The Batman Movie

[The Kid]

Didn't the Joker in TDK kind of defeat Batman? I guess not fully but he tricked him into Rachel dying and then corrupted Dent to become a villain where Batman had to then become the "bad guy" to cover up what happened to Dent.

I'd say Batman lost some but he also won and I'd say it was overall a victory albeit at a cost. Rachel dying and Dent turning were obviously big losses, but both Batman and the people on the boats proved Joker's nihilistic philosophy was bogus nonsense. In addition, even though Bruce took responsibility for Dent's murders and embraced being a 'villain', I view it as an overall victory for him as he stopped Joker's twisting of Dent from shattering Gotham's spirit and he proved that he was willing to accept this burden being a 'Dark Knight'

Still my favorite superhero movie ending. I like Dark Knight Rises a lot but it never really lived up to TDK's amazing ending.

[Vishop]

I'd say Batman lost some but he also won and I'd say it was overall a victory albeit at a cost. Rachel dying and Dent turning were obviously big losses, but both Batman and the people on the boats proved Joker's nihilistic philosophy was bogus nonsense. In addition, even though Bruce took responsibility for Dent's murders and embraced being a 'villain', I view it as an overall victory for him as he stopped Joker's twisting of Dent from shattering Gotham's spirit and he proved that he was willing to accept this burden being a 'Dark Knight'

Still my favorite superhero movie ending. I like Dark Knight Rises a lot but it never really lived up to TDK's amazing ending.

He didn't won. He became known as murderer of Dent and other serial killings which Dent did. People identified this as crossing the line which Batman swore to never cross. Heck he even retired as Batman and went to exile. Alfred inadvertantly implied about Bruce's realisation and shame over her loss for Rachel and Dent.

[Scott Taylor]

Major props are also due to the Riddler being the first major cinematic villain to defeat Batman
I suppose his mental illness prevents him from seeing how he won but in the end I think Batman was firmly outwitted mentally and only stopped the final act because of luck

Riddler didn't view Batman as an adversary so much as a partner. He saw their mission as one and the same. Batman changed his whole M.O., prevented the mass killing and in the end Riddler was the one screaming in anguish over his plan going awry. I'd give the victory to Batman here.

[Vishop]

I love 2/3rd of the film but didn't like the last act for that reason, Batman was too dumb. If it wasn't for the cop noticing the carpet tool it was game over. If it wasn't for the random cop Batman would've lost.

This Batman is an inexperienced version of the character who is still coming to ways. His idealogy of vengeance was his traumatic reaction towards his parents death that filled him with rage to overcome fear. He mentions that he doubts his actions. Which he overcame by the last part of the film. The last part of the film pretty much implied thatR Riddler actually lost because if Batman would go through that path of vengeance he would have eventually crossed the line. Just like Selina was going to do
Also it wasnt luck rather a dumb plan by Riddler to bring out some thugs to defeat Batman.

[The Kid]

He didn't won. He became known as murderer of Dent and other serial killings which Dent did. People identified this as crossing the line which Batman swore to never cross. Heck he even retired as Batman and went to exile. Alfred inadvertently implied about Bruce's realisation and shame over her loss for Rachel and Dent.

That was a burden he was willing to face. He def took a loss by the loss of Rachel but his sacrifice in taking responsibility for what Dent did caused Gotham to be safe for 8 years and give him a retirement until Bane forced him back. TDKR states that Bruce being a misanthrope who never leaves the house is because with the death of Rachel and maintaining Dent as Gotham's hero, there's nothing for him to do. Gotham got cleaned up and the normal life he wanted died with Rachel. In other words, you could say Bruce lost in TDK but Batman won

[Nite-Wing]

I love 2/3rd of the film but didn't like the last act for that reason, Batman was too dumb. If it wasn't for the cop noticing the carpet tool it was game over. If it wasn't for the random cop Batman would've lost.

Its moments like that that make the movie shine though
that whole carpet tool being overlooked by him the whole movie is completely down to Bruce never having to work in his life and having his affluence and privilege still influence his Batman

He thought it was just a weapon because that's how riddler used it until the cop made a comment about what it actually was

[Micael]

TDKR states that Bruce being a misanthrope who never leaves the house is because with the death of Rachel and maintaining Dent as Gotham's hero, there's nothing for him to do. Gotham got cleaned up and the normal life he wanted died with Rachel.

I think he only became recluse after the clean energy project failed 3 years before the events of TDKR. Obviously deep down he's always going to be a hero and I think he was really hoping to help people with that arc reactor but once he realized that his plan to save the world became something that could endanger it that was the final straw and it broke him.

[Scott Taylor]

Its moments like that that make the movie shine though
that whole carpet tool being overlooked by him the whole movie is completely down to Bruce never having to work in his life and having his affluence and privilege still influence his Batman

He thought it was just a weapon because that's how riddler used it until the cop made a comment about what it actually was

Indeed. Admittedly I was a little perturbed that Batman didn't solve every riddle instantly like he usually does but then I realized that what we got was much more realistic and satisfying. Plus he still saved the day by figuring out the master plan just in time, due to the carpet tool.

In most Batman movies, the idea of "detecting" is reduced to Batman knowing everything as if he had a secret decoder built into his head. Seeing him be stumped for most of the film and figuring out little details here and there along the way until he was able to finally put them all together in the end was very Sherlock Holmes in feel.

[Vishop]

That was a burden he was willing to face. He def took a loss by the loss of Rachel but his sacrifice in taking responsibility for what Dent did caused Gotham to be safe for 8 years and give him a retirement until Bane forced him back. TDKR states that Bruce being a misanthrope who never leaves the house is because with the death of Rachel and maintaining Dent as Gotham's hero, there's nothing for him to do. Gotham got cleaned up and the normal life he wanted died with Rachel. In other words, you could say Bruce lost in TDK but Batman won

I don't see it as a retirement. He exiled himself. He didn't moved on. The grief took over him He became almost a old man waiting things to go bad again. So that he can come out on top. This was a implication from Dark Knight Returns that was stated by Nolan about his guilt that consumed him which was parallel towards towards the comic. What Alfred said made a whole lot of sense towards his definitive ending that happened on TDKR when he was a siting on diner next to another table where Bruce and Selina have became a couple

[bat39]

I'd say Batman lost some but he also won and I'd say it was overall a victory albeit at a cost. Rachel dying and Dent turning were obviously big losses, but both Batman and the people on the boats proved Joker's nihilistic philosophy was bogus nonsense. In addition, even though Bruce took responsibility for Dent's murders and embraced being a 'villain', I view it as an overall victory for him as he stopped Joker's twisting of Dent from shattering Gotham's spirit and he proved that he was willing to accept this burden being a 'Dark Knight'

Still my favorite superhero movie ending. I like Dark Knight Rises a lot but it never really lived up to TDK's amazing ending.

I think Nolanverse Batman won because, unlike most comic-book versions or Reeves' version of the character, he had a specific agenda with defined goals. He was never plan to wage a ''neverending war against crime''. His goal was simply to make surgical interventions to break the backbone of the underworld and its corrupt influence on the city and create a space for honest official like Jim Gordon, Rachel Dawes and Harvey Dent to do the real work of fixing the city and creating lasting peace and prosperity. And by TDK, he's already achieved that. The hiccup in his plan was the Joker, who killed Rachel and corrupted Harvey. Batman had to sacrifice his own reputation to save Harvey's, but the plan ultimately worked - the martyred Harvey Dent became the ''White Knight'' that the city could rally around to deal a severe blow to crime and corruption over the next eight years.

Bruce suffered a personal loss from Rachel's death. He couldn't have the life with Rachel that he was convinced he could have once Gotham no longer needed Batman. So he was stuck with no Rachel, and no Batman. He tried to find a new sense of purpose in the clean energy project before even that had to be shelved. That said there's no denying that he won his limited war against crime by the end of TDK. What happened in TDKR was basically a coda where he dealt with the consequences of his defeat of Ra's al Ghul from Begins, and found a second shot at happiness beyond the cape and cowl with Selina.

[exile001]

I love 2/3rd of the film but didn't like the last act for that reason, Batman was too dumb. If it wasn't for the cop noticing the carpet tool it was game over. If it wasn't for the random cop Batman would've lost.

How so? He prevented nothing by figuring it out so the end result would have been unchanged. Had this happened earlier in the film and Batman used this info to defuse the bombs you'd have a point, but this actually changed nothing and really only severed to hype the audience for the big thing about to happen.

Its moments like that that make the movie shine though

that whole carpet tool being overlooked by him the whole movie...

He thought it was just a weapon because that's how riddler used it until the cop made a comment about what it actually was

And it did the same for the audience. Most people watching didn't know what that was other than a heavy metal thing.

This Batman isn't omniscient and didn't know what it was anymore than the rest of us. I loved that.

[TravelerInTheDark]

I'm no movie critic, but I enjoyed the film.

Pattinson especially was great. I'd say it's already my favorite depiction of Bruce, which has historically been one of the weaknesses of past Batman films, in my opinion. This Bruce had so much weight on both ends of his identity, it was great. Farrell as Penguin was also incredible. I love Wright as Gordon, I just wish the role had been written a bit more savvy than he was. I hope we get to see more BatCat with Kravitz's Selina, and that she gets a proper cowl next time around. Riddler felt wildly different from the comics, but Dano turned in a great performance as usual regardless.

I very much enjoyed how, despite its grounded and grungy tone and aesthetics, it still felt very much like a comic book movie to me in some of the best ways, and not just like smart-talking action figures hitting each other.

[Mistah K88]

I saw the movie last week, now that I've had time to process it I can give my thoughts.

I liked it more than The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, however it doesn't quite top Batman Begins.

Penguin is my favorite Batman villain, but I'm kinda so-so here for now. Granted he was much better than Burton's take, but that's a pretty low bar to clear. He seems more thuggish than I'd like Oswald to be, but I understand that he's pretty much under the thumb of Falcone. However, becoming his own man can put him in higher class social circles that would grant him the ability to play both sides from the "reformed crook" angle. I'm not going to lie...I'm a bit disappointed that the only time we saw him hold an umbrella was when it was raining.

Catwoman was pretty good, though I do think that more could be done with her. She had this girlfriend who was pretty much fridged and she was kissing Batman not too long afterward. I do think that once again this is more of a starting point for this character. We see the background of where she comes from but I can see her becoming someone who can blend in with high society, yet hate them. It helps that she doesn't know anything yet about Bruce Wayne so when they inevitably meet in a sequel, there's some mystery involved.

Riddler fit this universe, while I'm more of a fan of the smug arrogant asshole who thinks he's smarter than everyone, the incel serial killer schtick works for him. I found it kind of hilarious how his riddles to Batman weren't necessarily clues to prove his superiority complex, but a secret code to someone who he perceived to be an ally.

As people mentioned, I'm glad that Batman didn't just know everything (i.e. the carpet tool that Riddler used), if anything being able to get information from multiple sources and put them together makes me think of a better detective than either instantly knowing everything or just putting everything in a computer. Another point that seems to be brought up is turning from a revenge driven pessimist, to more hopeful and inspiring. I think this is the best Bruce Wayne since Kilmer (What? I thought the Bruce Wayne in Forever was better than every other movie incarnation), as you see more to him. I look forward to seeing more of him

Also, a small thing to note is that Bruce's penthouse isn't just him and Alfred, it's nice to see that there are actual Wayne employees (even if we just saw one) that help out with some of the day to day domestic stuff.

[Joe Sidetracked]

I actually really liked how the carpet tool was used.

Batman spotted the indent it left at the Mayor's home, and quickly deducted that it was the murder weapon when it was found at the Riddler's lair. That was why he overlooked it as having another meaning - he basically put two and two together and got twenty-two, which isn't incorrect, but isn't the right answer either.

So it was a good way to show Batman as fallible whilst still being a good detective (just not yet the world's greatest).

[HaveAtThee]

It was a great film, and it was refreshing to get a more nuanced, mature atmosphere as opposed to standard light-hearted quippy superhero fare.

It will be fascinating to see where they go with a sequel. Really hope Selina/Catwoman still plays a major role as I really dug the chemistry between Selina & Bruce. I wonder if Reeves would ever have Bruce revealing his identity to her.