Thought on James Gunn's "The Suicide Squad"?

[Frontier]

I am a big fan of Gunns Guardians movies. Think they are pretty much perfect. That being said I don't think this looks terribly good. But then again I haven't enjoyed any DC movies since the Nolan Bat Trilogy. But I will probably see it because my son wants to check it out.

I hope he's improved on the action choreography and writing of female characters from the Guardians films.

[Dboi2001]

Now you're getting it.

getting what?

And you still haven’t answered my question. Do you think Ostrander’s run was campy? Because i think this movie looks very campy

[Jody Garland]

and you’re telling me it doesn’t satirize superhero tropes? Starship Trooper had actual characters and stakes but that’s was a satire too

I don't think it satirizes superhero tropes, no. It has fun with them and plays around, but it's purpose isn't to say the superhero genre is dumb or anything. To bring it back to comics, it's akin to saying Peter David's X-Factor was a parody because it frequently parodied superhero tropes.

i was talking about the characters themselves. characters like TDK, the polka dot man, weasel and Ratcatcher are innately stupid and humorous. Captain Boomerang is arguably the closest to this but they still take him seriously as a character and not just “aren’t boomerangs so silly?” And Ayers movie did the same thing and will probably be the same for this movie i’m not complaining about that. But just shoving as many obscure and stupid characters doesn’t make it funny

I know there was humor in it but it wasn’t just “look at these wacky characters are comics so silly?”

TDk and Polka-Dot Man I can get, but why do you think Ratcatcher is inherently goofy? It's a Batman villain from a gritty run based off of a horror movie. He has a pretty good not-goofy pedigree.

[Steel Inquisitor]

TDk and Polka-Dot Man I can get, but why do you think Ratcatcher is inherently goofy? It's a Batman villain from a gritty run based off of a horror movie. He has a pretty good not-goofy pedigree.

From Gunn's comments in Fandome, Ratcatcher is the most rational person in the movie. Just to drive home the absurdity of their situation. Normally Flagg would fill this role, but he appears to gone off-kilter since the last movie and his bizarre fashion choices.

[Hol]

I hope he's improved on the action choreography and writing of female characters from the Guardians films.

You didn’t like how he wrote the women in those films?

[Dboi2001]

I don't think it satirizes superhero tropes, no. It has fun with them and plays around, but it's purpose isn't to say the superhero genre is dumb or anything. To bring it back to comics, it's akin to saying Peter David's X-Factor was a parody because it frequently parodied superhero tropes.

Isn’t X Factor known as the edgy try hard X Men from the 80s and 90s? Parody doesn’t necessarily mean that the message is whatever they’re parodying is dumb or bad. Honestly maybe Guardians parodies/satirizes/is tongue in cheek space fantasy more than superheroes. But considering how different they are from the comics and the fact Gunn has said aspects of the guardians were stupid I just don’t put much faith in him to adapt Suicide Squad faithfully especially with the more campy feel because while Ostrander has humor it certainly wasn’t campy or goofy. Yes it has goofy elements but as a whole it was not very. Like I said I don’t think superhero movies all need to be “serious” and campiness works for many characters but I don’t see it for Suicide Squad. Yes it uses weird characters but that’s just the surface level. People criticized Ayer’s Suicide Squad for just skimming the surface and focusing on wacky characters over character development. Like what is your opinion on Ayer’s Suicide Squad? I personally don’t remember much of it besides Deadshot and Harley and am more disappointed that we’ll never see the Ayer cut since the first trailer looked really good

All I know is so many aspects of GotG made it seem like it was embarrassed to exist instead of embracing it. Like why is Korath the pursuer who works for Ronin the Accuser who also works for a guy named Thanos confused by Quill calling himself Star-Lord?

TDk and Polka-Dot Man I can get, but why do you think Ratcatcher is inherently goofy? It's a Batman villain from a gritty run based off of a horror movie. He has a pretty good not-goofy pedigree.

Well I never heard about this character and after Ant-Man and Aquaman are the butt of jokes because “talking to ants/fish is stupid” it rubs off onto other characters with animal-kinesis that are usually relatively harmless

[married guy]

Like even if Nathan Fillion as TDK (which btw is a waste he’d be awesome as Hal Jordan or Booster Gold) won’t last more than 20 minutes

I can't believe I never thought of Fillion as Booster. He'd be a GREAT choice!!

[Jody Garland]

Isn’t X Factor known as the edgy try hard X Men from the 80s and 90s? Parody doesn’t necessarily mean that the message is whatever they’re parodying is dumb or bad. Honestly maybe Guardians parodies/satirizes/is tongue in cheek space fantasy more than superheroes. *cut short for space reasons*

X-Force was the edgy series. X-Force varied quite a bit, but was often comedic in David's well received run. Like, one of the villains was a guy with a giant fan on his head called #1 Fan. it's considered one of the best X-Men runs, period, by a lot of X-fans.[/quote]

Like what is your opinion on Ayer’s Suicide Squad? I personally don’t remember much of it besides Deadshot and Harley and am more disappointed that we’ll never see the Ayer cut since the first trailer looked really good

Ayer's SS was fine, IMO. The cut was pretty bad but that was clearly an editing thing IMO. Tonally it could use some massaging to not be so edgy, but that's fine. The team itself I really liked, especially Katana and Croc.

Well I never heard about this character and after Ant-Man and Aquaman are the butt of jokes because “talking to ants/fish is stupid” it rubs off onto other characters with animal-kinesis that are usually relatively harmless

I imagine the big difference is there's never been a grity semi-gothic movie about a guy who talks to fish, but Willard exists. (Good movie, folks should check it out.) Ratcatcher is originally from the early 90s Doug Moench run and arose at a time when the Bat books were pretty thouroughly in their '90s phase.

[Dboi2001]

Alright thanks for the info

As I said in my initial post I have my issues with Gunn but I can’t say I hated GotG. They were enjoyable for what they were. But a part of me is a little ticked at how far marvel went to copy the movie with the comics. Now I obviously don’t blame Gunn I blame marvel editorial and Bendis but this change was so awful. Dan Abnett’s run is easily the best GotG run and Bendis just takes everything from that and flips it on its head. Every character was flanderized and Star Lord got hit the worst having all of the negative traits from the movie and none of Chris Pratt’s charm. Even under a better writer I still don’t think I’d like this Star Lord because of how different he was for no in universe reason. I mean Bendis’ beginning run was fine not exception but post movie just became really forgettable and killed of cosmic marvel. Again I don’t blame Gunn but apart of can’t help but to view his version with some contempt for what came after

So a part of me is a little nervous about that for the Suicide squad. Like Rebirth obviously changed the team to fit the movie with the lineup matching and everything. Then again Gunn already influenced the SS with GotG so there really isn’t much else he can change and I guess he is giving really obscure characters a spotlight though I still think Killer Frost or Poison Ivy should’ve been in it. Though a part of me would love to see Polka Dot Man cameo in a modern Batman comic considering Kite Man was unironically one of my favorite parts of king’s Batman run

An interesting side note Injustice 2 prequel comic actually has polka dot man as apart of the Suicide squad

Just after being disappointed with SS being a GotG rip off I was hoping the sequel would fulfill the gritty tone the first trailer promised but after hearing Gunn’s name being attached I just threw out all hope for that

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah and that’s the problem. As much as people want to make Ostrander’s run look like 24 after the first arc it became obvious the Deadshot, Bronze tiger and Flagg were the main characters. Even Flagg faked his death. What I’m getting at is in Ayer’s Suicide Squad it was obvious who was going to die within the first 10 minutes. This one is no different

Minor point, but Flagg didn't fake his death under John O. He was dead from issue 25 onward, and was later resurrected because writers thought that the Suicide Squad needed a stable cast (sigh)

[titanfan]

I can't believe I never thought of Fillion as Booster. He'd be a GREAT choice!!

I think he actually wanted/lobbied for the part back in the day. He's probably too old now but would have been good back in the day.

[titanfan]

Minor point, but Flagg didn't fake his death under John O. He was dead from issue 25 onward, and was later resurrected because writers thought that the Suicide Squad needed a stable cast (sigh)

The things with the comics--is that the main cast of Suicide Squad was actually really stable. At some point, Deadshot, Boomerang, Bronze Tiger, Nightshade, Nemesis, Vixen, Waller, Oracle, etc. were all going to survive. They had become too popular and had their own fan following. Flagg's death was meant to "shake up" things as Ostrander realized that things were becoming too safe. There was another tease later where Waller almost died.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The things with the comics--is that the main cast of Suicide Squad was actually really stable. At some point, Deadshot, Boomerang, Bronze Tiger, Nightshade, Nemesis, Vixen, Waller, Oracle, etc. were all going to survive. They had become too popular and had their own fan following. Flagg's death was meant to "shake up" things as Ostrander realized that things were becoming too safe. There was another tease later where Waller almost died.

The team underwent plenty of transition though. Simply because they didn't die doesn't mean the roster was stable.

Nemesis spent a long time in Russia, before quitting around 25. Nightshade quit at the end of that mission, Deadshot was in the nuthouse, etc.

The team was always in a state of flux. Only when they came back as mercs did it stabilize some.

[Frontier]

You didn’t like how he wrote the women in those films?

He turned Gamora into more of a standardized token girl and Mantis went from probably one of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe to a ditzy empath who is the butt of jokes and constantly called "ugly" by Drax.

I think Nebula he did fine with.