Young Justice Series ENDED

[Masterff]

Hello,
it was announced that Young Justice will finish in November with Issue 20.
I would like to discuss the problems which the Series had (according to me):

1. Wonder Comics Label
Sorry, it never made any sense for me to shift Young Justice to the Wonder Comics Label.
This (in my opinion) was one of the big problems which Young Justice had. I understand the Idea of the Wonder Comics Label, but Conner, Cassie, Bart and Tim are already around for almost 30 years and they work better in Comics like Red Hood, Outsiders etc. etc.
It would have been better to let SuperSons and Damians Generation fill in this role and give Conner, Cassie, Bart and Tim Stories which are more like the Outsiders, Red Hood etc.
Bigger enemies, mature storylines etc.

2. It wasn’t a Continuity of the “old” adventures, it was rather a new start
Conner, Cassie and Bart seemed more to be new heroes who just got their powers etc. instead of having years of experience behind them.
They were displayed as insecure etc. instead of being the experienced leaders.

3. I was glad that Conner, Cassie and Bart were back, but I didn’t like the new interpretation:
I don’t know how to explain, but I try to do it:

I really LOVED Wally West new introduction in REBIRTH-it was a cool, modern and fresh interpretation of the original look.

In Conners and Barts case instead I don’t like the Rebirth Look.

In Barts Case the costume looks exactly like the old one.
In Conners Case the costume is similar to the Kessel Pre-Flashpoint Version, but the changes (patches, beard, short sleeves) made it look worse for me than the original one.

In both case I would like to see a modernization of their looks.
Especially in Conners case I think a little modernization would have helped..

4. The Team was to big
The Team should have only had 6-8 members.
The new characters took the spotlight often away from the Core 4 and especially Conner and Cassie were often left aside.
We waited so long to see the Core 4 and then we got books which explain origins of new characters like Teen Lantern, Hex….

5. I don’t understand why they have chosen to add this people to YJ:
Amethyst was ok, also Jackson, but there would have been better choices than Arrowette, Spoiler, Dial H for Hero, Teen Lantern, Wonder Twins…
There are many people of YJ-TT times like Empress, Secret, Bunker, Bombshell, Miss Martian, Blue Beetle, Traci13 etc. etc. etc. who would have been great as additions to the team.

6. The first arc should have been short:
It would have been MUCH better if the first arc would have been short and so they would have encountered their mentors in Issue 6 or so.
So there would have been a chance to clear the timeline-issues fast and we would have got answers etc.

7. They had a big role in Pre-Flashpoint and started with good sales in Rebirth, but they lost soon the hype
I was really happy to see the Core 4 coming back, but I was disappointed how they were displayed.
The first issue and also the second issue had good sales, but then it declined.
I thought they would get a big role etc. but the team seemed more like a regular Teen Team instead of a team with long experience etc.

It was especially strange if you compare YJ with TT.
Wallace-Bart, Jon-Conner….YJ had more experience etc. so they should have been portrayed as older, bigger stars, more powerful and being in the Crossovers-but during Rebirth it seemed more that YJ was the rookie team and TT the more experienced Team with the bigger stars.

8. Covers etc. showed things which didn’t happen in the Comics then:
First famous example was Conners “baby”.
In the first issues Martha had blue eyes and black hairs like Conner, then in the last issue where we have seen her Martha had brown eyes.
Second famous example was Warlord Conner:
He was on Cover, but he remained “normal” without helmet, sword etc.
Third famous example was TTK on Cover:
One Cover had him with blue glowing hands, which would have been a sign of TTK, but he didn’t use it in Comic.

9. Cassie and Conner were really different than the other incarnations of them

I) Conner:
A Costume: This YJ costume should refer to the Kessel Version of Conner, BUT the Kessel Version simply looked a million times better.
In my opinion it changed for the worse:
The patches, the short sleeves and the beard made it look worse, in my opinion compared to the Kessel Version.
B Body Type: Conner looked also much skinnier than the previous Conner Versions in Pre-Flashpoint
C Personality: I LOVED the Kessel Version who was the funny, trash-talking Guy and I LOVED the Johns TT Version who was calm, but ready for any fight etc.
This YJ Conner was cool in the first appearance, however I quickly became annoyed with this Conner when he kneeled down as the soldiers came etc.
This was plainly not the Conner which I knew, who also wasn’t scared of fighting Superboy Prime etc. and they here were only “normal” soldiers.
In the encounter with Superman he sounded more like a fanboy than the original Conner
D Power Level: We didn’t see him in many fights, but if we consider his TT Time than he seemed at least for me to became weaker than his previous incarnations.
E Memories: We have seen this in the encounters with Superman, that he lost much of his memories
F Look: Conner always looked like a young version of Clark, during YJ he looked different than Clark. In YJ Anime for example he only

II) Cassie:
A Costume: It was better than the YJ Costume, but I prefer the Injustice Comic Costume and the NEW52 red suit Costume.
B Character: I HATED the character of this Version. I liked the TT Cassie who was self-confident, leading the TT and also being brave etc.
She also lead the Titans in the fight against Superboy Prime etc.
C: Origin: I HATE the new Origin and I loved the Pre-Flashpoint Origin which was much better and made her different than Diana.

10. Age:
It never made any sense for me to have TT and YJ at a similar age.
It would have been better to bring Conner, Bart and Cassie back with ages around 20.
It would have given them more freedom etc. to act.

11. Storylines and Enemies:
I really didn’t like the storylines and the enemies (not counting Earth 3 and Legion of Doom) were many levels under the villains which they encountered as TT.
Conner already had encounters with Doomsday Clone, Magog, Aquaman, Superboy Prime, Cyborg Superman etc. etc. and during YJ Run he fought against Lizard Soldiers with Kryptonite Swords, Lord Opal etc.

12. I wished to get Conner-Cassie back:
Conner and Cassie were the best couple in DC for me and it would have been awesome to see them back as couple again.

13. YJ was for me a HUGE step back for Conner, Cassie, Tim and Bart
In the recent Flash Comic Reverse Flash talked about it:
Bart was Impulse then became Kid Flash, then Flash and then Kid Flash again.
Now being Impulse again was a huge step back for me and I would rather have liked to see him with a new Costume and Code-Name.

Tim became Robin at the beginning of this YJ series, then he became Drake and in future he will be Robin again.

The return of the Core 4 seemed more like a repetition of their adventures in old YJ rather then continuing their story.
They were de-aged and got their old Code-Names back

14. Feats and reactions of people to them:
Conner, Cassie and Bart didn’t accomplish awesome things since their return.
The biggest feats were the destroying of the HQ by Conner and Cassie defeating Despero
The rest was was only a normal little journey especially if you compare Conners feats in Rebirth to Conners Feats in Pre-Flashpoint.

Reaction of people to them:
Cassie was only welcomed as niece of Diana, without people remembering her Pre-Flashpoint History
Nobody remembered Conner, not even he himself

In Conners case it was especially problematic since Jon has completely replaced him and became member of LoSh, was aged up fast etc.
Jonathan Samuel Kent and Bizarro simply accomplished more feats etc. during Rebirth.

15. They weren’t included in the major DC Events and had little interactions with the JL etc.
Wallace for example is in Speed Metal while Bart seemingly is not there.

16. The Team never had a real purpose for me
Pre-Flashpoint for example with no Titans, they were simply the followers of the JL.
In Rebirth now they seemed to be only another Teen Team. But there were already the TT.
So it would have made more sense, to make the team different and give them a purpose like the Outsiders etc.

[Masterff]

I am really sad, since I am a big Fan of the Core 4 and we have seen that many people bought the first issue of the Comics.

I am sure that the series would have been successfull if the first arc would have been short, would have had included only the core 4 and if the 4 would have been aged up and would have got their legacy back.

It would have been cool to see the Core 4 like Artemis,Red Hood and Bizarro in their book or like the Outsiders.



Impulse has great chances to become like DC Spider-Man

Superboy would have great chances to become the leader of this day youth, with a little modernized look etc.

For Cassie I always imaginated her to become a kind of mix of Black Canary and Wonder Woman.

[Restingvoice]

Number 5. most likely because Young Justice is the known brand that they use to carry Wonder Comics. The core 4 coming back is big news, the fans will flock to them, so they use that to carry the new characters as well.

[Denkota]

Welp the whole thing was a snoozefest from start to finish. Perhaps yj was a concept that worked in pre flashpoint continuity but here they just couldn't find a spot for them to occupy. The Titans Teen Titans and YJ group are not the same draw they were before it seems. Perhaps YJ would have fared better if they had sacrificed the epic journey type storyline and just focused on the yj crew getting together back to stop Bedlam from manipulating Reality or something similar.

[married guy]

I gave Bendis a fair chance.
I stuck with this book for 12 issues before dropping it.
As much as I wanted to love it, it just wasn't good.
A full year of stories and there was no forward momentum.
No explanation as to how the characters returned and the new additions were nothing but wallpaper.
Just a massive disappointment.

[SuperX]

Bendis was the reason we got the YJ4 back, but also where all thr problems with the book are.

[Blue22]

I wish I could say that I'm sad about this series ending. But I dropped it, not too long after its first story arc. Young Justice has made me feel a lot of things in the past but never boredom. Until now. This was the one series I thought Bendis would do right. The one series that I was actually kinda happy to see him on. Clearly, even the small amount of faith I had in this guy was still too much.

Bendis was the reason we got the YJ4 back, but also where all thr problems with the book are.

Was he? Or was he just the reason we got Cassie back? If I recall, Bart was already back before Bendis came onto the scene and they'd been hinting at Conner returning since Rebirth. I feel like Young Justice would have happened, with or without Bendis. It was just a matter of when.

[Jadeb]

I’m as big a YJ fan as anyone but this book proved to be dull and directionless. It was infected with the same problems plaguing DC as a whole: Too much navel-gazing about continuity and too much emphasis on mystery boxes that don’t pay off (or take way too long to pay off). YJ is the prefect property to tell fast, fun stories that are accessible to new readers, but instead they went with ... this. How depressing.

[Frontier]

I guess the book was decent fun and I was happy to see the characters back and relatively in-character but by the end of the second trade it didn't feel like anything had actually happened or the team was actually developing at all. It feels like you could've cut the sequence of events by 6-8 issues.

[Denkota]

The characters voices were off from what their typical depictions were to the point that they seemed to be caricatures instead of fleshed out characters. They were just puppets pulled in one or other direction at Bendis's whim in the series instead of just one progressive portrayal.

[skyvolt2000]

Was he? Or was he just the reason we got Cassie back? If I recall, Bart was already back before Bendis came onto the scene and they'd been hinting at Conner returning since Rebirth. I feel like Young Justice would have happened, with or without Bendis. It was just a matter of when.

Would you have been happy if that when was HEROES IN CRISIS with his death?

Remember how these guys were being done under the previous editorial reign. Bendis probably saved a lot of of them from worst fates.

It probably would have been better if they started with the core 4 for the first arc and then expanded with folks that fans wanted to see like Jaime Reyes. Nobody asked for yet anohter Green Lantern in a franchise that has been at war with each other for years now.

[Digifiend]

I wish I could say that I'm sad about this series ending. But I dropped it, not too long after its first story arc. Young Justice has made me feel a lot of things in the past but never boredom. Until now. This was the one series I thought Bendis would do right. The one series that I was actually kinda happy to see him on. Clearly, even the small amount of faith I had in this guy was still too much.



Was he? Or was he just the reason we got Cassie back? If I recall, Bart was already back before Bendis came onto the scene and they'd been hinting at Conner returning since Rebirth. I feel like Young Justice would have happened, with or without Bendis. It was just a matter of when.

Yeah, Bart's been back since Flash #50.

[ZeroBG82]

I feel like part of the problem here was the focus on the continuity issues. Yeah, maybe for some they needed to be worked out. But they dragged all the momentum out of the run. Well, that and Bendis. The Third Law of Bendis: Thy Team Books Shall Be Bloated and Directionless. The man has never written a team book that didn't suck.

Then again, I think part of my issue is the fact that they're a team at all. Don't waste time making them a superhero team, don't justify their existence. They're a bunch of friends. They hang out. And because they're heroes, they hang out as heroes, and hero stuff happens. Then again, part of the charm of the original run of Young Justice was the kind of wacky, frenetic tone. Anything could happen in a given issue, in terms of the plot, and it always felt like things were moving. It felt dynamic and ever-changing. Really captured the spirit of youthfulness, in that way. And Bendis just isn't good at that kind of thing. He's much more grounded. He likes his angst and his trauma.

For an example of what I mean: I kept waiting for a scene where the group hears Kelli's origin story and all reacts to it. I imagined Bart would keep asking her to make increasingly ludicrous constructs, just because she could. Conner would probably want to prove he was stronger than her constructs, all bravado. Cassie would be most interested in the power battery artifact itself, where it came from and what they could learn from it. And Tim would be sitting in the corner, certain that something in the story didn't quite add up but not entirely sure what. Just a bunch of teens sitting around learning about, and messing around with, their friend's new tech. But we never got anything like that, a chance for the characters to just bounce off one another and show how they fit together and why they all hang out. The kind of indulgent, fun and character driven scene that the characters thrive in. But they were all just pawns of plot, moving pieces to the next thing that needs to happen. It all feels lifeless. Which is the last thing a teen book should feel.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I'm enjoying the book, but it moves at a snails pace. The roster was bloated before everyone was fleshed out as well. I did really like Jinny and Kelli, but they got lost in the mix, especially Kelli. While the continuity issues certainly did need fixing, they spent way too much time on them. Even in the most current issue, Conner goes on about it. 16 issues in! We at least got Conner and Cassie back, and I'm grateful for that.

[Konja7]

I feel like part of the problem here was the focus on the continuity issues. Yeah, maybe for some they needed to be worked out. But they dragged all the momentum out of the run. Well, that and Bendis. The Third Law of Bendis: Thy Team Books Shall Be Bloated and Directionless. The man has never written a team book that didn't suck.

Then again, I think part of my issue is the fact that they're a team at all. Don't waste time making them a superhero team, don't justify their existence. They're a bunch of friends. They hang out. And because they're heroes, they hang out as heroes, and hero stuff happens. Then again, part of the charm of the original run of Young Justice was the kind of wacky, frenetic tone. Anything could happen in a given issue, in terms of the plot, and it always felt like things were moving. It felt dynamic and ever-changing. Really captured the spirit of youthfulness, in that way. And Bendis just isn't good at that kind of thing. He's much more grounded. He likes his angst and his trauma.

For an example of what I mean: I kept waiting for a scene where the group hears Kelli's origin story and all reacts to it. I imagined Bart would keep asking her to make increasingly ludicrous constructs, just because she could. Conner would probably want to prove he was stronger than her constructs, all bravado. Cassie would be most interested in the power battery artifact itself, where it came from and what they could learn from it. And Tim would be sitting in the corner, certain that something in the story didn't quite add up but not entirely sure what. Just a bunch of teens sitting around learning about, and messing around with, their friend's new tech. But we never got anything like that, a chance for the characters to just bounce off one another and show how they fit together and why they all hang out. The kind of indulgent, fun and character driven scene that the characters thrive in. But they were all just pawns of plot, moving pieces to the next thing that needs to happen. It all feels lifeless. Which is the last thing a teen book should feel.

Bendis tries to justify the existence of the team in YJ? Most of the time the team doesn't seem to have a real explanation to be together.

I feel the only reason why I should care about these characters as a team (or individually) is because I know them in the past.

If this was my entry point to YJ4, I wouldn't care for the team at all.