Boring Metropolis?

[Jim Kelly]

I'm just going to assume that everyone else here but me lives in New York City. And this is why they think the New York styled cities--as Metropolis and Gotham City used to be--are boring. For me New York was always a place of wonder and excitement. It made sense that Stan Lee had most of the Marvel heroes living there. I always dreamed of seeing that city, and when I finally did, I was not bored.

I would just as soon Metropolis and Gotham stayed as analogues for New York. Superman's city might be a bit cleaner and Batman's city might have more underground caverns--but the big American city was always exciting enough for me. I don't need flying cars or German Expressionistic towers to get my heart racing.

[Vakanai]

And none of them have power armor or spaceships or moon bases like Lex and Bruce do. Why isn’t cloning widespread given that the DCU knows how to do it? How come there hasn’t been a resurgence in the worship of the pagan gods given Diana is living proof they exist? The DCU is similar to the real world because DC has logically plotted out why it wouldn’t be, but because they just plain ignore what the realistic fallout would be of the superhero setting.

I don’t think flying cars are ever coming, but so what? A man can fly because the sun is the right color. Batman can outpreptime Cthulhu when he’s in the JL, but can’t contain the Arkham Rogues. Superman can lift infinity in one book and struggle with an airplane in another. These types of inconsistencies are simply the price we pay for a shared universe. I’m fine with Metropolis being the most advanced city on the planet if it makes for a cooler setting, regardless of “why don’t other cities have that tech?” The number one concern is what makes the Superman setting more interesting, and frankly I don’t care if that means it doesn’t fit in as well with the larger setting, anymore than Batman writers care if Gotham does.

In that case... I don't find a futuristic setting all that interesting. Flying cars in Metropolis would bore me. I prefer a setting close enough to picture Superman in our world however unrealistic that is. If I want a future city I'll watch Blade Runner or something. I just like to see Superman smashing cars that actually exist upside Brainiac's head instead of flying cars. It's just cooler to me to see someone so impossible interacting with a world I can recognize.

[Myskin]

I'm just going to assume that everyone else here but me lives in New York City. And this is why they think the New York styled cities--as Metropolis and Gotham City used to be--are boring. For me New York was always a place of wonder and excitement. It made sense that Stan Lee had most of the Marvel heroes living there. I always dreamed of seeing that city, and when I finally did, I was not bored.

I would just as soon Metropolis and Gotham stayed as analogues for New York. Superman's city might be a bit cleaner and Batman's city might have more underground caverns--but the big American city was always exciting enough for me. I don't need flying cars or German Expressionistic towers to get my heart racing.

Quite frankly, I do. In a sci-fi book, that's more or less what I'd need.
But this is like the 9th or 10th time I've talked about this topic on CBR forum. For once, I'll simply quote Mr Kurt Busiek.

I think the old saw about Metropolis being midtown Manhattan at noon, and Gotham being downtown Manhattan at night makes a lot of sense.

But the thing is, it's easier to exaggerate downtown Manhattan.

So when they try to make Metropolis more interesting looking, they tend to drop back to the 30s and make it a 30s vision of the future, all Deco elegance. But that doesn't make Metropolis look like the City of Tomorrow, it makes it look like the City of Yesterday's Tomorrow. It's nice, but it's more nostalgic than forward-looking.

(original here: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...42#post5013942 )

[Vordan]

In that case... I don't find a futuristic setting all that interesting. Flying cars in Metropolis would bore me. I prefer a setting close enough to picture Superman in our world however unrealistic that is. If I want a future city I'll watch Blade Runner or something. I just like to see Superman smashing cars that actually exist upside Brainiac's head instead of flying cars. It's just cooler to me to see someone so impossible interacting with a world I can recognize.

And that’s totally cool, but I’m the opposite. “Realism” in comics is pretty dull to me, I far prefer much stronger science fiction influences over “NYC in the daytime”.

[Adekis]

I rarely go for realism. Often I like those realism-adjacent aesthetics, "pulpy," "gritty," or "noir," but rarely is "realistic" specifically the thing I love to see.

[Vakanai]

And that’s totally cool, but I’m the opposite. “Realism” in comics is pretty dull to me, I far prefer much stronger science fiction influences over “NYC in the daytime”.

Well it's only realism in how the city looks or feels. It better contrasts the fantastic that is Superman. If the city belongs in a science fiction book, it kind of makes Superman less fantastic. He's just another neat thing in a whole city of neat things. Just doesn't seem right to make the setting so fantastic it risks upstaging him. Again, why not just watch some other sci-fi movie set in the future?

[Jim Kelly]

It seems to me that, before they moved to California, most of the people that worked for D.C. either lived in the New York area or had at least lived around there for enough time that they knew the city and its culture. So the stories they created drew upon their experiences. Artists were often using the surrounding architecture as reference material. I don't think they were looking back at a bygone era, they were looking at the place as it existed at the time of the stories they were creating. But maybe heightened or perfected for the sake of plot and drama.

I find that the trend at the beginning of this century toward making the world completely different from our world--and somehow "futuristic" (but only if you're an idiot)--undermined the story. Look at what Nolan did on the Batman movies. The first one was that combination of steampunk and retro-futurism superimposed on Chicago which felt artificial. But then in the second one he just used Chicago as it was--which worked a lot better for the story telling.

[Restingvoice]

We’ve had this discussion a couple times and I always enjoy talking about it, because yeah I do think Metropolis could be better than how it usually is. Here’s what “my” Metropolis would look like:
Rich areas:

To be rich in Metropolis is to be catered to like no other. This is the “Shining City On A Hill”, the envy of the world. If you only saw this area you’d think the city was a utopia, and that’s precisely how city officials want it. People here view Superman as an amusing anachronism, an oaf who keeps the riffraff out and upholds the status quo.

Middle areas:

I think the “retrofuture” look is where the middle class of Metropolis live. Comfortably enough but with a sense of underlying unease. After all “retrofuture” implies something that’s no longer up to date. What does their “actual” future look like? That’s their fear that Supes must confront. The people here are his strongest supporters.

Poor areas:

The poor areas of Metropolis should look post apocalyptic, like a bomb went off (and maybe it did!). These are where Metropolis Mega-Corps dump their unsuccessful experiments. It’s where black ops projects like Cadmus operate, abducting people off the street to be used for unethical means. The people here have very bitter feelings towards Superman, believing he’s failed them. This area is where Clark should start out living in, like he does in Morrison Action Comics and Wolfman’s Man & Superman. Eventually Clark rises to the middle class area but he’s painfully aware of how many people are still living in squalor.

This. Cyberpunk as a genre actually works really well with Superman, the building blocks are already there: An all-powerful megacorp that runs the City (Lexcorp), dying centers of traditional authority (Daily Planet), opulent wealth living alongside total squalor (Downtown/Suicide Slum). Add in a focus on immigration, which can tie in very well with Superman, and out of control technology and I think you could go a long way to giving Metropolis some character. I mean ultimately the question you have to answer is why is Superman in Metropolis instead of anywhere else? Why does that city need him? So there need to be threats and problems there only he can solve in order to show why there and not somewhere else.

Only the rich can afford it? DCU tech application already doesn’t make much sense. Batman apparently is able to build a private satellite in orbit with company funds which no one really minds. STAR Labs has teleportation devices. Lexcorp has mech suits. Really the world of the DCU shouldn’t resemble our world at all. Metropolis should definitely have some high sci-fi areas imo. You can’t hamstring the setting by saying it won’t fit with the rest of the DCU, it already doesn’t. The DCU is made up of various fiefdoms that don’t mesh perfectly together at all. Nobody cares, they just want an interesting story.

I like the Acropolis one. Even without the flying cars it looks reasonable enough with the main futurism being that high rise railroad.

The first one's too much.

[magha_regulus]

We’ve had this discussion a couple times and I always enjoy talking about it, because yeah I do think Metropolis could be better than how it usually is. Here’s what “my” Metropolis would look like:
Rich areas:

To be rich in Metropolis is to be catered to like no other. This is the “Shining City On A Hill”, the envy of the world. If you only saw this area you’d think the city was a utopia, and that’s precisely how city officials want it. People here view Superman as an amusing anachronism, an oaf who keeps the riffraff out and upholds the status quo.

Middle areas:

I think the “retrofuture” look is where the middle class of Metropolis live. Comfortably enough but with a sense of underlying unease. After all “retrofuture” implies something that’s no longer up to date. What does their “actual” future look like? That’s their fear that Supes must confront. The people here are his strongest supporters.

Poor areas:

The poor areas of Metropolis should look post apocalyptic, like a bomb went off (and maybe it did!). These are where Metropolis Mega-Corps dump their unsuccessful experiments. It’s where black ops projects like Cadmus operate, abducting people off the street to be used for unethical means. The people here have very bitter feelings towards Superman, believing he’s failed them. This area is where Clark should start out living in, like he does in Morrison Action Comics and Wolfman’s Man & Superman. Eventually Clark rises to the middle class area but he’s painfully aware of how many people are still living in squalor.

This. Cyberpunk as a genre actually works really well with Superman, the building blocks are already there: An all-powerful megacorp that runs the City (Lexcorp), dying centers of traditional authority (Daily Planet), opulent wealth living alongside total squalor (Downtown/Suicide Slum). Add in a focus on immigration, which can tie in very well with Superman, and out of control technology and I think you could go a long way to giving Metropolis some character. I mean ultimately the question you have to answer is why is Superman in Metropolis instead of anywhere else? Why does that city need him? So there need to be threats and problems there only he can solve in order to show why there and not somewhere else.

Only the rich can afford it? DCU tech application already doesn’t make much sense. Batman apparently is able to build a private satellite in orbit with company funds which no one really minds. STAR Labs has teleportation devices. Lexcorp has mech suits. Really the world of the DCU shouldn’t resemble our world at all. Metropolis should definitely have some high sci-fi areas imo. You can’t hamstring the setting by saying it won’t fit with the rest of the DCU, it already doesn’t. The DCU is made up of various fiefdoms that don’t mesh perfectly together at all. Nobody cares, they just want an interesting story.

I totally agree with you, with the added detail that i'd have him stay in that Suicide Slum area his entire career, even convincing lois to move there once they are married. I'd also flip the perspectives of the people about superman just a bit. I'd have the rich view him as an annoying and somewhat dangerous interference/threat with many sharing Luthor's views while the poor people would see Superman as their champion. He'd help to improve conditions there over time but would be in a never ending battle against the corrupt interests keeping resources away from the people who need them most.

[Vordan]

Well it's only realism in how the city looks or feels. It better contrasts the fantastic that is Superman. If the city belongs in a science fiction book, it kind of makes Superman less fantastic. He's just another neat thing in a whole city of neat things. Just doesn't seem right to make the setting so fantastic it risks upstaging him. Again, why not just watch some other sci-fi movie set in the future?

I disagree. A flying alien man in a strongman outfit from the circus is always going to stand out. Also the desire to keep things “realistic” usually just makes Superman look inept. Batman kicked the Mafia out of Gotham, but Superman could never dislodge Kingpin Luthor off his throne? Supes works best when he’s facing scaled up versions of the problems we face, unless you’re willing to scale back his powers to make him better fit the more grounded setting. A more “out there” city has more “out there” problems that make for more interesting challenges for him.

If you want a more “realistic” setting with a super powered protagonist, Spider-Man is a better fit for that imo.

I totally agree with you, with the added detail that i'd have him stay in that Suicide Slum area his entire career, even convincing lois to move there once they are married. I'd also flip the perspectives of the people about superman just a bit. I'd have the rich view him as an annoying and somewhat dangerous interference/threat with many sharing Luthor's views while the poor people would see Superman as their champion. He'd help to improve conditions there over time but would be in a never ending battle against the corrupt interests keeping resources away from the people who need them most.

That’s not a bad idea. In my “ideal” run Supes would be a proponent of the downtrodden and would bring attention to the areas of Metropolis the higher ups would rather ignore, because they want to maintain the popular conception of Metropolis as the city where everything is perfect.

[Ra-El]

We’ve had this discussion a couple times and I always enjoy talking about it, because yeah I do think Metropolis could be better than how it usually is. Here’s what “my” Metropolis would look like:
Rich areas:

To be rich in Metropolis is to be catered to like no other. This is the “Shining City On A Hill”, the envy of the world. If you only saw this area you’d think the city was a utopia, and that’s precisely how city officials want it. People here view Superman as an amusing anachronism, an oaf who keeps the riffraff out and upholds the status quo.

Middle areas:

I think the “retrofuture” look is where the middle class of Metropolis live. Comfortably enough but with a sense of underlying unease. After all “retrofuture” implies something that’s no longer up to date. What does their “actual” future look like? That’s their fear that Supes must confront. The people here are his strongest supporters.

Poor areas:

I think if tone down a little all 3 scenarios, this would be it. The first one, lose the flying cars, the second one keep it as it is, the third remove the abandoned cars and the broken asphalt.

If, they have to go with a more "realistic" look, they could look at the most recent advance in futuristic, sustainable and smart architecture, a search on google will show some projects of buildings that could be from a sci-fi movie.

[Vakanai]

I disagree. A flying alien man in a strongman outfit from the circus is always going to stand out. Also the desire to keep things “realistic” usually just makes Superman look inept. Batman kicked the Mafia out of Gotham, but Superman could never dislodge Kingpin Luthor off his throne? Supes works best when he’s facing scaled up versions of the problems we face, unless you’re willing to scale back his powers to make him better fit the more grounded setting. A more “out there” city has more “out there” problems that make for more interesting challenges for him.

I'm just talking about the city, not the problems he faces. Batman got rid of the mob - so did Superman. But just because he fights Zod and Bizarro doesn't mean that the background should look like it came out of The Fifth Element. I just want to read Superman, not the World of Tomorrow Transported Today! Plus Superman.

I mean if freaking Superman isn't awesome or fantastic enough for you, maybe Star Wars is the franchise you should be checking out?

Look, he has space adventures, he shrinks to visit a bottled city, he hangs out with friends in the future, one setting that kind of resembles our world but with supervillains isn't much of an ask here. I don't need Metropolis to be some sci-fi city out of Hollywood's CGI wet dream, seeing Superman doing Superman things is enough.

But hey each their own. But the further you push Metropolis in that direction, the more I think you should just go all the way and have Terry McGinnis as Batman in the next team up (and I'd name other future version characters of the Justice League but I don't know any others).

[Vakanai]

If you want a more “realistic” setting with a super powered protagonist, Spider-Man is a better fit for that imo.

Or I could just keep reading one of my favorite characters in the same city as it's been portrayed for decades and watch Futurama when I get into the future city mood. Metropolis hasn't been that level of sci-fi traditionally, why the need to change it completely now?

[Vakanai]

If, they have to go with a more "realistic" look, they could look at the most recent advance in futuristic, sustainable and smart architecture, a search on google will show some projects of buildings that could be from a sci-fi movie.

This is more how I view Metropolis. Advanced, cutting edge, bleeding edge, always on the forefront, always pushing ahead, but ultimately close enough to our level and what is possible that we can strive for it.

[JAK]

I think if tone down a little all 3 scenarios, this would be it. The first one, lose the flying cars, the second one keep it as it is, the third remove the abandoned cars and the broken asphalt.

If, they have to go with a more "realistic" look, they could look at the most recent advance in futuristic, sustainable and smart architecture, a search on google will show some projects of buildings that could be from a sci-fi movie.

This. And I also like the idea that the rich people who can afford to live in the affluent area also don't have the best tech - for power/control reasons, that's kept to Lex and a few others he selects, and he does that specifically so that he can - in his own way - make as grand an entrance as Superman.

When pressed, he says "the flying prototype isn't ready for mass production" when he actually has a lot of them, he's just not going to tell the rubes (they're all rubes to him) that.

Metropolis can have some futuristic elements, but it can't go fully sci-fi because there needs to be ability for variety in stories and Superman should still stand out. It's not that Metropolis needs him so much that he chose it. That's going to have an effect on the city, but it won't propel it 20 years down the road: mass-produced tech doesn't stay in one area anymore, even with monetary barriers. Lex is hard to shake because he's "solely responsible" for the bits of future the city does have, but they have it in such a way that they can't transport it (bad example, but think "space phone with a cord"). So that gives the city a futuristic feel that is only so futuristic because it has to be tied to the city (if that makes any sense).

So instead of the full "Brainiac future" city we had, there are pieces here and there. That lends well to sci-fi while still allowing for more grounded stories where the surroundings don't kill the mood of it - and both should be possible for Superman stories.

Speaking of the B13 version of Metropolis, I recently saw cut scene footage of the XBox "Superman: Man of Steel" game and... wow, does that future ever look dated!!