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  1. #376
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Personally I just recently watched it so it's fresh in my head and I keep being reminded of it every time I see more from this movie .
    Personally I don't see how, since this movie actually looks good, unlike that...blegh. But please, don't tell me why you think they look similar. Like I said, comparing this movie to that one would just kill some of my enthusiasm, and I don't want that. Like I said, I thought The Long Halloween was an awful adaptation and was just an adaptation in name only. I didn't like it, and discussing it won't suddenly change how I feel about it. The only praise I can give to it was that it was only the second worst movie I saw last year.

    I didn't really get the sense that they didn't care for the story at all. Like, from interviews and the work they seemed to put into it from a production standpoint, even if they did make creative changes or liberties it seems like they tried to stay true to the spirit and core of the story. While Injustice just felt like a cash-grab.
    Maybe that's true, but if so then in my opinion they failed, and they did so spectacularly. Watching the final product I certainly couldn't detect even the faintest trace of love or care for the source material. If dislike for the comic book isn't the thing that they wanted to convey with this film, then they fooled me quite well.
    Sorry, but I have rarely been more disappointed in a movie, and there's no changing that. I don't regret watching it, but I won't be watching it again. I felt like it was the only Batman movie worse than The Killing Joke, and that's pretty damning.

    Maybe whatever about this movie reminds you of the TLH adaptation does so because they both draw from the TLH comic books? And if not, I don't want to know.

  2. #377
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Personally I don't see how, since this movie actually looks good, unlike that...blegh. But please, don't tell me why you think they look similar. Like I said, comparing this movie to that one would just kill some of my enthusiasm, and I don't want that. Like I said, I thought The Long Halloween was an awful adaptation and was just an adaptation in name only. I didn't like it, and discussing it won't suddenly change how I feel about it. The only praise I can give to it was that it was only the second worst movie I saw last year.

    Maybe that's true, but if so then in my opinion they failed, and they did so spectacularly. Watching the final product I certainly couldn't detect even the faintest trace of love or care for the source material. If dislike for the comic book isn't the thing that they wanted to convey with this film, then they fooled me quite well.
    Sorry, but I have rarely been more disappointed in a movie, and there's no changing that. I don't regret watching it, but I won't be watching it again. I felt like it was the only Batman movie worse than The Killing Joke, and that's pretty damning.

    Maybe whatever about this movie reminds you of the TLH adaptation does so because they both draw from the TLH comic books? And if not, I don't want to know.
    Never have two more dramatically different opinions been met .

  3. #378
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Never have two more dramatically different opinions been met .
    Different strokes for different folks. I thought doing a faithful adaptation of The Long Halloween was a no brainer - I guess it really did require at least one brain for them to even consider the possibility. And that's the only adaptation that story will ever have. So I'm **** outta luck. My favorite Batman story will never get a faithful adaptation, so that is one dream dead and buried on boot hill. I can't think of a worse outcome.

  4. #379
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Never have two more dramatically different opinions been met .
    For real, I thought the Long Halloween adaptation was easily the best since Under the Hood.
    Looking for a friendly place to discuss comic books? Try The Classic Comics Forum!

  5. #380
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    For real, I thought the Long Halloween adaptation was easily the best since Under the Hood.
    Don't disparage Under the Red Hood like that man...

  6. #381

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't really need a Batman movie to be like the MCU. Batman: Universe was like a Fever Dream and Bendis doesn't have a very good voice for Bruce in my opinion.

    But like Batman: The Animated Series wasn't necessarily depressingly dark and was still all ages at the end of the day I feel like, even with the aesthetic and mood people expect from Batman, there are a lot of different ways to play him and his universe.

    Although one could make the argument that, if he was really thinking ahead, he probably would have expected to need those skills.
    Has there ever been a depressingly dark Batman movie? At the end of the day they're still PG-13 mainstream blockbusters. They wouldn't make the money they have if they were depressing, they just aren't as light and quippy as the average superhero movie. I never came out of a Batman movie feeling like I needed to be cheered up so the tone has never bothered me. They all have humor and Batman prevails at the end so I never got this argument that his movies are so dark and bleak.

    With the way some people act you'd think his movies were Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List. I know the average fan doesn't want his movies to be like the MCU but the constant complaints about dark and gritty Batman movies makes me wonder why there aren't constant complaints about the light tone of the MCU. Is there something inherently less appealing about darkness? If people are bothered by repetitive tones we'd hear more people hoping the next MCU film is the opposite of the rest but we don't. Everyone seems content about an eternal output of MCU films in the same tone.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    Has there ever been a depressingly dark Batman movie? At the end of the day they're still PG-13 mainstream blockbusters. They wouldn't make the money they have if they were depressing, they just aren't as light and quippy as the average superhero movie. I never came out of a Batman movie feeling like I needed to be cheered up so the tone has never bothered me. They all have humor and Batman prevails at the end so I never got this argument that his movies are so dark and bleak.

    With the way some people act you'd think his movies were Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List. I know the average fan doesn't want his movies to be like the MCU but the constant complaints about dark and gritty Batman movies makes me wonder why there aren't constant complaints about the light tone of the MCU. Is there something inherently less appealing about darkness? If people are bothered by repetitive tones we'd hear more people hoping the next MCU film is the opposite of the rest but we don't. Everyone seems content about an eternal output of MCU films in the same tone.
    I feel like part of it is how they've been marketing the movies and how they've been describing it, like they want it to come off like those films, although how that plays out in execution remains to be seen.

    People do complain about MCU movies having the same tone/humor/quips, although they aren't the majority. Just like the majority seem to eat up this style of Batman movie but I don't think it has to be the only way to convey Batman cinematically.

  8. #383
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I feel like part of it is how they've been marketing the movies and how they've been describing it, like they want it to come off like those films, although how that plays out in execution remains to be seen.

    People do complain about MCU movies having the same tone/humor/quips, although they aren't the majority. Just like the majority seem to eat up this style of Batman movie but I don't think it has to be the only way to convey Batman cinematically.
    It's not the only way to convey Batman cinematically just like light and quippy isn't the only way to convey a Marvel hero cinematically, and yet here we are. Just seems like more people are complaining about dark Batman than there are complaining about light everything else.

  9. #384
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    It's not the only way to convey Batman cinematically just like light and quippy isn't the only way to convey a Marvel hero cinematically, and yet here we are. Just seems like more people are complaining about dark Batman than there are complaining about light everything else.
    It's not like I don't get it, just that I feel like there's come a time for a bit of a different take on Batman since we've gotten so many cinematic takes lately. But that's just me.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Styles View Post


    Seems like the runtime is almost three hours. That actually good enough for both action and detective stuff.

  11. #386
    Wayward Member GSman's Avatar
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    For anyone who cares, they released the main theme, I think it's good. I don't know if anything is likely to surpass the Danny Elfman theme, that song's been associated with Batman for over 30 years and is to Batman what the John Williams theme is to Superman, but for what they seem to be going for here, it works.

  12. #387

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I feel like part of it is how they've been marketing the movies and how they've been describing it, like they want it to come off like those films, although how that plays out in execution remains to be seen.

    People do complain about MCU movies having the same tone/humor/quips, although they aren't the majority. Just like the majority seem to eat up this style of Batman movie but I don't think it has to be the only way to convey Batman cinematically.
    I see the tone they're going for as more grounded and "realistic" than dark per se but you're right we won't know for sure until the movie actually comes out. True there are a lot of complaints about the MCU's quips and humor but that's more from detractors than actual fans imo. And boiling it down to solo heroes I could be wrong but the Superman, Spider-Man and Wonder Woman forums aren't clamoring for dark reimaginings of any of them.

    MOS was hated in large part because of the tone, Superman fans the majority of them anyway found the tone off-putting from the jump even before seeing the film. So out of all the major heroes Batman's the only one whose fans want in a variety of tones everyone else seems ok with "Lighthearted quippy Spider-Man Part 30" but "Dark realistic grounded Batman Part 30" gets eyerolls and "this again" reactions.

    I understand there are fans of lighter Batman stories who are sick of Grim Dark jerkass Batman so I don't begrudge them wanting something more along the lines of a lighter take I just find it interesting how he's the only hero who can't get away with making multiple movies in one tone.
    Last edited by The True Detective; 01-20-2022 at 11:22 PM.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    Has there ever been a depressingly dark Batman movie? At the end of the day they're still PG-13 mainstream blockbusters. They wouldn't make the money they have if they were depressing, they just aren't as light and quippy as the average superhero movie. I never came out of a Batman movie feeling like I needed to be cheered up so the tone has never bothered me. They all have humor and Batman prevails at the end so I never got this argument that his movies are so dark and bleak.

    With the way some people act you'd think his movies were Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List. I know the average fan doesn't want his movies to be like the MCU but the constant complaints about dark and gritty Batman movies makes me wonder why there aren't constant complaints about the light tone of the MCU. Is there something inherently less appealing about darkness? If people are bothered by repetitive tones we'd hear more people hoping the next MCU film is the opposite of the rest but we don't. Everyone seems content about an eternal output of MCU films in the same tone.
    That's a great point actually. Particularly when you consider the Nolanverse, held up as the apex of ''serious superhero cinema'', they are pretty optimistic and upbeat films. Yes, Batman, and Gotham, goes through a rough patch in all of them but eventually ''learn to pick themselves up''. And it's not like these films are totally bereft of humor either.

    Affleck's Batman in BvS is considered a very 'dark' take on the character because of his branding criminals and nearly killing Superman. But his character arc over the course of that film, and heading into Justice League, is essentially a positive one - about a once-noble hero regaining his lost hope and being inspired to become a leader and savior.

    I have no doubt that as bleak as this movie seems based on the promotional material, it will end on a note of optimism.

    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    I see the tone they're going for as more grounded and "realistic" than dark per se but you're right we won't know for sure until the movie actually comes out. True there are a lot of complaints about the MCU's quips and humor but that's more from detractors than actual fans imo. And boiling it down to solo heroes I could be wrong but the Superman, Spider-Man and Wonder Woman forums aren't clamoring for dark reimaginings of any of them.

    MOS was hated in large part because of the tone, Superman fans the majority of them anyway found the tone off-putting from the jump even before seeing the film. So out of all the major heroes Batman's the only one whose fans want in a variety of tones everyone else seems ok with "Lighthearted quippy Spider-Man Part 30" but "Dark realistic grounded Batman Part 30" gets eyerolls and "this again" reactions.

    I understand there are fans of lighter Batman stories who are sick of Grim Dark jerkass Batman so I don't begrudge them wanting something more along the lines of a lighter take I just find it interesting how he's the only hero who can't get away with making multiple movies in one tone.
    You're right, particularly when it comes to Superman, where it seems almost like only Donner-inspired takes on the character will be accepted by most fans. To date, it pains me how little respect, in relative terms, MOS gets for reinventing Superman on the big screen for the 21st century while largely staying true to the character, despite some superficially 'darker' elements.

    Also, all the ''grim dark'' takes on Batman are quiet different from each other. Burton's Batman and Nolan's Batman are quiet different. Reeves' Batman will be very different from Snyder's. They're all very different from BTAS or the Arkham games, or the comics of the last 35 years (which have actually had a fair bit of tonal variation).

    Quote Originally Posted by GSman View Post
    For anyone who cares, they released the main theme, I think it's good. I don't know if anything is likely to surpass the Danny Elfman theme, that song's been associated with Batman for over 30 years and is to Batman what the John Williams theme is to Superman, but for what they seem to be going for here, it works.
    It's pretty good. I'm a bit surprised by how upbeat and triumphant the first two-thirds or so is. The bit from 4:00 onwards is more in line with what we've heard so far.

  14. #389
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Can you do me a favor? Don't bring up that animated movie when responding to me. I get that everyone else loves it and thinks it's so much better than the source material, but I didn't like it and thought it was legitimately the worse so called "adaptation" ever. I don't want to be reminded of it when discussing other movies. I was so thoroughly disappointed by it. My favorite comic book story of all time, and the adaptation felt like an insult, like it was specifically made by and for people who never liked the story to begin with. Which I guess is why it's popular. Just, don't bring it up in posts addressing me please.
    Quote Originally Posted by GSman View Post
    For anyone who cares, they released the main theme, I think it's good. I don't know if anything is likely to surpass the Danny Elfman theme, that song's been associated with Batman for over 30 years and is to Batman what the John Williams theme is to Superman, but for what they seem to be going for here, it works.
    Sounds great. Interesting that they've been using a variation of this for the trailers, usually that's not the case.
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

    "I WILL MIX THE ASHES OF YOUR BONES WITH SALT AND USE THEM TO ENSURE THE EARTH THE TEMPLARS TILLED NEVER BEARS FRUIT AGAIN!"

    "*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."

    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    So out of all the major heroes Batman's the only one whose fans want in a variety of tones everyone else seems ok with "Lighthearted quippy Spider-Man Part 30" but "Dark realistic grounded Batman Part 30" gets eyerolls and "this again" reactions.
    I mean, Batman's the only one who's been successful with a variety of tones. Sure, some can try and write off Adam West Batman by saying "It was only popular for two years", but that ignores the continued years of popularity the show had through syndicated reruns. We can try and write off The Brave and The Bold cartoon by saying it wasn't as popular as BTAS, but then again, no Batman cartoon has been as popular as BTAS, not even the "dark" ones. At the end of the day, TB&TB was successful in it's own right.

    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    I understand there are fans of lighter Batman stories who are sick of Grim Dark jerkass Batman so I don't begrudge them wanting something more along the lines of a lighter take I just find it interesting how he's the only hero who can't get away with making multiple movies in one tone.
    But he has gotten away with it. We haven't seen a light hearted Batflick in 25 years. We're about to get Grimdark Batfilms for most of this decade.

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