Action Comics issue #1024 Preview/ discussion (spoilers)

[Superlad93]

(African culture).

Lol same!

I don't think family dynamics and who calls who what is set in stone for everyone. I've had a case where someone younger than me is sometimes called "big" simply because of how much they take care of everyone around them as if they were indeed a big brother.

Exactly. Plus, all of the family friends that become uncle this or auntie that.

I'm even to the point where because I grew up very closely with three of my cousins, we introduce each other as brothers on reflex.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't know many people who actually call their older cousin once removed "cousin" this or that. I certainly don't. I was perfectly fine with it staying "cousin Kara" like in the Unity Saga when they met up, but I'm personally more receptive to "auntie Kara". Don't really care if it's not the proper term.

And I'm in favor of making Kara feel more mature (like how she was consistently drawn as taller than Jon during the Unity Saga), so again, I'm all for it.

I agree with this. Besides, kara has babysat jon if i remember correctly. But, i do feel moore being gone wasn't that much cathartic for me. She should have been a bit more fleshed out. Moreover, she was actually a nice addition. I want metropolis to be as lived in as possible . So as many cast members as possible for me. I am surprised Bendis hasn't included bibbo since he seems to be big admirer of jurgens and 90s superman.

[rpmaluki]

Lol same!



Exactly. Plus, all of the family friends that become uncle this or auntie that.

I'm even to the point where because I grew up very closely with three of my cousins, we introduce each other as brothers on reflex.

Exactly. Families can/are what people choose to make them. For us, family units often extended beyond what the west considers "nuclear".

[Yoda]

Yeah, "aunt" and "cousin" get tossed around quite liberally in my family tree. My kids have quite a few aunts and uncles that are no real relation. My wife grew up with a "cousin" that is actually her aunt.

I did not like what when down spoilers:

with Melody Moore. It's a classic "fridging" and I had a higher opinion of Bendis than that. I suppose it makes sense in the context of the story. Cloud had already tried to kill her once before, but it doesn't negate the fact that it is a fridging in that she was only killed to further Superman's man pain.

end of spoilers Other than that, I thought it was a decent issue. Glad Kara just shows up and we can skip over the whole BWL's nonsense with her.

[rpmaluki]

I agree with the spoilers:

fridging. It was a bad choice from Bendis. I figure he needed someone to actually die that wasn't part of the regular Superman cast (which would no doubt ruffle a lot of feathers more than he already has) but big enough for it to matter to the character but it doesn't make it okay. I did love the shot of all the supers ' "S" after they discovered Whisper, that was cool.

end of spoilers

[Superlad93]

I did not like what when down spoilers:

with Melody Moore. It's a classic "fridging" and I had a higher opinion of Bendis than that. I suppose it makes sense in the context of the story. Cloud had already tried to kill her once before, but it doesn't negate the fact that it is a fridging in that she was only killed to further Superman's man pain.

end of spoilers

I'll go up to bat on this one a bit. In my opinion, had Moore not had the autonomy she's had since issue one of Bendis' run in Man of Steel, and had her character been more of an appendage to Clark than the autonomous friend she's been then I'd call fridging hard. But she's been a protagonist in her own right. So much so that this whole thing could've been written from her perspective and it would've been just as action packed. She's the one that tips off Clark to the fires being set rather than accidents. She's wasn't scared of considering the idea that Superman may be starting the fires, and even when his name is cleared she still calls him out on how he cleared it and how he's conducting the investigation. She's the one who decides to go to Clark Kent with the dirt on the mayor. She has people that look up to and respect her. And she's the one who decides that she wants to run for mayor because of the events that she's specifically been through.

I feel like character can't and shouldn't be exempt from storytelling techniques like being a supporting character who gets killed where part of the effect is, yes, the pain of another character. Where I take issue is when the character isn't autonomous or more than that role or moment. I feel the same way about using characters of color as bad guys.

For me it's about sticking the landing now. I feel like if her self started subplot about cleaning up the city and running for mayor gets payed off then it lands well for, and becomes more than just Clark being mad for a page. This has been a story about a broken city infrastructure that Superman has been blind to on multiple levels. Paying that off in change is what I'd like to see.

[Robanker]

Goddammit. spoilers:

I liked Melody! Yeah, this was fridging to prop up a villain and hurt Clark. I really hope it's revealed to be a fakeout that Red Cloud can conjure up to mess with Clark, but I know otherwise...

end of spoilers

What a damn waste.

[Yoda]

I'll go up to bat on this one a bit. In my opinion, had Moore not had the autonomy she's had since issue one of Bendis' run in Man of Steel, and had her character been more of an appendage to Clark than the autonomous friend she's been then I'd call fridging hard. But she's been a protagonist in her own right. So much so that this whole thing could've been written from her perspective and it would've been just as action packed. She's the one that tips off Clark to the fires being set rather than accidents. She's wasn't scared of considering the idea that Superman may be starting the fires, and even when his name is cleared she still calls him out on how he cleared it and how he's conducting the investigation. She's the one who decides to go to Clark Kent with the dirt on the mayor. She has people that look up to and respect her. And she's the one who decides that she wants to run for mayor because of the events that she's specifically been through.

I feel like character can't and shouldn't be exempt from storytelling techniques like being a supporting character who gets killed where part of the effect is, yes, the pain of another character. Where I take issue is when the character isn't autonomous or more than that role or moment. I feel the same way about using characters of color as bad guys.

For me it's about sticking the landing now. I feel like if her self started subplot about cleaning up the city and running for mayor gets payed off then it lands well for, and becomes more than just Clark being mad for a page. This has been a story about a broken city infrastructure that Superman has been blind to on multiple levels. Paying that off in change is what I'd like to see.

I hear you. I think I'm more disappointed than anything else because she was an interesting character and had more potential. I don't know that her earlier autonomy or role really redeems it or lessens the impact, because this shifts the focus entirely onto Clark. And I'm very skeptical that there will be any payoff will be for her story lines beyond maybe like a speech "she was the best of us" type deal in whatever epilogue. Beyond that this almost assures her irrelevance going forward. I think an active and alive chief or mayor Moore is something that is particularly interesting in the context of Bendis' Metropolis and as unlikely as it would have been could have been something to continue on after he leaves. But mostly, I don't see this really adding anything to the story because really, we already had Clark & Crew pissed off that Lois & Jimmy were targeted in the last issue and even Jon being attacked to a certain extent. I'm not sure we needed this escalation to really bring things home. I think, especially when dealing with Superman, this level of escalation isn't needed - he would have been just as pissed off if they had targeted a bunch of randoms.

Now, I'll acknowledge this may be a fakeout - no body was shown and there are multiverse shenanigans inherent in this whole run so maybe we haven't seen the last of her. Ultimate Gwen Stacey and Peter Parker come to mind. But as things stand now, it's about as clear of an example of fridging as we've seen from Bendis in his entire stint at DC.

[Robanker]

I hear you. I think I'm more disappointed than anything else because she was an interesting character and had more potential. I don't know that her earlier autonomy or role really redeems it or lessens the impact, because this shifts the focus entirely onto Clark. And I'm very skeptical that there will be any payoff will be for her story lines beyond maybe like a speech "she was the best of us" type deal in whatever epilogue. Beyond that this almost assures her irrelevance going forward. I think an active and alive chief or mayor Moore is something that is particularly interesting in the context of Bendis' Metropolis and as unlikely as it would have been could have been something to continue on after he leaves. But mostly, I don't see this really adding anything to the story because really, we already had Clark & Crew pissed off that Lois & Jimmy were targeted in the last issue and even Jon being attacked to a certain extent. I'm not sure we needed this escalation to really bring things home. I think, especially when dealing with Superman, this level of escalation isn't needed - he would have been just as pissed off if they had targeted a bunch of randoms.

Now, I'll acknowledge this may be a fakeout - no body was shown and there are multiverse shenanigans inherent in this whole run so maybe we haven't seen the last of her. Ultimate Gwen Stacey and Peter Parker come to mind. But as things stand now, it's about as clear of an example of fridging as we've seen from Bendis in his entire stint at DC.

This. It was a waste. When there's a dire need to build up Metropolis, killing interesting characters with agency is outright terrible. Make no mistake, part of Metropolis got fridged. While obviously she was killed to make us and Clark care, I feel like enough had already been done. The Daily Planet compromised, Lois and Jimmy in the Red Cloud's cross hairs, the FBI watching for mistakes. At this point if you're not invested, you ain't gonna be.

I agree, Superlad, she did have agency and she was interesting. Characters need not be so sacred that supporting cast can't be hurt to motivate our hero. But this really did feel like cutting her plot short to motivate the hero.

I want this to be a fakeout. I don't think it is, but I have wanted Metropolis to grow for the longest time and this just reverses that direction. As a civilian, the best we'll get is she may be around after the next reboot once Bendis leaves or in adaptions, but I honestly doubt it.

Of all Bendis's additions to Metropolis, Moore had the largest potential for growth after Robinson and Leone, who are fools. Damn shame.

[Superlad93]

If it's a fakeout that works for me too, but I still say if she stays dead and the city is reformed in someway based on the work she independently started and brought to Clark's attention, then that still works for me. I think targeting Moore specifically, since she's someone who has been actively wrestling control away from Leone without even fully knowing it just because she's legit doing her part, is a strong message for the overall idea of the story. Her whole character does quite a lot to shine a light on Clark's shortcomings, and his relative complacency.

Ultimate Gwen Stacy does come to mind now that you mention it, and like I said, I'd be down for a fakeout. I think her as mayor (and a mayor willing to call Clark out) is an interesting prospect, but again, for me, the way the death means anything and works well is if change in the city comes from it.

[Superlad93]

I have wanted Metropolis to grow for the longest time and this just reverses that direction.

I think that's an overstatement though. She's a welcomed addition, for sure.

But if we're talking about the growth of Metropolis as an idea? She's only just a aspect of it. The true driving forces are still there and ever expanding. The simple concept of a whole underbelly of the city that speak in code, name themselves after candy, have words that they don't say because they've adapted to Superman is, and have their fingers in more pies than even Lex is the addition. The concept that Clark has been oblivious to this side of his city is the addition to the foundation of the city. You add onto that whatever Multiverse stuff Leone has cooking, and that's the expanse. Even the concept of the Superman Family functioning as an opposing mob family in the city is expanse.

These are functional and distinct additions that can be adapted, remixed, and heighten to created a more distinct Metropolis across media.

To be clear, this isn't me devaluing Moore as a character or you feelings or opinion (not even close). And ultimately, I'd like to have her back as an aspect of the growth we're seeing.

[Robanker]

I think that's an overstatement though. She's a welcomed addition, for sure.

But if we're talking about the growth of Metropolis as an idea? She's only just a aspect of it. The true driving forces are still there and ever expanding. The simple concept of a whole underbelly of the city that speak in code, name themselves after candy, have words that they don't say because they've adapted to Superman is, and have their fingers in more pies than even Lex is the addition. The concept that Clark has been oblivious to this side of his city is the addition to the foundation of the city. You add onto that whatever Multiverse stuff Leone has cooking, and that's the expanse. Even the concept of the Superman Family functioning as an opposing mob family in the city is expanse.

These are functional and distinct additions that can be adapted, remixed, and heighten to created a more distinct Metropolis across media.

To be clear, this isn't me devaluing Moore as a character or you feelings or opinion (not even close). And ultimately, I'd like to have her back as an aspect of the growth we're seeing.

I think a living character would have a larger impact than her death which will be forgotten following Bendis's run. Ultimately, time will tell, but as Yoda said this will be more of "she was the best of us" and then phase out.

Bendis is certainly pulling Metropolis in other ways as well and it's definitely grown as a result, but adding more players with agency keeps that moving forward. A deputy fire chief or mayor is one that compounds story; they build and build on it and keep generating returns in that effect.

Outside of the Daily Planet, Maggie, Dan and Bibbo, who does Metropolis have?

I do think I'm overplaying Moore, but I sorely miss civilian characters in comics and some of the new just, such as Moore and Trish Q, are very important to fleshing out supporting casts. Most superhero books ignore them altogether and Action/Superman were among the few places those kinds of characters got play. That's certainly a part of it.

I don't want to take away from Bendis's successes in building up Metropolis thus far, of which he's had a fair number, but Moore did come across as one which might have had the longest legs, so to speak. It's an honest shame she got cut short.

Nevertheless, you need not worry of misunderstanding. You've always been a thoughtful poster and I've greatly enjoyed your contributions and our discussions on this board. I'm grateful for a lot of you guys on these boards because I'd drive my lady crazy if I had nobody to discuss this stuff with.


Oh, and it's great to see Kara back to normal. The Secret Six really did her zero favors.

[Vordan]

“Olsen go find another Earth. Please.” Got a good laugh out of me.

[Jon Clark]

I for one applaud the death of Melody Moore. Bendis killed off a character he had fleshed out. All of the people posting about how much of an impact she could have made in future stories- that's why this death works for me. The Invisible Mafia did something stupid by pissing off Superman this way, but assuming they were determined to draw blood I'd rather have it be a character who matters. No silly fake-out crap like trying to kill Jimmy only for Superman (or another hero) to foil the plot. And nothing like killing off a paper thin character who was introduced in the same issue they died.