me some slim hope.

[Aahz]

AT&T isn't going to let trademarks expire through lack of use; those smaller IP's can and do become successful and profitable and no company likes to just give up a property it owns, so we'll still see those lesser characters pop up now and then. And in digital and OGN they're far, far more likely to get some real focus and attention; the direct market has proven it won't support characters like Cyborg and Blue Beetle but digital and OGN's are a totally different thing.

The direct market will be largely what it has been since 2016; DC's big name characters and teams, with everyone else stuck on the sidelines. The other markets are where those characters will have a real shot at finding sustainable audiences. We need to adjust our way of thinking; the direct market is about to become the lowest priority DC has, not the biggest. If you want to see DC put real effort into something, we'll need to look to the bookstores and our phones, not the LCS.

OGN probably, but not Digital unless something massively changes.

Digital sales are at maybe 25% of the sales of the direct market, and have been stagnant for years. And the only books that were really successful there are stuff like the Injustice Comics or current Batman Adventure continue comics, that is somehow related to popular games or TV shows, or the current 0.99$ digital comics from the Wallmart giants.

[Zaresh]

That was a good movie.

And it probably made Miles known to a far greater audience than before.

Animation wise, art wise, it was superb. The second best animated movie I've seen in the last 5 years. And it was respectful to every character, I think. It was absolutely delightful.

[Ascended]

Thanks, Ascended.

See the difference between the two Titans?

Yeah, Bette is a utter non-entity in the comics, I'm pretty sure the biggest role she's had in thirty years is as Batwoman's sidekick-in-training. And people know Raven from the Titans cartoons.

But that doesn't matter much, for a few reasons. One, a digital series or OGN's are adaptations, they won't be limited by direct market history/continuity and creators have all the room they want to mess with the details, change and adjust things for their narrative, etc. Two, there isn't a group of editors hanging over the shoulder of the creator saying "No, you can't do that, you'll make these other characters you're not even writing look bad! It has to be the Trinity who saves the day!" Three; the general audience these OGN's are aimed at might recognize DC's biggest and most famous names like the Trinity, League, and Titans, but the "importance" of a character or story doesn't matter in those markets like it does in the direct market. And four; while the corporate heads don't know their Booster Golds from their Arm-Fall-Off Boys, the creators they hire? Those people are fans too. Those people do some research and they have their favorite D-listers, just like we do.

If you want to see Bette get a project, only one thing needs to happen; a writer has to pick her name off a list. That's it. Look at that Cass Cain OGN; the author was given a list with tons of characters on it, and the writer grabbed Cass. No editorial "you have to use this character" no managerial bullsh*t demanding the character be sacrificed in the next Event. Just a writer who said "This is a character I want to write about." That is it.

We gotta get past the idea that these new products are going to be made the same way we're used to. They're not. All the rules, expectations, and limitations of the direct market mean almost nothing elsewhere. Flamebird could end up being one of the best selling OGN's of 2021. Or maybe Power Girl. Characters who can barely manage a background cameo appearance in the direct market can be wildly successful outside that market. Now, that doesn't mean Flamebird is gonna get any attention, DC has thousands of characters for writers to pick from. But outside the direct market Bette actually has a chance, which is a hell of a lot more than she has in the LCS.

Actually it does.

You took out most of the folks who only worship the comic book store and direct market and have stood in the way of progress.

Sorry, I meant the direct market won't really change. Almost everything they make right now for the LCS revolves around the big names and their secondary, legacy characters, and *that* is what won't change. Beyond the direct market, yeah, this could be a whole brand new day, assuming DC doesn't royally f*ck it all up.

OGN probably, but not Digital unless something massively changes.

Digital sales are at maybe 25% of the sales of the direct market, and have been stagnant for years. And the only books that were really successful there are stuff like the Injustice Comics or current Batman Adventure continue comics, that is somehow related to popular games or TV shows, or the current 0.99$ digital comics from the Wallmart giants.

All the reports I've seen, as well as that Jim Lee interview, say digital is getting a huge amount of effort and attention. I agree that the bookstore/OGN side of things shows the most growth and looks like the healthiest, best market to push into and invest in, but these guys apparently think digital has a lot of untapped potential. That's not my opinion, that's what Jim Lee is apparently saying.

But I'm sure the bookstore stuff will get more attention too.

[scary harpy]

...
The direct market will be largely what it has been since 2016; DC's big name characters and teams, with everyone else stuck on the sidelines. The other markets are where those characters will have a real shot at finding sustainable audiences. We need to adjust our way of thinking; the direct market is about to become the lowest priority DC has, not the biggest. If you want to see DC put real effort into something, we'll need to look to the bookstores and our phones, not the LCS.

...

Sorry, I meant the direct market won't really change. Almost everything they make right now for the LCS revolves around the big names and their secondary, legacy characters, and *that* is what won't change. Beyond the direct market, yeah, this could be a whole brand new day, assuming DC doesn't royally f*ck it all up.

...

Okay. I think I see.

I'm not going to morn the loss the direct market. I was only buying Shazam and Young Justice.

I am not buying Death Metal or Endless Winter. I won't buy the inevitable upcoming reboot/relaunch (Crisis of Infinite Cash Grabs).

I am mildly curious what floppies will survive this overhaul/watershed.

I am more curious what IPs will inspire OGNs.

We live in interesting times, don't we.