The Batman Movie

[DKnerd]

Hmm not sure why I understand people like this movie that much. Its a good movie, but I got bored several times. Even though I like it to be a more detective batman movie, it still strikes me a bit boring. In most areas I find it to be average. Maybe I had my hopes set to high, but 3/4 stars out of 6.

[DarkKnight85]

Correction: It hasn't made as much as the last 2 Nolan films aka the sequels, those always perform better than the first installment. On that front it is far ahead of Batman Begins which made $373m when The Batman is on track for at least $800m. Do you really think the sequels can't make as much as TDK and TDKR?

You've brought up Spider-Man in this very thread despite it having nothing to do with him, would you bring up Captain Marvel making more than the 1st Wonder Woman movie in Wonder Woman's forum? I assume the answer is no so why do it with Batman? You can compare them but not under these circumstances. No Way Home is the 3rd film in it's series and The Batman is the 1st. Like I said earlier sequels almost always do better than the 1st film. In Spider-Man's case his 1st MCU film made $880m, less than TDK and TDKR and not much more than The Batman will make.

No Way Home was unique with the Tobey and Andrew hook and Multiverse shenanigans while The Batman had no other draw other than it was a Batman movie. No past Batman actors or DC movie Multiverse implications, it made it's money soley off the Batman brand name and good reviews.

NWH was more than just a Spider-Man movie the way Civil War was more than just a Captain America movie. Civil War made more than Homecoming, doesn't mean Cap was bigger than Spider-Man just that his movie benefited certain advantages Homecoming didn't have. So the 1st entry into a new standalone Batman series isn't comparable to the celebration of 20 years of live action Spider-Men.

Whether the Insomniac games are bigger than the Arkham games doesn't really matter at this point seeing as the Arkham series is over and the Insomniac games are just getting stsrted.

Keep in mind Batman Begins was a 2005 release, and superhero movies were not the juggernaut financial successes that they are today. The x-men movies were some of the most popular in the early 2000's and even X2 only made around 400 million, with Last stand around 600 million. Batman's brand was severely tarnished at the time and it's a testament to how well received Batman Begins was that there was such a leap in box office draw from Begins to the Dark Knight. Spider-Man movies at the time did better than the X Men movies. They still didn't hit a billion, but they were the closes thing in 2000-2010. I still stand by my point earlier, that I think this movie making 750-800 million is a little underwhelming. And yes I think the sequels to this movie will match the Nolan movies, but that's not that impressive when you consider the whole picture in regards to inflation and comparing the appetite for super hero films from now compared to 2010 or so. I still feel something is wrong because I truly don't think the Batman brand has been diminished over the years. A good run with the Nolan trilogy, and believe it or not but Ben Affleck and Snyder's batman has a decent following. Most people actually really like the depiction outside of over the top killing aspects in some of the scenes.

Again, I like the movie and it is a success. And I think it will continue to be. Just it's not going to be a property that will bring DC bank from the brink of damage from what's happened to them. They have more work to do and it's not going to be easy.

[The True Detective]

Keep in mind Batman Begins was a 2005 release, and superhero movies were not the juggernaut financial successes that they are today. The x-men movies were some of the most popular in the early 2000's and even X2 only made around 400 million, with Last stand around 600 million. Batman's brand was severely tarnished at the time and it's a testament to how well received Batman Begins was that there was such a leap in box office draw from Begins to the Dark Knight. Spider-Man movies at the time did better than the X Men movies. They still didn't hit a billion, but they were the closes thing in 2000-2010. I still stand by my point earlier, that I think this movie making 750-800 million is a little underwhelming. And yes I think the sequels to this movie will match the Nolan movies, but that's not that impressive when you consider the whole picture in regards to inflation and comparing the appetite for super hero films from now compared to 2010 or so. I still feel something is wrong because I truly don't think the Batman brand has been diminished over the years. A good run with the Nolan trilogy, and believe it or not but Ben Affleck and Snyder's batman has a decent following. Most people actually really like the depiction outside of over the top killing aspects in some of the scenes.

Again, I like the movie and it is a success. And I think it will continue to be. Just it's not going to be a property that will bring DC bank from the brink of damage from what's happened to them. They have more work to do and it's not going to be easy.

Gee it's almost like the pandemic and tons of theaters in China (the 2nd biggest movie market in the world) being closed had something to do with the box office. F9 ($726m) and No Time to Die ($774m) missed $1b too and those franchises are arguably bigger at the box office than Batman is. The highest grossing Batman movie ever is TDKR with $1.08b. The highest grossing Fast & Furious is F7 which made $1.5b, it made more overseas $1.1b than ANY Batman movie ever has. The biggest James Bond film ever is Skyfall with $1.1b.

No Time to Die had the extra hook of being the last Daniel Craig Bond movie ever and F9 didn't have 2/3 of Chinese theaters closed AND was apart of an ongoing universe. Despite all of that The Batman will definitely outgross F9 and likely outgross No Time to Die even tho those franchises make more money than Batman on average. Answer me this, was Spider-Man: Homecoming a disappointment since it only made $880m and missed $1b too? That didn't have a pandemic hurting it and had Iron Man in it too vs Batman and no other heroes.

[InfamousBG]

I am surprised more people here are not talking about the deleted scene that came out yesterday. I loved it.

[Alpha]

Joker is the one thing in the movie that made puke. Can't believe they whored themselves out for nothing. The deleted scene was even more annoying

[Lightning Rider]

I am surprised more people here are not talking about the deleted scene that came out yesterday. I loved it.

I like the dynamic, not really feeling the burnt and scabby look for Joker.

[DarkKnight85]

Gee it's almost like the pandemic and tons of theaters in China (the 2nd biggest movie market in the world) being closed had something to do with the box office. F9 ($726m) and No Time to Die ($774m) missed $1b too and those franchises are arguably bigger at the box office than Batman is. The highest grossing Batman movie ever is TDKR with $1.08b. The highest grossing Fast & Furious is F7 which made $1.5b, it made more overseas $1.1b than ANY Batman movie ever has. The biggest James Bond film ever is Skyfall with $1.1b.

No Time to Die had the extra hook of being the last Daniel Craig Bond movie ever and F9 didn't have 2/3 of Chinese theaters closed AND was apart of an ongoing universe. Despite all of that The Batman will definitely outgross F9 and likely outgross No Time to Die even tho those franchises make more money than Batman on average. Answer me this, was Spider-Man: Homecoming a disappointment since it only made $880m and missed $1b too? That didn't have a pandemic hurting it and had Iron Man in it too vs Batman and no other heroes.

Ehh, I don't know about No Time to Die, but Fast and Furious usually has good pull internationally and in China. Using F9 though isn't a good example for a couple of reasons. Movies coming out now, are pretty far away from the pandemic. F9 released when people were only getting their feet wet. That and there was a couple of controversies with the Fast franchise. The actor made that Taiwan comment that was sure to upset chinese opinions, and also the fallout with Dwayne Johnson, along with diminishing returns on the quality of their sequels. Too much wavy water with that film.

Keep in mind as I've said before TDKR with 1.08 Billion is with an asterisk because of the domestic theater shooting opening weekend. Pretty crippling thing that happened right out of the gate, especially since Nolan's Batman movies had such a strong domestic presence along with the Batman IP in general.

As for the Spiderman Homecoming, I think the fact they needed the Marvel branding and presence of Iron man, showed the quality of that movie for what it really was. It overachieved due to those things. Those Holland spiderman movies really aren't good movies, but they follow the Marvel formula and always use gimmicky things to inflate their box office. The new one solidifies that. I did enjoy the most recent one the most though, but still very gimmicky. In summary I guess I just have feel the Batman IP is so strong and this box office doesn't reflect how strong it is. China would have only had a little effect on Batman, they don't love that IP over there. This movie should have made 1 billion without them. What they did is good, but not great.

[DarkKnight85]

As for the Joker deleted scene. I think the scene was very interesting. I have to think more on whether the movie would have been enhanced by it's incorporation or not. I'm also kind of surprised that they seem so committed to the casting so early. It feels like this is their guy. As for the depiction, I agree with Lightning Rider, I'm not too keen on the look. But I'm sure it's going to be overhauled/touched up if they go forward with the character in the sequels. Even Nolan tried to initially experiment with the look of the character, but learned that his clownish presentation and characterizations are just part of who he is. So I assume they will find some middle ground between giving him a iconic look, but does their own thing at the same time.

I do see a similar patter here. Matt Reeves just didn't want star power for this new franchise at all. I know this guy was in Dunkirk, but I actually think the lack of star power is something that has to do with this film's box office draw. Not saying to just cast people who are famous, but I think a film might need a balance between bankable actors and underdogs. Their commitment is admirable though. I do also like how it pays tribute to Silence of the Lambs/Hannibal Lector, but I also am starting to think Reeves is playing with fire. Some other people on other forums made the comment that the movie is just a mish mash inspiration of much other better films (Seven, Zodiac, Silence of the Lambs) and that it doesn't have it's own voice. I like the inspirations, but there might be some truth here. But then again as someone else said, every film is sometimes inspired by other stories/films and there is truth there as well.

It will be very interesting to see where the franchise goes. I am happy for it though. Ultimately, I want Batman to succeed. Still mad about how DC treated their cinematic universe though and what they did to Snyder. They were pretty unprofessional in that regard.

[Lightning Rider]

As for the Joker deleted scene. I think the scene was very interesting. I have to think more on whether the movie would have been enhanced by it's incorporation or not. I'm also kind of surprised that they seem so committed to the casting so early. It feels like this is their guy. As for the depiction, I agree with Lightning Rider, I'm not too keen on the look. But I'm sure it's going to be overhauled/touched up if they go forward with the character in the sequels. Even Nolan tried to initially experiment with the look of the character, but learned that his clownish presentation and characterizations are just part of who he is. So I assume they will find some middle ground between giving him a iconic look, but does their own thing at the same time.

I do see a similar patter here. Matt Reeves just didn't want star power for this new franchise at all. I know this guy was in Dunkirk, but I actually think the lack of star power is something that has to do with this film's box office draw. Not saying to just cast people who are famous, but I think a film might need a balance between bankable actors and underdogs. Their commitment is admirable though. I do also like how it pays tribute to Silence of the Lambs/Hannibal Lector, but I also am starting to think Reeves is playing with fire. Some other people on other forums made the comment that the movie is just a mish mash inspiration of much other better films (Seven, Zodiac, Silence of the Lambs) and that it doesn't have it's own voice. I like the inspirations, but there might be some truth here. But then again as someone else said, every film is sometimes inspired by other stories/films and there is truth there as well.

It will be very interesting to see where the franchise goes. I am happy for it though. Ultimately, I want Batman to succeed. Still mad about how DC treated their cinematic universe though and what they did to Snyder. They were pretty unprofessional in that regard.

I think I might be feeling that as well, actually. Which may be unfair given the genre has certain built-in tropes, but something in the scene made me feel the exchange was a little bit untrue to the characters. Is Bruce really that desperate to consult Joker? "I want your perspective"...ok. And while Joker ultimately mocks Batman and gets under his skin the way we know he can, the way he reads the clues makes him feel too, I don't know, human? If that's the right word. I find it difficult to put my finger on it, but it may just be that it makes me feel like I'm watching a scabby Hannibal Lecter.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I kind of resent Reeves' aesthetic and conceptual choices. Batman's villains are more interesting than, or at least more distinguishable from, regular psychos because they lean so hard into their concepts. The Riddler doesn't just leave clues, he's a hyper-intelligent egomaniac obsessed with riddles. The Joker isn't just a terrorist, he's a clown hellbent on chaos. But the two villains we've seen so far are just kind of generic evil-gloating serial killers with some vaguely comic book inspired touches. Is Freeze just going to be a bald guy who stuffs corporate baddies into fridges or makes them drink liquid nitrogen? Is Ivy just going to be a lab scientist who can make deadly poisons? Clayface is just a dude with lots of masks? **** that.

(I know I sound like a hater but I liked the movie, lol.)

[batnbreakfast]

Need to watch the movie a second time in theatres. Best looking on Screen Batman and Solid World building. The Joker seems to be one of two thugs that got a severe beating and He also looks it. Have Not watched the deleted scene. You can use this Version of Gotham and its citizens even without the Bat. Looking forward to the Shows but already disappointed they scratched Gotham Central and replaced it with Arkham

[The True Detective]

Ehh, I don't know about No Time to Die, but Fast and Furious usually has good pull internationally and in China. Using F9 though isn't a good example for a couple of reasons. Movies coming out now, are pretty far away from the pandemic. F9 released when people were only getting their feet wet. That and there was a couple of controversies with the Fast franchise. The actor made that Taiwan comment that was sure to upset chinese opinions, and also the fallout with Dwayne Johnson, along with diminishing returns on the quality of their sequels. Too much wavy water with that film.

Keep in mind as I've said before TDKR with 1.08 Billion is with an asterisk because of the domestic theater shooting opening weekend. Pretty crippling thing that happened right out of the gate, especially since Nolan's Batman movies had such a strong domestic presence along with the Batman IP in general.

As for the Spiderman Homecoming, I think the fact they needed the Marvel branding and presence of Iron man, showed the quality of that movie for what it really was. It overachieved due to those things. Those Holland spiderman movies really aren't good movies, but they follow the Marvel formula and always use gimmicky things to inflate their box office. The new one solidifies that. I did enjoy the most recent one the most though, but still very gimmicky. In summary I guess I just have feel the Batman IP is so strong and this box office doesn't reflect how strong it is. China would have only had a little effect on Batman, they don't love that IP over there. This movie should have made 1 billion without them. What they did is good, but not great.

No Time to Die came out in November you can't dismiss it with "eh I don't know about that" because it hurts your argument. The pandemic may not be hurting every country but it is in Asian countries, The Batman surprisingly was well received in China. If COVID wasn't shutting so many movie theaters there down Batman could've easily done over $100m there, South Korea is also getting hit by COVID and of course as I mentioned before this wasn't released in Russia. 3 big to decent sized markets either massively hurt or cutoff, that's gonna hurt the box office.

Spider-Man's brand wasn't hurt when Homecoming didn't make $1b and neither is Batman's, if Batman Begins can make $373m and the very next film explodes to $1b, The Batman making $750m-800m can have a similar boost. Except It's much higher gross means It's sequel can go as high as $1.3-1.5b if everything goes right.

[Alpha]

Being well reviewed by the audience just means that the people who saw it really liked it. It doesn't mean that there were many people interested in seing it.

And the predictions for China were low even before they closed down lots if theaters.

[The True Detective]

Being well reviewed by the audience just means that the people who saw it really liked it. It doesn't mean that there were many people interested in seing it.

And the predictions for China were low even before they closed down lots if theaters.

That's some interesting logic, people who saw the movie liked it but that doesn't matter because there are hypothetically many who weren't interested in seeing it.

I'm not sure I'm understanding that one. Even if not a lot of people saw it the few who did liked it, for comparison the Uncharted movie opened lower than The Batman in China and has a 6.1 Maoyan score even though it's the kind of lighthearted big spectacle movie everyone says China loves. Being seen by a small amount of people didn't help Uncharted, The Batman is well received there, the word of mouth should hopefully spread to those who haven't seen it and help the sequel breakout there.

You got a link to predictions being low even before all those theaters shut down? I'm regularly on box office forums and don't recall there being projections before the shutdowns. All I remember is fans speculating it would open low because it's not the kind of movie China typically goes crazy over.

[DarkKnight85]

I think I might be feeling that as well, actually. Which may be unfair given the genre has certain built-in tropes, but something in the scene made me feel the exchange was a little bit untrue to the characters. Is Bruce really that desperate to consult Joker? "I want your perspective"...ok. And while Joker ultimately mocks Batman and gets under his skin the way we know he can, the way he reads the clues makes him feel too, I don't know, human? If that's the right word. I find it difficult to put my finger on it, but it may just be that it makes me feel like I'm watching a scabby Hannibal Lecter.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I kind of resent Reeves' aesthetic and conceptual choices. Batman's villains are more interesting than, or at least more distinguishable from, regular psychos because they lean so hard into their concepts. The Riddler doesn't just leave clues, he's a hyper-intelligent egomaniac obsessed with riddles. The Joker isn't just a terrorist, he's a clown hellbent on chaos. But the two villains we've seen so far are just kind of generic evil-gloating serial killers with some vaguely comic book inspired touches. Is Freeze just going to be a bald guy who stuffs corporate baddies into fridges or makes them drink liquid nitrogen? Is Ivy just going to be a lab scientist who can make deadly poisons? Clayface is just a dude with lots of masks? **** that.

(I know I sound like a hater but I liked the movie, lol.)

I think you just stated something that actually has a lot of significance and is a very valid reason why the scene actually might not work in regards to characterizations being faithful. This scene could very well exist in a batman film, but having it delivered here is kind of almost forced, and not earned, is what I'm getting from you. And I think that is a very accurate and fair statement to make. Batman should only be going to the Joker if he was desperate and if there was a huge build up of a problem he couldn't solve. It doesn't really make sense for him to be this desperate and if anything, we have to assume this proto-joker hasn't really done all the crazy thins that he's capable of yet. I'm sure he did some crimes obviously, but he's not the infamous legend he soon will be. I think for comparison, this scene obviously has a little bit of Alan Moore's Killing Joke inspiration when Batman visits the Joker in the beginning, but it also draws inspirations and warrants comparison to how Batman reached out to Joker for assistance in the beginning of Batman RIP, with finding out more information about Dr. Hurt. And the difference between that comic encounter and this movie is that there was huge buildup to Dr. Hurt by Grant Morrison. Dr. Hurt was being groomed by Morrison as being the ultimate Batman foe, working from the shadows throughout Batman's whole existence. With a foe so hyped up, it made sense to reach out to a rival who was on the same playing field. Here in the context of this movie, Riddler killed how many people at this point? 1 or 2? Maybe 3? And so that's the part where it starts to feel forced a little bit, where they just want to incorporate the Hannibal lector/ Silence of the Lambs inspiration in the film and that unfortunately it doesn't resonate well with some people.

For what it's worth, I think Matt Reeves directed the hell out of the scene though. And I do think it does enhance the final scene between Riddler and Joker. The scene ultimately just doesn't work within the timeline of this universe.

[DarkKnight85]

No Time to Die came out in November you can't dismiss it with "eh I don't know about that" because it hurts your argument. The pandemic may not be hurting every country but it is in Asian countries, The Batman surprisingly was well received in China. If COVID wasn't shutting so many movie theaters there down Batman could've easily done over $100m there, South Korea is also getting hit by COVID and of course as I mentioned before this wasn't released in Russia. 3 big to decent sized markets either massively hurt or cutoff, that's gonna hurt the box office.

Spider-Man's brand wasn't hurt when Homecoming didn't make $1b and neither is Batman's, if Batman Begins can make $373m and the very next film explodes to $1b, The Batman making $750m-800m can have a similar boost. Except It's much higher gross means It's sequel can go as high as $1.3-1.5b if everything goes right.

I didn't bring up No Time to Die, because I literally didn't have enough knowledge about the situation. I didn't follow it's box office when it released. So anything you're telling me here is informative.

I do think you're putting too much faith into China though. You can't really count on the Chinese market anymore for consistent and stable box office earnings. The Chinese government is being far more selective when it comes to US movies being released in that country. That and they are also trying to promote their own domestic films and are kind of trying to distance themselves from US films. What's interesting is I don't even think TDK was released in China, and the TDKR only shows about 50 million from China. With Batman v Superman at about 100 million. I think this makes the TDK saga box office even more impressive that they basically did that well without them and if anything, had the same handicap that the Batman now has that you are referring to.