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  1. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Thats not what a free pass is. Its a get out of jail free card that people will use to excuse your actions. Being possessed by the PF didnt do that for him. Throughout Aaron's run you had the X-men at the JGS hate him and throw Xavier in his his face. Bendis reinforced that too. None of that stopped until Scott died and was resurrected last year with X back himself. People accepting Scott is independent of him being possessed by the PF. That was never his get of jail free card
    Scott literally got a get out of jail free card. He was put in prison briefly to wait for his trial, did a jail break, went on the run for a while then was eventually welcomed back to everyone with open arms. He can go to global summits and nobody bats an eye lash about the guy who went to jail for conquering the world. I don't see Wanda getting away with this if the positions were reversed. She was literally murdered by an X-man and tried to bring back millions of mutants from death and people still want her under the prison permanently. Right now what happened in AvX and Revolutionary Cyclops may as well be from another reality because current Cyclops is not defined by anything from that time period in universe or out of it.

  2. #917
    Mighty Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Cyclops got a free pass eventually. It wasn't overnight, but ultimately people stopped caring and moved on. Same thing for Wanda mostly, outside of the x books. It took years, but these things blow over.

    Everyone has been in this position ... it sucks but it happens.
    Theres no comparison though. Scott had possession forced upon him by Tony Stark and was relentlessly attacked until he had to act in self defense. Wanda sought ultimate power from the worlds greatest villain. She is the agent of what she did, Scott was not. And yet he still was locked in a prison by the Avengers, was lucky to escape a murder attempt, hunted, ostracized, maligned and murdered by the inhumans, and more.

  3. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by useridgoeshere View Post
    There’s no comparison though. Scott had possession forced upon him by Tony Stark and was relentlessly attacked until he had to act in self defense. Wanda sought ultimate power from the world’s greatest villain. She is the agent of what she did, Scott was not. And yet he still was locked in a prison by the Avengers, was lucky to escape a murder attempt, hunted, ostracized, maligned and murdered by the inhumans, and more.
    The Avengers tried to kill the Phoenix, they didn't intend for Scott and the others to get possessed it. They didn't force it on him, that was was an unintended side affect. He also refused to give Hope the Phoenix when she asked, and conquered the world. Of course the Avengers weren't going to let that stand. They also made a regime that put imprisoned the captured Avengers in a false reality like Matrix controlled by Danger that was a demoralising Groundhog Day of them escaping a false prison that they hated being in "temporarily" because world conquerors who put prisoners through dials like that are known for being trustworthy.

    Before the retcon in CC Wanda had a mental breakdown from her reality altering powers, after CC she tried to seek help in getting her sons back from Doom. Dr. Strange refused because reasons. She was not in her right mind when she made the "No more mutants" happen, she was possessed by a powerful force in the universe that was mentally breaking her down, her family were all manipulating her for their own ends and various super-heroes tried to murder her in a brief amount of time.

    he wasn't locked away in prison, he was kept in prison until his trial. Instead of waiting he bounced and only suffered some brief parish state (which Wanda would kill for to have right now) and he became the Cyclops we know and love and nobody cares about what he did anymore. The lesson with Cyclops is if a character has a strong writer protecting them and is on the lam long enough all they get to have everything they ever wanted and nobody will bring up what they did every again in a comic book. Jean Grey didn't even get this when she came back, the Phoenix defined her as an experience to Cyclops it was just another misadventure he had which will never be bought up again, like when he was possessed by Apocalypse.

  4. #919
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The Avengers tried to kill the Phoenix, they didn't intend for Scott and the others to get possessed it. They didn't force it on him, that was was an unintended side affect. He also refused to give Hope the Phoenix when she asked, and conquered the world. Of course the Avengers weren't going to let that stand. They also made a regime that put imprisoned the captured Avengers in a false reality like Matrix controlled by Danger that was a demoralising Groundhog Day of them escaping a false prison that they hated being in "temporarily" because world conquerors who put prisoners through dials like that are known for being trustworthy.

    Before the retcon in CC Wanda had a mental breakdown from her reality altering powers, after CC she tried to seek help in getting her sons back from Doom. Dr. Strange refused because reasons. She was not in her right mind when she made the "No more mutants" happen, she was possessed by a powerful force in the universe that was mentally breaking her down, her family were all manipulating her for their own ends and various super-heroes tried to murder her in a brief amount of time.

    he wasn't locked away in prison, he was kept in prison until his trial. Instead of waiting he bounced and only suffered some brief parish state (which Wanda would kill for to have right now) and he became the Cyclops we know and love and nobody cares about what he did anymore. The lesson with Cyclops is if a character has a strong writer protecting them and is on the lam long enough all they get to have everything they ever wanted and nobody will bring up what they did every again in a comic book. Jean Grey didn't even get this when she came back, the Phoenix defined her as an experience to Cyclops it was just another misadventure he had which will never be bought up again, like when he was possessed by Apocalypse.
    In AvX Consequences is made clear that the goverment put Cyclops on that commom prison hoping that the other prisioners would murder him. The guard and the warden would actually create opportunities for it to happen, Cyclops knew it and still didn't wanted to escape at first, even with Magneto offering to break him out.

    The reason why the goverment wanted to get Cyclops killed was because they knew he had a good chance of getting acquited on trial because of the Phoenix, this is stated on the comic, and when Logan confronts Captain America about it, he doesn't deny. With all that, after suffering murder attempts, Cyclops only break out of jail after the only other mutant inmate is killed with the guards not only letting it happen but preventing Cyclops from stoping the murder. Only then Scott takes Magneto offer and break out because he believed that he had to fight to prevent what he witnessed continuing.

  5. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    Wanda doesnt deserve sympathy, like at all she never gave any to the mutants she ruined and she had no compassion to cyclops OR rogue, and she was never their friend at best she was an aquaintance, the x-men can dance in her grave and it wouldn't be nearly half of what she put them trough
    Let them do that then, would they leave her alone afterwards? Seriously I am just starting to find X-franchise annoying when it just keep on using characters from other franchises as their fucking narrative tools.

  6. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    wanda did house of m and she is a mooron, she is the type of person that could do house of m because she did it, there's no point in denial
    Yeah, let's now make every character's worst OOC moment their poster and slogan.
    I will agree denial is pointless, but I don't want her thrown into a shitshow along with X-Men once in a while because of it any longer.
    Just make her pretend mutants don't exist when doing a story actually about her, let her go on her own business.
    She served as their plot device, be grateful for so much X-drama at the expense of her character.

  7. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Exactly. It was just the latest in a string of Wanda seeking loopholes and justifications to get her out of trouble rather than OWNING what she did. Imagine how different it would be if she had reached out to ANYONE and asked how she can help. Maybe she would have been rejected at Ford it, or even the first several times. Which is fair as hell! But it would show the mutants that she was WILLING to accept her sin and work to redeem herself on THEIR terms!

    Instead, she did a hasty, unwise thing to make HERSELF feel better - which is EXACTLY what got her in this position to begin with! - against sound advice to NOT do it, and made another mutant tragedy all about herself.

    My hope is that eventually, she will recognize her errors and actually do the right thing so we can all move on.
    Very good statement you make, too bad no X-writers care about Wanda as a character and see her as the plot device for more drama for X-Men.
    These kinds of posts act like it's not the X-wrtiers that intend to fuck her over.
    "All about herself" is the funniest thing I ever heard, isn't this kind of fuck-up always for mutant drama and never benefit her own character?

  8. #923
    Mighty Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    So when they gonna make Wanda the Phoenix already?
    The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. Its the only thing theyll respect. - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  9. #924

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    So when they gonna make Wanda the Phoenix already?
    She doesn't need that. Everything is already enough of a mess.
    Was Curlytop

  10. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Yeah, let's now make every character's worst OOC moment their poster and slogan.
    I will agree denial is pointless, but I don't want her thrown into a shitshow along with X-Men once in a while because of it any longer.
    Just make her pretend mutants don't exist when doing a story actually about her, let her go on her own business.
    She served as their plot device, be grateful for so much X-drama at the expense of her character.
    when said ooc moment is more important and relevant than 40 years of history that's what happens, it is what it is if in 40 years of existence she never once got a writer to be interested on the character, then maybe her being used as a plot device isnt that bad since clearly nothing of value was lost.

  11. #926

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    when said ooc moment is more important and relevant than 40 years of history that's what happens, it is what it is if in 40 years of existence she never once got a writer to be interested on the character, then maybe her being used as a plot device isnt that bad since clearly nothing of value was lost.
    That's not even remotely true. It's just important to x-fans. Stop being antagonizing.
    Was Curlytop

  12. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Yeh it would be a mess.
    Krakoa has always cared about dupes. Jean Grey's role on the space mission in HOX was to confirm the deaths of the team so they could be resurrected. Its mentioned in Xavier's data pages for that issue that a person can not be resurrected unless their death has been documented. Its also mentioned that eventually they would need to hav a task force to investigate this (which became X-factor). How would Wanda know? She would by talking to Xavier and its her failure to not contact him about her plans
    Krkao did absolutely nothing for months and X-factor (a group of something like five people) only came into existence recently and not by design of the government. For all Krakao's insistence that they care about not making duplicates they did nothing to monitor it. It was words, not actions.

    Wanda's not in Xavier's circle, she's not in anyone's in Krakoa. Dr. Strange has more of an in than she does and knows nothing about things like this - which is deliberate on Krakoa's part. Classic Xavier 's dead, this Xavier isn't open for business for his old friends. He can't even "visit" the Fantastic Four without creating a scene.

    Wanda is not mentally ill. That may have flown during Disassembled and HOM but the Wanda we have today is perfectly sane and aware of her actions. You cant blame mental illness for what she did on Empyre. That get out of jail card expired a long time ago.
    She was, and my argument about Empire is a seperate subject to the circumstances of what she did in Empyre. And those actions are she didn't intent to create a zombie army, she made a big error, because she was written like a plot device who had to fail. There was no option for her to succeed since how she's written is not in her power to change since she's fictional. Except in this discussion her mental illness hasn't been respected as an explanation of why she deserves leniency. It's glossed over as if she did everything in her right mind, like she was Sinister in "Powerless."

    Im going by the book. Wanda had no plan for the mutants beyond bringing them back. Where would 16 million mutants go? Genosha was uninhabitable right now. Immigration laws and policies exist and no country is just going to accept 16M incoming beings. Lets be real, it would be Krakoa's problem bc they are the only nation on Earth thats dedicated to mutants and their prosperity. As it stands, its population is in the thousands. It cant accomodate 16 million people tomorrow. Thats something it was planning to build up to over time
    This is about bad writing, which Wanda's suffered for years. Have you read anything with Wanda before House of M? Genosha's not in the middle of an ocean, it's right next to countries. Magneto lived their for months on his own with no powers, 16 million mutants with powers wouldn't die immediately without Krakoa guidance. No, but they'd hear about it and those mutants wouldn't stay in Genosha indefinitely. They might be able to rebuilt, though. Krkaoa wants to be the sole nation for mutants, that's why they're not letting Genosha be resettled again - that'd be competition and we saw how they treat competition in X-Force. The problem is not everyone is on their schedule and they're not entitled to those mutants just because they're mutants.

    Krakoa offers therapy to the resurrected mutants and thinks about their mentally well being as they decide who is brought back. They are able to do this bc they arent mass bringing people back by the millions. It a traumatic thing to die and come back. Wanda wasnt planning on offering any form of mental help. According to you she is mentally ill and not even equipped for that.
    Krakoa can't even mentally help Alex Summers, post-Inversion. They just thew him on Sinister's Sucicide Squad. They haven't bothered trying to mentally heal the various super-villains into not being amoral psychopaths. We hear about these miracles Krakoa supposedly does but where is the proof that they do it? Domino's healthier in X-Force, because she wasn't resurrected with her full memories intact of when she was tortured and that was against her will. Krakoa's also increasing the numbers, because they want as many people as possible in their ranks - they want all the Genosha mutants absorbed into their country, and they don't care about the problematic implications that that is another country's population or the fact these very same mutants have absolutely no presence in the books unless they were names before they moved to Genosha. For example, it was allot point in "Powerless" that numerous unnamed factions were only kept in check in Genosha, and wanted revenge on him for his brutal practices to keep them in line this is why he relied on Polairs to boost his powers so he wouldn't be seen as weak in public. Where are these people in Krakoa? If they're not in Krkaoa, where are they? We don't know.

    She was mentally ill during the Avengers: Disassembled/House of M period, now she's criminally incompetent. To put this characterisation in perspective, I'll use Cyclops as an example. Everyone knows he's a great leader, plans everything out to the minute detail. Now imagine one day any time he lead a mission it'd fail horrifically, so badly he'd be personally blamed for those very consequences even if he didn't mean it. People die, large scale disasters. The X-men put him anywhere near a leadership slot, that's the result. This is how he's written for years, aside from the occasionally writer who is the exception - this is what's happening to Wanda. It's a gag at this stage. She's a plot device used to make things worse and to be yelled at by others for trying to fix her mistakes for things she's known to be good at. She isn't Quicksilver.


    Illyana's not resurrecting anyone with unstable demonic magic. If you dont understand why thats a big deal, then i dont know what to tell you
    Illyana is basically the Mephisto of a Hell dimension. It's not about resurrection, it's about her using her powers - and a big part of who she is is from Limbo. She became a literal demon because of this in Inferno, and it wasn't't because she had a breakdown. She not using demonic magic, she is demonic magic. Illyana's a character with numerous questionable decisions revolving around being corrupted by her power, including hurting her brother Collossus to teach him a "lesson" - but that's all in the past now and is a Captain. But Wanda? They want nothing to do with her.

  13. #928
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    it is what is wanda doesnt deserve any better, better hope for a recton to mirror her mcu version

  14. #929

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    She definitely deserved better than to be put on the radar of obsessive and childish faux analysis.
    Was Curlytop

  15. #930
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Krkao did absolutely nothing for months and X-factor (a group of something like five people) only came into existence recently and not by design of the government. For all Krakao's insistence that they care about not making duplicates they did nothing to monitor it. It was words, not actions.

    Wanda's not in Xavier's circle, she's not in anyone's in Krakoa. Dr. Strange has more of an in than she does and knows nothing about things like this - which is deliberate on Krakoa's part. Classic Xavier 's dead, this Xavier isn't open for business for his old friends. He can't even "visit" the Fantastic Four without creating a scene.
    Look at those resurrected on Krakoa. All of those characters were already confirmed dead. When Northstar went to the Five, they refused bc Aurora's death was not confirmed, which prompted the formation of X-Factor. Its hard to have a discussion with you when you flat out ignore the text on teh page. The duplication issue was explicitly addressed prior to X-Factor #1 in House of X and I gave you an example of when that was monitored

    Wanda isnt in Xavier's circle but its well known that Krakoa exists as a nation for mutants. An influx of 16M is going to be on their radar. It was shortsighted of her to not consult Xavier prior to her spell or even warn him about what she had done after the fact
    Last edited by Havok83; 09-17-2020 at 05:37 AM.

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