The Batman Movie

[Scott Taylor]

By the way, the audience rating for The Batman in China dropped more than expected when more people saw it, which is what I expected. They just aren't the type of audience interested in this movie (their loss since the movie was actually better than it seemed).

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...id-1235112446/

"the latest tracking suggests an opening of just $15 million to $20 million, down from earlier projections in the $25 million to $30 million range."
For comparison, Far From Home and Aquaman opened to 95 Million in China and Spider-man Homecoming opened to 70 Million

No shock since the movie basically undermines authority, and China is all about authority being correct.

[bat39]

Well in that regard, I guess it's definitely mission accomplished for Matt Reeves! Because that definitely looks like what he did. Kind of win for both the studio and himself I guess. Both got what they wanted.

Yeah. I suppose he may well follow the same trajectory as Christopher Nolan, who made his name with the Dark Knight trilogy and then basically became the kind of filmmaker who WB would be willing to throw millions at to direct just about anything.

[Yohei72]

No shock since the movie basically undermines authority, and China is all about authority being correct.

That's awfully reductionist, to say the least.

[Yohei72]

Well, finally saw it last night. It was okay. As I've said before, I'm more than a bit weary of dark 'n' gritty Batman in the movies, but my expectations were actually raised by the amount of acclaim, and I was moderately excited going in. Sorry to say my initial expectations from the first teaser trailers were actually confirmed. Technically impressive, expert atmosphere and sense of place, good performances, but monotonously glum and humorless, sometimes to the edge of self-parody. It makes Nolan's trilogy look like The Lego Batman Movie by comparison.

I appreciated some of the things Reeves and company were doing or trying to do, especially critically interrogating Bruce's ideas about his mission and how his and his family's privileged position relates to the city's problems. But why do so many people think you can't have a pulp movie that engages with serious and even grim themes, while still having laughs, fun, a sense of wonder? (See Black Panther for an excellent example in the superhero blockbuster mode.) The Batman is exciting in parts, but almost never fun. I will say Batman's combat choreography is more convincing and dynamic than I've seen before in any live-action portrayal, given the limitations of an actor in a heavy, skintight suit of rubber and plastic.

Pattinson is quite good in the cowl, doing fine acting with his eyes, but his twitchy emo Bruce Wayne is a bore (not all his fault, obviously - the director and writers are equally responsible).

The Riddler is boring - standard-issue serial killer mouth-breather with little relation to the witty and colorful character from the comics. Paul Dano's performance is technically fine but uninteresting, in the standard gibbering, grandstanding psycho mode.

Zoe Kravitz's Catwoman really perks up the movie - her verve, irreverence, and sex appeal give it badly needed spark. It's just a relief to see a character who moves quickly in a film where almost everyone was apparently directed to trudge around as if they had cement in their shoes (or their shoes and socks were just soaked from all the rain). Although I admit to being biased by the fact I could watch Kravitz just walking around, making tea, petting cats, whatever, for three hours on a big screen.

Lots of other fine performances: John Turturro, more menacing that I've seen him since Do the Right Thing; the never-less-than-great Peter Sarsgaard (one of the few cast members who bothers to be a little funny); Jeffrey Wright (duh); and of course Colin Farrell, although it's obvious stunt casting - they could have found a less famous actor with the right look to give at least as good a portrayal, without hours of makeup. Andy Serkis's Alfred is fine, I guess, but why do the movies never try to make that character as delightful as he is in the comics?

The widely mocked "I'm vengeance" line plays as embarrassingly heavy-handed in context as it did in the first clips, and that isn't helped by other characters constantly referring back to it.

My favorite scene, easily, was spoilers:

when Batsy glides from the top of a skyscraper to flee the coppers, zipping up his wings into a skydiving suit, using a parachute (that screws up and almost kills him), etc. It's very clever with its ideas about how to make far-out comic book stuff (the gliding cape-wings) look real-world plausible, and it was fun.

end of spoilers At that moment, I became consciously aware of how much a sense of wonder was missing from most of the film, and that's what you should never miss in a superhero movie, no matter what approach you take.

[Scott Taylor]

That's awfully reductionist, to say the least.

More like concise. I don't need to write a treatise to make a simple point about a complex issue.

[Yohei72]

More like concise. I don't need to write a treatise to make a simple point about a complex issue.

It's not the length of the comment that's the issue, it's the extraordinarily broad brush you use to paint 1 billion+ people.

[Kotre]

I just saw it today as well. I enjoyed it. Good cinematography and use of lighting to make it stand out compared to something like a Marvel style film. I'm dumb as **** so I'm not going to comment on it beyond that.

What I adored though was the fact that the director and writer clearly understood that any kind of grim/realistic/edgy Batman/Bruce Wayne is a fucking loser with a loser ideology. Two years of randomly punching people in the face and trying to influence and control people's actions by fear is abusive and ineffective. That's why it didn't work and all he did was get a light put on top of a building and Riddler thinking that he wants to destroy the city. Trying to be 'vengeance' incarnate is what a fucking edgy teenager does because Bruce never really processed his grief or realised that his parents were flawed until deep into the film. At that point he realised that to effect change he needs to make a positive difference in the light and tries to be a figure of hope rather than fear.

I like Batman. I like the Bat family. I cannot abide the kind of Batman that I can't see sitting next to a dying girl to give her comfort in her final moments. Or that I can't see taking someone under their wing so they turn out better than he did. Batman that isn't trying to effect positive change is a useless failure at best or an abusive twat at worst.

[Bad Witch]

It's not the length of the comment that's the issue, it's the extraordinarily broad brush you use to paint 1 billion+ people.

Yeah, no he was right. After reading your long winded whine fest about an absolutely stunning achievement I'm fairly certain anything you say about most things will be wrong.

[Alpha]

Lot wtf. People here are too salty

[Yohei72]

Yeah, no he was right. After reading your long winded whine fest about an absolutely stunning achievement I'm fairly certain anything you say about most things will be wrong.

Fascinating.

[lefthanded]

Well, finally saw it last night. It was okay. As I've said before, I'm more than a bit weary of dark 'n' gritty Batman in the movies, but my expectations were actually raised by the amount of acclaim, and I was moderately excited going in. Sorry to say my initial expectations from the first teaser trailers were actually confirmed. Technically impressive, expert atmosphere and sense of place, good performances, but monotonously glum and humorless, sometimes to the edge of self-parody. It makes Nolan's trilogy look like The Lego Batman Movie by comparison.

Like you said, an exceedingly competent film, with a great cast. Looks amazing (shot by the same cinematographer who just won an Oscar for Dune, so yeah, it's gonna look good). The sound design really gives it a sense of place (eerie music, the roar of the batmobile, etc.).

But, these are all technical decisions really.

On the non-technical side of movies, it rehashes many things we've seen before in the Batman movies in a way that shows a lack of freshness. Not just Batman movies, but it rehashes many things from other movies. When Quentin Tarantino movies are influenced by/lifts things from other movies, he does it in a way that serves his movie. Here, the references distract me from the movie itself, as I am just thinking of how this movie is cosplaying as other movies.

The director has the 'courage' to not show us the Waynes getting shot, but then feels the need to shoehorn a spoilers:

Joker

end of spoilers tease, as if that is (a) relevant to this Batman story, (b) something needed to get us excited for another movie when really people will see a good Batman movie no matter what, or (c) some original direction of something that has been seen so many times before. I read that there was an even bigger deleted scene, which I think was the right choice to remove. Had they included it, it would have taken away from an already oddly paced movie, and taken the wind out of the Riddler's role in this movie. But the fact that it was even filmed at all, shows the lack of creativity here.

To add on to the thought that the movie was oddly paced - I need to talk about the Penguin. I couldn't tell it was Colin Farrell under there (looked like Robert DeNiro's brother or something), but it was an amazing performance. Even scene he is in was entertaining.
Having said that..... cutting all Penguin related out of the movie would make this movie leaner, and better paced.

Putting aside the cynical main purpose is to get you interested to watch the HBO spinoff show, his main purpose in the movie is to (1) allow for an introduction to Selena, (2) allow for a Batmobile chase, and (3) to be a red herring to show the fallibility of Batman's detective skills.

We already know this is Year 2 Batman and that he misses some of the Riddler's clues, so we don't need reason (3) specifically from the Penguin.

The Batmobile chase (2), while undeniably cool sound design, feels very out of place in this movie. From the odd transitions (Batman's on the ground, there are gunshots and several minutes pass, and suddenly Batman magically is half a block away in his Batmobile), to the way the mechanics of how the chase fits in the story (Batman essentially abandons two allies to chase the Penguin. Although you might reason that the Batmobile is serving as a distraction, no one gives chase. And so, the two allies still have to face a number of goons with guns), the Batmobile scene didn't smoothly fit into the movie.

(1) is definitely important, but it could have been any random right henchman in that position. Heck, if you still wanted to spinoff Penguin into his HBO show, you could still have that first meeting, and then also the Penguin's final appearance in this movie but cut everything else.


TL;DR - The Batman does a lot right on the technical side, but the creative and story decisions shows some lack of creativity or purpose.

[Yohei72]

I just saw it today as well. I enjoyed it. Good cinematography and use of lighting to make it stand out compared to something like a Marvel style film. I'm dumb as **** so I'm not going to comment on it beyond that.

What I adored though was the fact that the director and writer clearly understood that any kind of grim/realistic/edgy Batman/Bruce Wayne is a fucking loser with a loser ideology. Two years of randomly punching people in the face and trying to influence and control people's actions by fear is abusive and ineffective. That's why it didn't work and all he did was get a light put on top of a building and Riddler thinking that he wants to destroy the city. Trying to be 'vengeance' incarnate is what a fucking edgy teenager does because Bruce never really processed his grief or realised that his parents were flawed until deep into the film. At that point he realised that to effect change he needs to make a positive difference in the light and tries to be a figure of hope rather than fear.

I like Batman. I like the Bat family. I cannot abide the kind of Batman that I can't see sitting next to a dying girl to give her comfort in her final moments. Or that I can't see taking someone under their wing so they turn out better than he did. Batman that isn't trying to effect positive change is a useless failure at best or an abusive twat at worst.

Good summary of the central character arc. You don't seem dumb as **** to me.

I just wish the resulting film had engaged me more. I mean, I enjoyed it up to a point and I'll go see the sequel. I just want to be really blown away by a Batman movie, and I haven't been since Burton's second one (and I haven't seen that in almost 30 years, so who knows what I would think now? - I should rewatch, come to think of it).

[JBatmanFan05]

I just wish the resulting film had engaged me more. I mean, I enjoyed it up to a point and I'll go see the sequel. I just want to be really blown away by a Batman movie, and I haven't been since Burton's second one (and I haven't seen that in almost 30 years, so who knows what I would think now? - I should rewatch, come to think of it).

I agree. Didn't engage me enough, not blown away. At the end, the film finally belatedly tied up the thematic bow well enough, but at that point, I didn't much care.


I look at Batman (and other comic films) from two perspectives: 1) good Batman or [insert character] film, and 2) just a good film in general. The Batman is just not much of a good/great film in general, it's too long for its worth, despite this film offering some Batman accuracy (in certain areas). Joker (2019) is kinda the opposite, a pretty poor Joker (or Batman) film, but a surprisingly effective very good/great film.

Riddler as Mr. Vengeance, the force of vengeance used to convince Batman that he can't be all about vengeance...eh, Riddler has some vengeance-related stories/incarnations (though they're often pretty selfish motives), but he still doesn't feel like the best fit for that "society's vengeance" theme. It felt like a square peg being forced into a round hole some.

[Scott Taylor]

It's not the length of the comment that's the issue, it's the extraordinarily broad brush you use to paint 1 billion+ people.

Not the people.

[JBatmanFan05]

Not the people.

I agree, the government you clearly enough (to me) meant.