Sony Universe of Marvel (Spider-Man) Characters Movie Thread

[CosmiComic]

Your putting to much of what you think Spider-Man is based on things outside of the MCU, and not what the MCU has shown us their version of Spider-Man is.

What are you talking about? You seem to be expecting MCU Spider-Man to be something he's not

[Kevinroc]

What are you talking about? You seem to be expecting MCU Spider-Man to be something he's not

He already is something he's not.

[CosmiComic]

Peter Parker is not a super hero fanboy. Dude busted into the Baxter Building and beat the team up to demonstrate why they should hire him in the very first issue of Amazing Spider-Man. When they said they were non-profit, he left.

Lots of characters fulfill that role of super hero fan who later becomes a super hero (Kamala Khan, for instance). But that is not who Peter Parker is.

If he tried that with the Avengers, he'd get beat up

[CosmiComic]

He already is something he's not.

I'm not even sure where you're going with this

[Kevinroc]

If he tried that with the Avengers, he'd get beat up

Point is he wasn't the superpowered super hero fanboy the MCU turned him into.

I'm not even sure where you're going with this

They turned him into Iron Boy. We've already discussed this.

[CosmiComic]

Point is he wasn't the superpowered super hero fanboy the MCU turned him into.



They turned him into Iron Boy. We've already discussed this.

And I've already told you it's not a correct assessment.

[Kevinroc]

And I've already told you it's not a correct assessment.

All you've said is it isn't a correct assessment. The movies have focused on Iron Man as Peter's mentor. The villains are motivated by their hatred of Tony Stark. Iron Man is all over these films. These films have been structured around Peter's relationship to Iron Man.

When I watch a Spider-Man film, I want it to actually be a Spider-Man film, structured around Spider-Man and his world. If I want movies about other super heroes, I'll watch those movies. I don't recognize Spider-Man or his world in the MCU films.

[CosmiComic]

All you've said is it isn't a correct assessment. The movies have focused on Iron Man as Peter's mentor. The villains are motivated by their hatred of Tony Stark. Iron Man is all over these films. These films have been structured around Peter's relationship to Iron Man.

When I watch a Spider-Man film, I want it to actually be a Spider-Man film, structured around Spider-Man and his world. If I want movies about other super heroes, I'll watch those movies. I don't recognize Spider-Man or his world in the MCU films.

It's still about Spider-Man though. It's not like they've replace him with a different version or had him fight villains from other franchises, like what happened to other MCU heroes. I think you're exaggerating how much it's about Iron man.

[Kevinroc]

It's still about Spider-Man though. It's not like they've replace him with a different version or had him fight villains from other franchises, like what happened to other MCU heroes. I think you're exaggerating how much it's about Iron man.

What other Marvel heroes have had their core purpose changed in the MCU to the extant Spider-Man has? Hawkeye? As if Hawkeye is the equal of Spider-Man?

If you're going to actually use this as a defense of what they did to Spider-Man, you actually have to name them instead of just saying "other heroes got changed too".

[CosmiComic]

What other Marvel heroes have had their core purpose changed in the MCU to the extant Spider-Man has? Hawkeye? As if Hawkeye is the equal of Spider-Man?

If you're going to actually use this as a defense of what they did to Spider-Man, you actually have to name them instead of just saying "other heroes got changed too".

Hank Pym got aged up and was never a hero in the first place, Janet van Dyne got dumped in the Quantum Realm for 1.75 movies, and they were both original Avengers who never even interact with other heroes, or fight Ultron, who's more connected to them than to Tony Stark. Hawkeye's backstory was completely changed and he has almost no personality, and he and Black Widow were originally villains. Drax and Mantis were actually humans from Earth but underwent massive personality changes, especially Mantis who was a lot more capable. T'Chaka was killed by Zemo, not Klaw. Vision has no connection to Jarvis, but was instead connected to the original human torch. Quicksilver died in his first appearance. Thanos was a major foe of Mar-Vell, who also died in her first appearance in the MCU. Monica gained her powers from Scarlet Witch of all people. Falcon has no connection to the Cosmic Cube like in the comics, but Captain Marvel is powered by the Tesseract. That's a bunch of changes of varying degrees. What happened to Spider-Man that's so much worse or different? Why is Spider-Man so much more important than all those other heroes who didn't already get two movie series beforehand? Why's he so untouchable?

[Kevinroc]

Hank Pym got aged up and was never a hero in the first place, Janet van Dyne got dumped in the Quantum Realm for 1.75 movies, and they were both original Avengers who never even interact with other heroes, or fight Ultron, who's more connected to them than to Tony Stark. Hawkeye's backstory was completely changed and he has almost no personality, and he and Black Widow were originally villains. Drax and Mantis were actually humans from Earth but underwent massive personality changes, especially Mantis who was a lot more capable. T'Chaka was killed by Zemo, not Klaw. Vision has no connection to Jarvis, but was instead connected to the original human torch. Quicksilver died in his first appearance. Thanos was a major foe of Mar-Vell, who also died in her first appearance in the MCU. Monica gained her powers from Scarlet Witch of all people. That's a bunch of changes of varying degrees. What happened to Spider-Man that's so much worse or different? Why is Spider-Man so much more important than all those other heroes who didn't already get two movie series beforehand? Why's he so untouchable?

None of these characters are anywhere near Spider-Man's level. Not a single one of them.

And none of these changes are anywhere touching "he was a teen hero who stood on his own two feet" to "he's a super hero fanboy who was being mentored by Iron Man."

We know that they can do Spider-Man better. We've seen Spider-Man done better. There are even other Spider-Man films being made today that are better than what the MCU is offering (Spider-Verse, which did its job so well the MCU has clearly been taking notes for their next Spider-Man film).

[CosmiComic]

None of these characters are anywhere near Spider-Man's level. Not a single one of them.

And none of these changes are anywhere touching "he was a teen hero who stood on his own two feet" to "he's a super hero fanboy who was being mentored by Iron Man."

We know that they can do Spider-Man better. We've seen Spider-Man done better. There are even other Spider-Man films being made today that are better than what the MCU is offering (Spider-Verse, which did its job so well the MCU has clearly been taking notes for their next Spider-Man film).

See, this is what it's all about. Somehow Spider-Man is more deserving of comic book accuracy according to you. I disagree. He's the most famous Marvel hero but he's not above the rest. And a lot of those changes were much more of a deviation than what you're criticizing. Those other heroes have fans too. It's fine if you like him more or don't think the others are as good. There are plenty of heroes I'm indifferent to or outright dislike. But that's not the same as acting like only he gets to be adapted accurately.

I don't think all of MCU Spider-Man is the best he can be. He can surely be a lot better. But I'm not going to act like he's been poorly adapted so far.

[Kevinroc]

See, this is what it's all about. Somehow Spider-Man is more deserving of comic book accuracy according to you. I disagree. He's the most famous Marvel hero but he's not above the rest. And a lot of those changes were much more of a deviation than what you're criticizing. Those other heroes have fans too. It's fine if you like him more or don't think the others are as good. There are plenty of heroes I'm indifferent to or outright dislike. But that's not the same as acting like only he gets to be adapted accurately.

I don't think all of MCU Spider-Man is the best he can be. He can surely be a lot better. But I'm not going to act like he's been poorly adapted so far.

Spider-Man is an S-tier character, right up there with Superman and Batman. Even his supporting characters are more famous than some other leading characters. That's how significant Spider-Man is.

And this is a Spider-Man thread on a Spider-Man forum.

The MCU Spider-Man films are bad Spider-Man films that I wish we could shake off like a bad hangover.

(I'll also point out that The Avengers game by Square Enix flopped. The recent Spider-Man games by Insomniac have been ludicrously huge.)

[CosmiComic]

Spider-Man is an S-tier character, right up there with Superman and Batman. Even his supporting characters are more famous than some other leading characters. That's how significant Spider-Man is.

And this is a Spider-Man thread on a Spider-Man forum.

The MCU Spider-Man films are bad Spider-Man films that I wish we could shake off like a bad hangover.

(I'll also point out that The Avengers game by Square Enix flopped. The recent Spider-Man games by Insomniac have been ludicrously huge.)

I get how significant Spider-Man is, but that's part of the problem IMO. He's considered above all these other heroes. But they have their own lore too, and should get the same respect when being adapted. Frankly, putting all the effort into the one hero doesn't build a cinematic universe. I don't want to see just one hero get all the attention anymore.

And they're not bad films. You disagree with some of the choices made. That's ok, so do I in some ways. It doesn't make them bad.

And the Avengers game didn't fail because it's Avengers. This being a Spider-Man forum doesn't mean no one can say anything against Spider-Man or that he has to be worshipped above all

[Kevinroc]

I get how significant Spider-Man is, but that's part of the problem IMO. He's considered above all these other heroes. But they have their own lore too, and should get the same respect when being adapted. Frankly, putting all the effort into the one hero doesn't build a cinematic universe. I don't want to see just one hero get all the attention anymore.

And they're not bad films. You disagree with some of the choices made. That's ok, so do I in some ways. It doesn't make them bad.

And the Avengers game didn't fail because it's Avengers. This being a Spider-Man forum doesn't mean no one can say anything against Spider-Man or that he has to be worshipped above all

I said they're bad Spider-Man films, because they don't prioritize Spider-Man and his world. Iron Man should not be such an overwhelming presence in multiple Spider-Man movies.

This is a Spider-Man forum. So trying to make the argument that Spider-Man should share the spotlight with other heroes isn't a very compelling argument when the best Spider-Man movie of the last decade was Into the Spider-Verse, which didn't feature anyone but Spider-characters. (The closest non-Spider-character is Kingpin, and even he debuted in a Spider-Man comic, and has been the villain of quite a few Spidey stories.)

Spider-Man can absolutely survive without the MCU. And the day they finally separate is the day we might get good live-action Spider-Man films again. And a good movie means more than a mediocre cinematic universe.