What do (should) all the Marvel scientists specialize in?

[davew128]

I think Otto Octavius should get the nuclear radiation crown here. Way back when, when Sue was in trouble carrying Valeria, while Banner was there, it was Octavius that Reed sought out for help as the top guy.

[Huntsman Spider]

Reading through the thread really shows Marvel's (in fact, DC as well) have short-changed women. All because of institutionalized misogyny that was rampant during the start of the atomic age, let only white men to be super-scientists. Women could only be the supportive wife/girlfriend. It wasn't until Black Panther that a black man was seen as smart as the top intellects like Richards, Stark, Banner, Xavier and Pym. Thankfully there was Moira MacTaggert, but when Marvel needed a geneticist that specialized in mutation more often than not, Marvel would use Hank or Xavier, because they were the "heroes" while she was just a supporting character.
Even when women like Bobbi who started off as a scientist was created, she hardly ever showed those skills once she became Mockingbird. I can't even remember her doing any super-science stuff in West Coast Avengers, especially with Pym around.


The few female super-scientist Marvel did create never took off, like Monica Rappaccini (MANDOK will always be thought of as the Leader of AIM before her), Maya Hansen (what has she done lately), Doctor Minerva (she could never stand up to villains like Doom, Doc Ock, the Leader, Magneto, the Mad Tinkerer or any of the 60s evil geniuses)

And that's the main problem, the super smart women mainly weren't super heroes or remediable super villains.

Thankfully Marvel now have Valeria Richards, Moon-Girl, Ironheart, and Nadia van Dyne as the next generation of super-scientists (I'm not a fan of Marvel's re-imaging Shuri as her MCU counterpart [making her a younger tech genius] over Coates' griot spiritual powers that set her apart from T'Challa).

I'm also not a fan of the trend of Marvel giving "housewives" the same job as their husbands. In many adaptations, Betty Ross is often made a scientist in the same field as Bruce. In Spectacular Spider-Man, Curt Connors wife was also made a scientist.

It felt like it reinforced the idea that they were defined by their male relationships rather than subvert them.

Tilda Johnson aka Nightshade and more recently Nighthawk (didn't read the Secret Empire stuff where she took on that mantle) should be mentioned.

Her specialties are given as genetics, cybergenics and physics






Doom is pretty good about securing his robotic creations. Many of the Doombots are cannon fodder (say what you will, not many Latverians get killed in the line of service) and don't have as sophisticated programming as those that can act as a sort of surrogate for Doom. But in his presence, they will revert back to their subservient programming. Odd to say but Doom does have some attachment to some of his Doombots, like the one he keeps in a dungeon in Books of Doom. He's too dangerous to let loose but Doom hasn't destroyed him either. There was also an interesting story about a Doombot in the Gwenpool series. He was going to be Doom's most advanced version but there was an attack on Doom's lab and the nearly complete Doombot escaped. He's like Pinocchio in a way in that when he escaped Doom's lab he was taken in by a kindly old man who gave him a suit of clothes. He worked in the shop with the old man and became the protector of his neighborhood.

I think Otto Octavius should get the nuclear radiation crown here. Way back when, when Sue was in trouble carrying Valeria, while Banner was there, it was Octavius that Reed sought out for help as the top guy.

Nuclear physicist with a sideline in cybernetics, as he did create the tentacles that have become his iconic arsenal to handle radioactive materials that were too dangerous to be touched even with gloved hands. Given the excellent point raised earlier about female super-scientists not getting their due, I appreciate Iron Maiden mentioning Tilda Johnson/Nightshade and I would also throw in Carolyn Trainer, Otto's onetime successor back in the 90s, as a specialist in computers and digital technology with virtual reality.

[GenericUsername]

But he's not practicing anymore.

Besides, he was a neurosurgeon. He didn't know everything there was to know about medicine.

Tell Marvel that. Because he's also been an OBGYN and a therapist at times. He went back to practicing as a surgeon at times too.

[DrNewGod]

Contrarian Alert:

I don't have a problem with comic heroes being polymaths. It's part of being "super." Rather than confining each to one or two areas, what I could see is picking a few to wall off. For example, maybe Mr. Fantastic don't know jack about biology or anthropology. The Beast might be clueless about robotics or particle physics.

Pym's the only one that's really had to confine. He's played in everything.

T'Challa...Law doesn't really make much sense for him either since he's never operated as a lawman.

Except for that part where he's essentially a nation's supreme judge?

[Sutekh]

Wouldn't Hank Pym also be an entomologist, since he was studying ants to communicate with them and the technology he developed was in that vein?

He also developed Ultron and became 'the father of AI,' which seems all unrelated, but actually could tie into his ant-communication research from before, if he was working on parallel processing (how ant colonies can handle complex engineering tasks without any one ant truly understanding why they are digging that drainage tunnel or whatever) years before we were using it for computing in the real world. One thing (insect communication) leads logically to another (parallel processing computing) and even could be technobabbled into having some other ties (creating AI by imposing his own mental engrams onto Ultron being analoguous for using his ant-communication helmet to impose his own mental state on the ants he's controlling).

How that all ties into the Pym particle, well, perhaps he got into that research as yet another tangent / spin-off, quixotically questing for some theoretical particle that ants used to communicate with each other as a 'hive-mind' and stumbling onto the Pym particle instead (which wouldn't have anything to do with any sort of theoretical 'ant-telepathy,' since that's not a thing that even exists).

I kind of wondered if the Pym particle was going to have some ties to the Space stone being on Earth, in the MCU, since they have some thematic synergies, and it would have tied things together interestingly (more so than tying Wanda to the Mind stone, IMO).

[JudicatorPrime]

In the Marvel Universe since magic is such a big deal...Doctor Stephen Strange would qualify as one of the best scientists and smartest persons in that Universe.

I agree to an extent. But I also think just like with the sciences, magic should have branches with individuals who have mastered those individual areas of expertise. So there would be someone who leads the field in Dark magic, Chaos magic, Necromancy, Elemental magic, Light magic, etc. Being Sorcerer Supreme wouldn't necessarily mean that said person has mastered all forms of magic, or is the chief expert in every field.

As for Doom, I would probably create and/or identify a different branch of magic as well for him. I don't have a name for it -- maybe we can call "theomancy" or the use of primordial magic? This kind of magic is used by cosmic entities, gods, certain powerful elder demons, etc. It is the highest order of magic. Doom alone is the only human other than The Talisman who can use this magic for various effects. The very nature of this magic gives Doom the appearance that he is much more powerful a sorcerer than he actually is. Doom also wouldn't generate the primordial magic himself, but he would know how to extract it from the environment and store it for personal use. He may never again be God Emperor Doom, and I certainly don't recommend that he challenge Zom or anyone like that with only his finite personal store of primordial magic, but compared to most other Earthly magic wielders, Doom's magical prowess as a theomancer would be extremely formidable.

[Huntsman Spider]

He also developed Ultron and became 'the father of AI,' which seems all unrelated, but actually could tie into his ant-communication research from before, if he was working on parallel processing (how ant colonies can handle complex engineering tasks without any one ant truly understanding why they are digging that drainage tunnel or whatever) years before we were using it for computing in the real world. One thing (insect communication) leads logically to another (parallel processing computing) and even could be technobabbled into having some other ties (creating AI by imposing his own mental engrams onto Ultron being analoguous for using his ant-communication helmet to impose his own mental state on the ants he's controlling).

How that all ties into the Pym particle, well, perhaps he got into that research as yet another tangent / spin-off, quixotically questing for some theoretical particle that ants used to communicate with each other as a 'hive-mind' and stumbling onto the Pym particle instead (which wouldn't have anything to do with any sort of theoretical 'ant-telepathy,' since that's not a thing that even exists).

I kind of wondered if the Pym particle was going to have some ties to the Space stone being on Earth, in the MCU, since they have some thematic synergies, and it would have tied things together interestingly (more so than tying Wanda to the Mind stone, IMO).

That's a very good take on it, actually.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I agree to an extent. But I also think just like with the sciences, magic should have branches with individuals who have mastered those individual areas of expertise.

Maybe but the way it works in Marvel and the nature of serial storytelling is that magic is never going to stay in one lane and different writers are going to use it differently.

Doctor Strange is the Sorceror Supreme and generally accepted as the major expert of magic in the MU. Sure Loki is a more powerful and dangerous sorcerer but even Strange is seen as more knowledgeable than he.

Loki as the God of Stories and God of Lies would probably be the biggest literary critic in the Marvel Universe were literary criticism considered a science...though even then Doom had him beat by making him realize that Doom is a better story than Loki's.

He may never again be God Emperor Doom...

He was God in two instantly classic top-selling event stories (SW'84, SW'2015), so yeah he will be again whenever someone else gets nostalgic about Secret Wars again.

Mad Max FR I live meme.jpg

[JudicatorPrime]

Maybe but the way it works in Marvel and the nature of serial storytelling is that magic is never going to stay in one lane and different writers are going to use it differently.

I think they try, but you're right, all it takes is a new writer to take on a magical character and the next thing you know Scarlet Witch is no longer just the Master of Chaos Magic and Kaluu is no longer just the High Prince of the Dark Arts. Even Brother Voodoo (Dr. Voodoo, whatever) seems to have blurred his field of mystical expertise. Still, an old fella can dream.

[Frontier]

Pym's the only one that's really had to confine. He's played in everything.

Hank is also the Scientist Supreme, for whatever that's worth.

[scribbleMind]

I'm lazy right now. I don't wanna go to the previous page T_T to get a quote. I just want to tell Judicator that he's right. I jumped the gun a bit. The spider-man thing was particularly mind changing. I think you posted more but I hadn't read it because I already changed my mind at that point.

[JudicatorPrime]

I'm lazy right now. I don't wanna go to the previous page T_T to get a quote. I just want to tell Judicator that he's right. I jumped the gun a bit. The spider-man thing was particularly mind changing. I think you posted more but I hadn't read it because I already changed my mind at that point.

Thanks, I appreciate your acknowledgment, but totally not necessary. I personally do wish that Blue Marvel was written more like Doom and fully immersed in the occult and/or magic as a very real force in the cosmos. God knows, he's met and fought both with and against magical beings enough times that it's beyond character-breaking for him not to believe that magic exists. They keep writing him like he's the incredulous, unavailing lovechild of Clark Kent and Reed Richards. Pisses me off.

[Agent Z]

Reed Richards - Physics

Hank Pym - Biochemistry and nanotechnology

Tony Stark - Engineering and robotics

Bruce Banner - Radiology

Henry McCoy - Biology and medicine

Peter Parker - Engineering and chemistry

Blue Marvel - Physics