The Batman Movie

[Nite-Wing]

The movies message is pretty bleak for a Superhero film. Honestly I'm surprised people arent ripping it apart like they did with Man of Steel because its essentially the same ending with the same amount of collateral damage but with Bruce saying he wants to mix in some hope with his vengeance

I loved the detective aspects of the film
I honestly didn't think it was possible to make one of the more boring aspects of Batmans character so compelling

[TheBatman]

This is feeling more and more like you just not caring for teen heroes...which isn't a very compelling argument against them appearing.

Yeah. And MCU Spider-Man was very much Iron Man's sidekick. They were basically a marvel version of Bruce and Tim.

[Frontier]

Having seen the film myself, I must weigh in here. The movie is dark, but it presents Batman unambiguously as a hero, albeit one with some issues to work through. The film seems to say that maybe Batman's mission is hopeless, but that he will always maintain hope that Gotham can be saved because it is simply who he is. I think it has a very optimistic and hopeful message at its core.

In many ways, this is the anti-Snyder. This is a very humanistic film, and one with more regard for human life than the Snyder films. When people die here, it means something.

I think you'll agree with it Frontier.

Glad to hear it .

[Somecrazyaussie]

Having seen the film myself, I must weigh in here. The movie is dark, but it presents Batman unambiguously as a hero, albeit one with some issues to work through. The film seems to say that maybe Batman's mission is hopeless, but that he will always maintain hope that Gotham can be saved because it is simply who he is. I think it has a very optimistic and hopeful message at its core.

In many ways, this is the anti-Snyder. This is a very humanistic film, and one with more regard for human life than the Snyder films. When people die here, it means something.

I think you'll agree with it Frontier.

I agree with this.

I loved how heavily it leaned into the Detective aspects. This film is what you'd get if Fincher directed Batman. Which isn't lost on me because this is like a superhero version of Se7en or Zodiac.

Plus they actually show how corrupt Gotham is. Every other adaption likes to tell us it is, but never show. Every facet of the city is touched by greed, apathy and corruption. Heck, even Bruce questions whether or not he can save it. Yet he feels he has to at least try to do so.

It's 's Batman who starts the film angry with a mission of vengeance, yet by the end he realises he can help Gotham by being a symbol of strength and hope.

Plus I loved the narration and journal entries. Straight up Punisher War Journal vibes.

[bat39]

I kind of hope not. Would probably clash with what he's going for. If it takes a genius (which I doubt) to crack it, better to look for one who's interested in a much lighter take. Like a film that looks like The Batman does should never inspire a Batman and Robin. James Gunn would be a bitter pick to try it - even his "dark" stuff is tonally light, it's just violent.



It does show up in adaptations - it showed up in The Lego Batman movie on the big screen. And it worked perfectly there. Some things work better in animation - and saying it doesn't count if it's animated is kind of dismissive.

I haven't watched the film yet, but some reviews have said that in a way it's the closest a Batman film has come to watching a comic-book unfold on the screen. So I guess while it is still a 'grounded' and 'realistic', stylistically this might be a world that allows for something as comic-booky as Robin to exist.

Reeves hasn't really gone out of his way to rule out Robin, unlike Nolan, who was pretty adamant that he didn't want Robin in his films IIRC (though even he represented the idea of Robin in his 'verse through John Blake).

I think Titans (which I've only watched a few episodes of) shows how you can do Robin in a 'grounded' way.

And Robin doesn't have to be a 12 year old on-screen! He can be a 17-18 year old (with an actor in his early 20's...so basically the same age range as Tom Holland). Say what you will about the Schumacher films, I think Chris O'Donnell made for a decent Robin, and the age-gap and relationship between him and Kilmer/Clooney's Bruce in those films made perfect sense to me.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I haven't watched the film yet, but some reviews have said that in a way it's the closest a Batman film has come to watching a comic-book unfold on the screen. So I guess while it is still a 'grounded' and 'realistic', stylistically this might be a world that allows for something as comic-booky as Robin to exist.

Reeves hasn't really gone out of his way to rule out Robin, unlike Nolan, who was pretty adamant that he didn't want Robin in his films IIRC (though even he represented the idea of Robin in his 'verse through John Blake).

I think Titans (which I've only watched a few episodes of) shows how you can do Robin in a 'grounded' way.

And Robin doesn't have to be a 12 year old on-screen! He can be a 17-18 year old (with an actor in his early 20's...so basically the same age range as Tom Holland). Say what you will about the Schumacher films, I think Chris O'Donnell made for a decent Robin, and the age-gap and relationship between him and Kilmer/Clooney's Bruce in those films made perfect sense to me.

Some have compared it with BTAS in that it's grounded, but it still has the styling of a comic book world so to speak.

As for this version of Batman taking on a Robin? spoilers:

Bruce feels a connection with the son of the mayor who Riddler kills. The child found his dad and you see the kid get consoled at the crime scene. When it's mentioned to him, Batman stops and looks at the kid and you see a sadness in his eyes. Later on, Bruce saves the kid at the funeral. The kid is also the first one to take Batmans hand when he saves people after the stadium floods. So if confronted with someone like Dick in the future, you can bet he would definitely take him in and under his wing

end of spoilers

[Vakanai]

I find you don't have to say the same thing over and over again if the point is valid, or if one is willing to say that, "yeah, although that's not my thing I'm sure it's cool with a lot of other people."

I believe my point was valid - you believe your point is valid. But we kept saying the same things, over and over. As if we think we can change the other's opinions. We can't. Sometimes we just have to accept that people disagree and we won't "prove them wrong" no matter how many words we throw at them. And honestly, I never want to debate or argue that much. I'm at the stage where I just want to share my opinions, maybe defend them for 3/5 posts max, and that's it. I get if people strongly disagree because they just really really want the thing, but "winning" some argument with me won't make such a "dream movie" materialize. It just bugs me to get dragged into a long drawn out debate for no reason. Maybe other people get something out of it, but I sure as heck don't anymore. I just get tired. I start dreading a poster's comments because it starts feeling like work just to keep responding, but no one's paying me to put time and energy into something emotionally and mentally draining. So yeah "not my thing" and I disagree but "cool if other people want it" although honestly I hope they never get it because to me that's just one Batman movie that'll imo never be as good as it could've been.

Edit: I do apologize for how gruffly I ended it though. I've been tired lately, and that makes me a bit too grumpy to care how I sound or put things. Should've just said "Agree to disagree" instead.

[Vakanai]

Pretty much this. There really isn't a valid anti-Robin argument to make anymore for general adaptations. It's all down to personal preference and different artistic visions now.

Disagree. I still feel all my arguments, that it's better served in animation than live action, that you'd have to age up Robin to an adult who is never some adopted son of Bruce's because they're so close to the same age, which really defeats the whole "iconic" status you want to see, that you'd have to lighten the whole film up at the very least to MCU tone and homogenize the superhero genre even further, as all being valid. You can disagree with those being valid or not, but I'm not really going to debate it further, just pointing out that I still disagree and still feel my points are valid.

[Marko Lane]

I'm really excited to watch this movie! Can't wait to see Roberts take on Bruce/Batman

[Vakanai]

I haven't watched the film yet, but some reviews have said that in a way it's the closest a Batman film has come to watching a comic-book unfold on the screen. So I guess while it is still a 'grounded' and 'realistic', stylistically this might be a world that allows for something as comic-booky as Robin to exist.

Reeves hasn't really gone out of his way to rule out Robin, unlike Nolan, who was pretty adamant that he didn't want Robin in his films IIRC (though even he represented the idea of Robin in his 'verse through John Blake).

I think Titans (which I've only watched a few episodes of) shows how you can do Robin in a 'grounded' way.

And Robin doesn't have to be a 12 year old on-screen! He can be a 17-18 year old (with an actor in his early 20's...so basically the same age range as Tom Holland). Say what you will about the Schumacher films, I think Chris O'Donnell made for a decent Robin, and the age-gap and relationship between him and Kilmer/Clooney's Bruce in those films made perfect sense to me.

Titans isn't "grounded" it's just "edgelord", or at least the first season was. Hate this notion that grim and gritty is the same thing as grounded, it isn't. And a 18 yo adult joining Batman's cause is frankly Robin in name only - which I've already said I'm fine with. An adult "Robin" works far better than the actual idea of a kid/teen sidekick, but don't pretend like it's the same idea as the regular Robin. Agreed O'Donnell was fine in his movies, although the whole Bruce needing to take in an orphaned adult was weird and stupid. Like, that Robin was clearly old enough to drink smoke and get sent off to war without checking his ID old, but we're to believe he needs to go into some kind of foster system? Just weird.

[Alpha]

Some have compared it with BTAS in that it's grounded, but it still has the styling of a comic book world so to speak.

As for this version of Batman taking on a Robin? spoilers:

Bruce feels a connection with the son of the mayor who Riddler kills. The child found his dad and you see the kid get consoled at the crime scene. When it's mentioned to him, Batman stops and looks at the kid and you see a sadness in his eyes. Later on, Bruce saves the kid at the funeral. The kid is also the first one to take Batmans hand when he saves people after the stadium floods. So if confronted with someone like Dick in the future, you can bet he would definitely take him in and under his wing

end of spoilers

I can see Bruce Wayne adopting a kid. But if he's responsible for this young man, how could he ever be moral while letting him run around town attack guys with guns?

Either he's a good father figure and makes sure he doesn't put himself in a situation where he is likely to die

or he let's him be Robin and the movie acknowledges the fact that Dick Grayson shouldn't be under his care.

And per the people saying Robin's suit would be bulletproof, did you forget that people can shoot him in the head?

This is why We Are Robin was the best solution. A bunch of teenagers form a gang to protect their neighborhood, and they get caught in the middle of a gang war and Batman is protecting them, not mentoring them.

These are the only solutions in a serious and moral Batman movie
1 Bruce Wayne adopts Dick Grayson but he never becomes Robin
2 The Robins are a gang of young vigilantes protecting their neighborhood from supervillains, and Batman is trying to protect them, not training them and encouraging them

[Alpha]

Titans isn't "grounded" it's just "edgelord", or at least the first season was. Hate this notion that grim and gritty is the same thing as grounded, it isn't. And a 18 yo adult joining Batman's cause is frankly Robin in name only - which I've already said I'm fine with. An adult "Robin" works far better than the actual idea of a kid/teen sidekick, but don't pretend like it's the same idea as the regular Robin. Agreed O'Donnell was fine in his movies, although the whole Bruce needing to take in an orphaned adult was weird and stupid. Like, that Robin was clearly old enough to drink smoke and get sent off to war without checking his ID old, but we're to believe he needs to go into some kind of foster system? Just weird.

Not to mention the fact that Titans shows how horrible Bruce is as a caretaker when he encouraged and allowed Dick to become Robin, along with the subsequent replacements

[SiegePerilous02]

Having seen the film myself, I must weigh in here. The movie is dark, but it presents Batman unambiguously as a hero, albeit one with some issues to work through. The film seems to say that maybe Batman's mission is hopeless, but that he will always maintain hope that Gotham can be saved because it is simply who he is. I think it has a very optimistic and hopeful message at its core.

In many ways, this is the anti-Snyder. This is a very humanistic film, and one with more regard for human life than the Snyder films. When people die here, it means something.

I think you'll agree with it Frontier.

This is very good to hear.

Disagree. I still feel all my arguments, that it's better served in animation than live action, that you'd have to age up Robin to an adult who is never some adopted son of Bruce's because they're so close to the same age, which really defeats the whole "iconic" status you want to see, that you'd have to lighten the whole film up at the very least to MCU tone and homogenize the superhero genre even further, as all being valid. You can disagree with those being valid or not, but I'm not really going to debate it further, just pointing out that I still disagree and still feel my points are valid.

Nobody is advocating for that. Bruce has always been a decade or so older than Dick, 15 years tops. He's a mix of older brother and father-figure. All of us have been fine with Dick being 15-16 when he meets Bruce, which is NOT an adult. That is basically the same iconic status a lot of us want to see. And none of us who have said Robin can be 18-21 in a movie stated that he'd start out that way. He didn't in BTAS.

Fair on the rest of it.

[Vakanai]

Nobody is advocating for that. Bruce has always been a decade or so older than Dick, 15 years tops. He's a mix of older brother and father-figure. All of us have been fine with Dick being 15-16 when he meets Bruce, which is NOT an adult. That is basically the same iconic status a lot of us want to see. And none of us who have said Robin can be 18-21 in a movie stated that he'd start out that way. He didn't in BTAS.

Fair on the rest of it.

I really don't see them allowing a 15/16 yo Robin out fighting crime in live action. Even if you're fine with it, I don't see them doing it (sure, Hitgirl was a thing, but Kick-Ass was an R Rated comedy). But what they would or wouldn't do is a different question entirely and none of us are WB executives.

Anyways, changing topics, I'm excited to see this movie finally. Don't know when, but hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Probably either Monday or the Monday after.

[Primal Slayer]

The movies message is pretty bleak for a Superhero film. Honestly I'm surprised people arent ripping it apart like they did with Man of Steel because its essentially the same ending with the same amount of collateral damage but with Bruce saying he wants to mix in some hope with his vengeance

I loved the detective aspects of the film
I honestly didn't think it was possible to make one of the more boring aspects of Batmans character so compelling

Superman and Batman are 2 different tones in charecters....Superman shouldn't be moody.

it's probably my favorite Bat film thus far. It felt like watching a game come to life and seeing it in 4DX definitely helped with the feeling.

While i prefer playboy Bruce, Patterson of course suited emo Bruce but was great as Batman. I enjoyed that he wasn't perfect as Batman, was bested though the film. The terror in his eyes during a particular Riddler scene was one of my faves

It was refreshing to get Selina right off the bat and have her throughout the film. Given the ending, i wont accept a sequel without her. I did think she needed a bit more as Catwoman. She got saved by Bats plenty and her saving him just resulted in him saving her from saving him. So i wanted her to get a big save and be a little more effective in their first encounter.

Even though the film was long, it didn't feel 3hrs long. It was moody but had life to it. I feel like this is what Snyder wanted BvS to be in a sense.

9/10. Of all the superhero films to come out I'd say this one definitely deserves a lot of awards.