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  1. #106
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the thing with Quinn, though, is that she does plenty bad while meaning to.
    Like how she was smiling eagerly as the Joker was about to shove a drill into Gordon's face, or aided him in mentally and physically torturing a teenage boy into insanity.

    And these were stories by her actual creators. Unlike Batman, the Joker and pretty much every iconic Bat-Mythos character, Harley shot to popularity and iconic status while she was mostly still in the hands of her creators who were able to shape her key characteristics and dynamics. And give her an arc. She's become more than that now, but when we see other authors takes on her and her dynamics with the Joker and Ivy in particular, it comes across as less interesting fanfic where the characters feel a bit "off." I think she's a character that doesn't always quite work as well removed from her original context.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 09-11-2020 at 06:19 PM.

  2. #107
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Like how she was smiling eagerly as the Joker was about to shove a drill into Gordon's face, or aided him in mentally and physically torturing a teenage boy into insanity.

    And these were stories by her actual creators. Unlike Batman, the Joker and pretty much every iconic Bat-Mythos character, Harley shot to popularity and iconic status while she was mostly still in the hands of her creators who were able to shape her key characteristics and dynamics. And give her an arc. She's become more than that now, but when we see other authors takes on her and her dynamics with the Joker and Ivy in particular, it comes across as less interesting fanfic where the characters feel a bit "off." I think she's a character that doesn't always quite work as well removed from her original context.
    This is I also feel is true. It was understandable that she could fall for for the animated series version of Joker and want to help him out. He had more of the mentality whee he just wanted to have fun regardless of what the law said. Comics Joker is a lot more murdery. It'd harder to see that guy as misunderstood and harley helping him out becomes a lot more unforgivable.

  3. #108
    Astonishing Member kurenai24's Avatar
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    My reason for disliking Harley is that she's not the character that I started liking, I liked her as the Joker's right hand and as a villain, yeah characters evolve but I don't think she's really evolved despite her popularity, I think they've just changed her direction and that caught on at the right time; I also think she plays into this popular thing of making female villains into heroes/antiheros/vigilantes instead of just letting them just be villains and it sucks she was put through that ...anyway, I just think she's moved into a different lane and I don't like that direction.

  4. #109

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    I wouldn't mind DC treating Harley Quinn like they did with Deathstroke during the Priest Era.

    Give her nuance and complexity but embrace the fact that she is a Villian.

  5. #110
    All-New Member BoredEnthusiast's Avatar
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    I think that's probably the best way it could go. I wouldn't mind a series of her being a complex villain rather than an anti-hero.

  6. #111

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    I think Harley Quinn can be a good antihero but I don't think the current DCU has really earned it.

  7. #112
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    I prefer Harley as the crazy supervillain. She doesn't have to be with the Joker to be relevant.
    I just don't buy her as an anti-hero like Catwoman.

    I don't like Harley has far more respect than Catwoman who has existed for 80 years.
    Catwoman should have her own cartoon series before Harley did.
    I created a thread about Dick Grayson/Nightwing and Koriand'r/Starfire.
    It is to acknowledge and honor their iconic and popular relationship.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/teen-...rfire-1975639/

    I created a fan page about Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson.
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  8. #113
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    It's because she been overused and somehow is this top tier villain able to get away from Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman. She is able to beat many heroes for no reason. I mean BoP would have been better if she was with the GCS

  9. #114
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    In today's cultural shift in comics, media, everything almost etc
    there was no path for Harley to continue to be the abused sidekick of the Joker
    I mean that should go without saying they can have Joker to do bad things but to show the true abuse between Harley and Joker like you saw in BTAS or mad love would be a no go.
    Even suicide squad to its own detriment mind you had to cut a lot of the abusive scenes between Leto and Margot Robbie because it just wasn't palpable

    Even having her continue as a villain away from him is a hard sell. Harley is not inherently evil like the Joker. She merely reflects the same mentality he forced on her. Away from his influence she should naturally be an anti hero
    Even in the cartoon series
    Harley is bad but she isn't "evil" in her mind like some of the other villains in the show.

  10. #115
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    In today's cultural shift in comics, media, everything almost etc
    there was no path for Harley to continue to be the abused sidekick of the Joker
    I mean that should go without saying they can have Joker to do bad things but to show the true abuse between Harley and Joker like you saw in BTAS or mad love would be a no go.
    Even suicide squad to its own detriment mind you had to cut a lot of the abusive scenes between Leto and Margot Robbie because it just wasn't palpable

    Even having her continue as a villain away from him is a hard sell. Harley is not inherently evil like the Joker. She merely reflects the same mentality he forced on her. Away from his influence she should naturally be an anti hero
    Even in the cartoon series
    Harley is bad but she isn't "evil" in her mind like some of the other villains in the show.
    She's not as evil as the Joker but she has been shown in the past to enjoy the lifestyle of a dangerous criminal and the freedom of what she can do outside the law. Obviously Joker brought that out in her but it's part of who she is, and she's embraced it even when she's away from him.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    She's not as evil as the Joker but she has been shown in the past to enjoy the lifestyle of a dangerous criminal and the freedom of what she can do outside the law. Obviously Joker brought that out in her but it's part of who she is, and she's embraced it even when she's away from him.
    Yeah, agreed.

    And more than that, I think it's too often overlooked that Harley struck up a romantic relationship with Joker despite know the kind of man that he is. She knew he was a murderer (among so many other crimes) when she became entangled. She's due some sympathy sure, but only so far

  12. #117
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    She is overrated that's all. She works best as Joker's deranged sidekicks, but DC really overstay her like Venom or Wolverine in 90s so no wonder people hate her.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

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  13. #118

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    After reading Garcia's Joker/Harley series, I like its take on Joker and Harley but I can't see it's take on Harley becoming the classic Harley Quinn. She often reads like an older Barbara Gordon who never became Batgirl. But there are 4 more issues left so maybe she will be a take on Harley Quinn than the take.

    I don't hate the idea of Harley Quinn in a Birds of Prey film, it feels like an idea for a potential sequel than an origin movie.

  14. #119
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    After reading Garcia's Joker/Harley series, I like its take on Joker and Harley but I can't see it's take on Harley becoming the classic Harley Quinn. She often reads like an older Barbara Gordon who never became Batgirl. But there are 4 more issues left so maybe she will be a take on Harley Quinn than the take.

    I don't hate the idea of Harley Quinn in a Birds of Prey film, it feels like an idea for a potential sequel than an origin movie.
    Is that the one where she's a profiler?

  15. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Is that the one where she's a profiler?
    yeah and I'm interested in that take of Harley Quinn/Joker going up against Pattinson's Batman. They just feel like they would fit his take to me (or rather what I think his take is gonna be).

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