Which DC ongoings will remain?

[Superfly Frankenstein]

The state of DC comics is that the company is too limited. We all agree on this. Look back (God I feel old) to 25 years ago. Yes, you had four Superman monthlies, four Batman monthlies, etc. but you also had Hitman, Anima, Starman, Damage, and more. The problem lies in the fact that the Direct Market was the only place to buy titles. Before 2000, 80% of what I bought came from drug stores, grocery stores and gas stations. As a kid, I lived almost an hour from the nearest comic shop. What DC needs to do is spread out where they can sell. The Walmart stuff is good, but how about putting Action Comics 1026 on their magazine racks next to People or Entertainment Weekly. Make a deal with Kroger’s to put up a spiral and sell Wonder Woman 763. When I was 10, while mom and dad shopped, I went to the spinner, checked what they had and ended up walking out with two or three books (given, they were less than a buck). That’s how I learned about X-Factor and Captain Atom and Booster Gold. DC and Marvel need to get back to that. Wider distribution and lower prices can do wonders for the medium.

[Mr.B]

Depends on if the markets would want to carry them. And if prices can be lowered (they can't without going black and white).

Anyway the past is dead and never will be replicated.

[ohfellow]

In fact, Cassandra Cain wasn't in the list, Batgirl was in the list (along other characters everyone knows or characters that appear in movies or TV shows). The author was free to use the character she wants for that idenitity. This concerns me with characters with less known identities.

Also, the author doesn't only choose Cassandra Batgirl, she wrote a pitch for Starfire too. DC still choose Cassandra Batgirl at the end, so it will depends what they find more appealing for their audience (it is possible Cassandra Cain appearing in the BOP movie influence in their decision too).

Kami Garcia is writing Teen Titans. First we had Teen Titans: Raven about a year ago, then coming this September is Teen Titans: Beast Boy. Depending on what team configuration they are shooting for, Starfire could be held in reserve for now, for that series.

[Lee Stone]

Depends on if the markets would want to carry them. And if prices can be lowered (they can't without going black and white).

Anyway the past is dead and never will be replicated.

I would never say 'never'.
Or the Silver Age would never have happened.

[Mr.B]

I would never say 'never'.
Or the Silver Age would never have happened.

Not the same thing.

[skyvolt2000]

The state of DC comics is that the company is too limited. We all agree on this. Look back (God I feel old) to 25 years ago. Yes, you had four Superman monthlies, four Batman monthlies, etc. but you also had Hitman, Anima, Starman, Damage, and more. The problem lies in the fact that the Direct Market was the only place to buy titles. Before 2000, 80% of what I bought came from drug stores, grocery stores and gas stations. As a kid, I lived almost an hour from the nearest comic shop. What DC needs to do is spread out where they can sell. The Walmart stuff is good, but how about putting Action Comics 1026 on their magazine racks next to People or Entertainment Weekly. Make a deal with Kroger’s to put up a spiral and sell Wonder Woman 763. When I was 10, while mom and dad shopped, I went to the spinner, checked what they had and ended up walking out with two or three books (given, they were less than a buck). That’s how I learned about X-Factor and Captain Atom and Booster Gold. DC and Marvel need to get back to that. Wider distribution and lower prices can do wonders for the medium.

Actually some stores still do that. The Archie digests are either at the check out or with books (if you can find them).

Barnes and Nobles had them in the magazines.

The Gator supporter books are with the kids books or magazines depending on which Wal-Mart you go to.

RARELY do I see DC collected books in those places. Sometimes I find one in the toys and others in the electronics with gamer and tv merchandise.

[J. D. Guy]

Except that it's not sustainable, because fans of older characters will come down and try to kill the book. It's a fact. LCS will even refuses to sell the books the new character is in.

Want to know how I know that ?

Duke Thomas. The poor guy was shat upon from the get go, but especially during Rebirth, where even his most minute appearance in Batman or All-Star Batman with the back-ups riled a lot of readers who turned against the books and complained that he was "too much like Tim Drake" and "Snyder should stop pushing is pet and use Tim instead". They never gave him a fair chance, they did all they could to kill him and his chances, and I'm afraid they at least managed to cut his mini by half, which is a shame because Batman and the Signal is a wonderful read, which set up a lot of potential stories for Duke, new villains, new allies, daytime Gotham, so many questions about the Immortals, etc.

But fans of older characters trashed Duke from the get go, and here we are today. Thankfully, DC still seems to like him, since he is in Outsiders and in the upcoming Joker War issues, he has a least cameos. But that's it, which is a shame. And I mostly blame the established direct market readership, who always have excuses to not support new characters; WHich usually revolves around "I want a JSA/LOSH book first" or "When Tim Drake will have a solo book I'll consider it".

Quoting this post both for emphasis and to second it.

The best pushes are the earnest, holistic ones, were the new characters are backed by all relevant parties who are committed to assure their survival, their sustainment, and that they thrive. Those who are against the new character(s) will be against them regardless. A lethargic push just caters to their ability to dismiss the newcomer(s) as if they weren't there, because they're not in practice there most of the time in ways that matter. Those who are for the new character(s) will eventually grow over time and with the assurance that the world cares about these characters like they do and won't vanish them at a moment's notice.

[Lee Stone]

Not the same thing.

In 1950, DC cancelled all their superheroes except for three (Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman), replacing the other superheroes with westerns and other genres, which were more popular at the time.

If it wasn’t for the creation of the Comics Code, superheroes would’ve continued phasing out.
But it was the Comics Code that made DC ‘replicate’ the past with the Silver Age.
If someone said, ‘no we can’t go back to superheroes’ or ‘no we can’t remake the JSA’, DC Comics wouldn’t be the same it is today.

Someone could’ve said, ‘but superheroes don’t sell anymore’ and be right.
But they had to find something that was ‘safe’ to publish.
They went back to the well, taking a risk, and it worked.

[J. D. Guy]

If you wait long enough the character is not new anymore.

If we go for example go back to the Duke Thomas, I can't remember any complaints about him being in Outsiders.

And it often comes really down to how you do it and how interesting the characters is. There were for example also a lot of people against Damian as Robin, but he won quickly enough readers over to be successful lead character on his own.
Jason got even voted to die by the fans, and a lot were against him being part of the Batfamily as Red Hood, but he has become also a success as Red Hood.

I definitely do. Some were more passive-aggressive, others weren't. But both were still there.

Also, Outsiders is kind of a poor example due to how lukewarm Duke was used and portrayed there. Even when stuff happened with his character, it was still in ways that were insincere and lacking in proper pay-off (Duke's power swap, for example, or how Karma was handled in relation to Duke). Speaking of hierarchies, that book had its own. From a holistic analysis, Duke was pretty much dead last. As sweet as many of his moments with Orphan were, they weren't enough. And with the writer continuously making promises to an increasingly sceptical Duke fanbase that he was never delivering on (including 2 weeks before it was officially confirmed as cancelled, were he assured next Season he'd pay-off Duke for realsies if there was one, which we learn there wouldn't be 2 weeks later, of course), the people who ultimately benefitted were Duke's haters who could functionally ignore and downplay his presence. Because the books did that by themselves.

Not the old fans who were strung along or the prospecting new ones who got a poor take. Outside the bare minimum of staying in print, they didn't benefit at all.

[Zero Hunter]

I have had a bad feeling for a few years that what is going to happen is they are just going to cancel everything and then just publish one off stories. No continuity or character growth just quick one and done throw away generic stories. Sort of like the Golden Age where character fights bad beats bad guy rinse and repeat next issue. I think what we are going to see is a Superman book or a Batman book which are just total fluff with no substance at all behind them to try and appeal to that imaginary little kid market the execs seem to think are out there.

[Konja7]

I have had a bad feeling for a few years that what is going to happen is they are just going to cancel everything and then just publish one off stories. No continuity or character growth just quick one and done throw away generic stories. Sort of like the Golden Age where character fights bad beats bad guy rinse and repeat next issue. I think what we are going to see is a Superman book or a Batman book which are just total fluff with no substance at all behind them to try and appeal to that imaginary little kid market the execs seem to think are out there.

Well, the character growth is pretty inexistent in continuity, since they always try to mantain the status quo. Even if there are changes, they will return to the status quo in the future.

Self-contained stories (not connected to a big continuity) allow growth and changes for the characters in that story, because the writers and editors don't need to worry about the status quo.

[Restingvoice]

I definitely do. Some were more passive-aggressive, others weren't. But both were still there.

Also, Outsiders is kind of a poor example due to how lukewarm Duke was used and portrayed there. Even when stuff happened with his character, it was still in ways that were insincere and lacking in proper pay-off (Duke's power swap, for example, or how Karma was handled in relation to Duke). Speaking of hierarchies, that book had its own. From a holistic analysis, Duke was pretty much dead last. As sweet as many of his moments with Orphan were, they weren't enough. And with the writer continuously making promises to an increasingly sceptical Duke fanbase that he was never delivering on (including 2 weeks before it was officially confirmed as cancelled, were he assured next Season he'd pay-off Duke for realsies if there was one, which we learn there wouldn't be 2 weeks later, of course), the people who ultimately benefitted were Duke's haters who could functionally ignore and downplay his presence. Because the books did that by themselves.

Not the old fans who were strung along or the prospecting new ones who got a poor take. Outside the bare minimum of staying in print, they didn't benefit at all.

I don't hear the anti-Duke either but the smaller pool of fans means a smaller amount of haters too
What I saw was when Black Lightning author protested that he's now considered a Bat-family and that Batman is bad for DC, Twitter's Worsts are harassing him, saying that he should be thankful because no one's interested in Black Lightning or that he's a bygone creator

[scary harpy]

I have had a bad feeling for a few years that what is going to happen is they are just going to cancel everything and then just publish one off stories. No continuity or character growth just quick one and done throw away generic stories. Sort of like the Golden Age where character fights bad beats bad guy rinse and repeat next issue. I think what we are going to see is a Superman book or a Batman book which are just total fluff with no substance at all behind them to try and appeal to that imaginary little kid market the execs seem to think are out there.

Well, the character growth is pretty inexistent in continuity, since they always try to maintain the status quo. Even there are changes, they will return to the status quo in the future.

Self-contained stories (not connected to a big continuity) allow growth and changes for the characters in that story, because the writers and editors don't need to worry about the status quo.

Exactly!

This is a limitation of the genre. We accept this. The status quo is necessary for future writers.

I lived with so-called continuity and character growth for 30 years and I am unimpressed. I found character death and maiming to be heartbreaking and completely unenjoyable. The DCU has become a playground built on a graveyard.

The 'imaginary' little kid market was reached with Teen Titans Go. We do need to appeal to the children...and their goofy sense of humors. (It was also reached with PJ Masks and the Miraculous Ladybug.)

[J. D. Guy]

I don't hear the anti-Duke either but the smaller pool of fans means a smaller amount of haters too
What I saw was when Black Lightning author protested that he's now considered a Bat-family and that Batman is bad for DC, Twitter's Worsts are harassing him, saying that he should be thankful because no one's interested in Black Lightning or that he's a bygone creator

Smaller pools of fans don't automatically equate to smaller pools of haters. Haters can be loud and insidious and more numerous than it seems.

(An aside, there's also potential that a fan pool is larger than it seems, especially when there isn't adequate space for them to express themselves as fans. As well, not every fan of something is on social spaces, let alone specifically designated fandom ones like these CBR forums.)

And honestly, it's not really about the size of the hater-base. It's about the toxicity of the hate they generate, and the damage that toxicity does all around.

[iron chimp]

I dont know what people think comics were like 30 or 40 years ago but there far more 'haters' and it was far more 'toxic' with police, high profile pressure groups, and all sorts of headlines in the press.

Comic shop is tamest its even been today.