Wanda's “unforgivable” crime?!

[Zelena]

No that sets a bad example. Saying that mental breakdowns could cause someone to commit genocide is extreme and very untrue. Not to mention a dangerous stereotype. Possession wouldn't make her a bad person. Genocide definitely makes someone a bad person. And again she didn't have an established history, this is just something they tried to tack on her. Not to mention the tastelessness of having a Roma character commit genocide. Whomever let that through needs to think about what they depicted.

Ah, but she didn’t commit a genocide, it wasn’t: “Kill all mutants”…

Manipulating reality is what Wanda does. Extricating what she considered as a curse from people when she was holding her dead brother killed by her father was her intention. She wanted no more sufferings, it was a cure.

Of course, the mutants didn’t share her opinion and were upset. But then, a good author would have shown, I think, mixed feelings about this: some mutants are very easy with their mutations and are proud of them, for others, it’s indeed a curse.

[MaximoffTrash]

Ah, but she didn’t commit a genocide, it wasn’t: “Kill all mutants”…

Manipulating reality is what Wanda does. Extricating what she considered as a curse from people when she was holding her dead brother killed by her father was her intention. She wanted no more sufferings, it was a cure.

Of course, the mutants didn’t share her opinion and were upset. But then, a good author would have shown, I think, mixed feelings about this: some mutants are very easy with their mutations and are proud of them, for others, it’s indeed a curse.

Kinda right, but not really. Pre-HoM Wanda's power established by Kurt Busiek is sort of "equal exchange" of energy input and effect output, basically she can achieve mass scale reality warping given enough energy(later sorta explained by Life Force), but Bendis basically acted like "the crazy the chick is, the more powerful she gets"(which is the major misunderstanding most people have with Wanda's power set).
So basically in Bendis's eye, the power of crazy gave her the nerve and the actual power to just fuck over the entire world, yup.

[Steel Inquisitor]

what bro??????? the poster was talking about the period betwen decimation and avx and further extinction stories like inhumans vs x-men, hickman giviing rosenberg notes isnt comparable to the near decade after the decimation that were caused by wanda's character.

The poster bought up the X-men's misery porn period, Roseberg contributed to that - on Hickman's orders. Rosenberg, and therefore Hickman, didn't have to start it or do the majority of it to add to that status quo. If you want to get technical it was by editorial degree, all Wanda was an instrument to get that result. And it was horribly executed, which has haunted the character since because she was seen as expendable. They're not going to let Dr. Strange do that.

whats the coorelation betwen a convo about the decimation and how it created an era and resentment betwen x-fans and the rest of marvel to 2019 uncanny x-men (not even the full the vol but the second half)?

Hickman and Rosenberg. Rather than lightening it up with hope, they wanted it to get as depressing as possible so when Hickman began he would be seen in a positive light. It's a storytelling trick to manipulate readers into buying into the new status quo. The resentment of the fans had to go on full blast for it to work, so they'd be relived once Hitman kicked off his run and it worked spectacularly. Most fans have no idea Hickman had any say in that period and they absolutely hate that period of comics, especially Rosenberg's run.

[Lee Stone]

My suggestion is for Marvel to create a new cosmic entity that's the embodiment of inborn mutant sorcery, and say it possessed her.
Maybe even say it replaced her, and left her real body in a cocoon at the bottom of the Atlantic.

[MaximoffTrash]

so ignore 7 years of stories, 3 big events and the reason why we have certain characters like hope summers, magik back from the ded etc.
Do you want hundreds of titles with dozens of characters to be ignored because you want your favorite character to be "better"? you do understand no x-men writer would abide to that, to refuse to aproach and deal with that continuity for a character so insignificant not even the mcu's counterpart popularity can assure a place in a book.

Im sorry but wanda is categorically tied to HoM its the most relevant story she has ever been in, the entire x-men line is more important than wanda so dont expect anyone to save her from a good x-men story for x-men fans, it's just how the cookie crumbles

Yeah, so I demand a quick death and less irritation.
And the better approach is just treat her as the background bougeyman without actually dragging her into the mud.
Yeah, the story is pretty relevant, except it's not about her, and has nearly everything wrong about her. Seriously, it's not like they are still in the crisis directly posed by Wanda, she is one history lesson of mutant kind. So bash her all they want in a class or something.
But just don't suddenly make her remorseful or stupid now and then and create drama for mutants. Sure they are important and precious, doesn't give them the right to fuck others over.

[MaximoffTrash]

My suggestion is for Marvel to create a new cosmic entity that's the embodiment of inborn mutant sorcery, and say it possessed her.
Maybe even say it replaced her, and left her real body in a cocoon at the bottom of the Atlantic.

Or just use Chthon or Set, Mephisto even.
I get the joke though.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Yeah, so I demand a quick death and less irritation.
And the better approach is just treat her as the background bougeyman without actually dragging her into the mud.
Yeah, the story is pretty relevant, except it's not about her, and has nearly everything wrong about her. Seriously, it's not like they are still in the crisis directly posed by Wanda, she is one history lesson of mutant kind. So bash her all they want in a class or something.
But just don't suddenly make her remorseful or stupid now and then and create drama for mutants. Sure they are important and precious, doesn't give them the right to fuck others over.

Wanda's choices after HoM would be incredible to have in a mutant classroom, but if its anything less than discussion about all the factors rather than bashing her all that's going to do is harm the perception of Wanda further to readers and writers and the only logical conclusion would be that they go after her to attack or kill her. That's what Exodus indoctrination is hinting at about Wanda to his students. They're not getting an unbiased report from Exodus about anything.

[MaximoffTrash]

Wanda's choices after HoM would be incredible to have in a mutant classroom, but if its anything less than discussion about all the factors rather than bashing her all that's going to do is harm the perception of Wanda further to readers and writers and the only logical conclusion would be that they go after her to attack or kill her. That's what Exodus indoctrination is hinting at about Wanda to his students. They're not getting an unbiased report from Exodus about anything.

Because discussing the factors for HoM cannot really happen without bias since the facts are twisted themselves even without told through the mouths of other.
The writer himself twisted those facts.

[Kisinith]

The poster bought up the X-men's misery porn period, Roseberg contributed to that - on Hickman's orders. Rosenberg, and therefore Hickman, didn't have to start it or do the majority of it to add to that status quo. If you want to get technical it was by editorial degree, all Wanda was an instrument to get that result. And it was horribly executed, which has haunted the character since because she was seen as expendable. They're not going to let Dr. Strange do that.



Hickman and Rosenberg. Rather than lightening it up with hope, they wanted it to get as depressing as possible so when Hickman began he would be seen in a positive light. It's a storytelling trick to manipulate readers into buying into the new status quo. The resentment of the fans had to go on full blast for it to work, so they'd be relived once Hitman kicked off his run and it worked spectacularly. Most fans have no idea Hickman had any say in that period and they absolutely hate that period of comics, especially Rosenberg's run.

Sort of, Rosenberg effectively had one year where he was told to tread water and was told ahead of time that Hickman was coming in with a plan that was going to lighten the tone and setting for the X-line and he needed to keep the tone dark. Key words there are "keep the tone" not "set the tone". The misery porn period has lasted a hell of a lot longer than that, pretty much the entire time they've been 1 step away from extinction with every other story involving kids on school busses or extinction plots of the week. The actual details and decisions of Rosenbergs run were his to make and if you heard about what he wanted to do it was even worse (omega mutant children wars).

Anyway back on topic, I don't know that he'll stick the landing, but fixing the X-Men line involves addressing decimation which means addressing Wanda. In a few short panels he's had her showing remorse for what happened and trying to fix it. Her attempt was poorly thought out and failed hilariously but its comic books so that should be expected. Whats important is that 1) she's trying (this would have worked well for her as a follow up to CC) and 2) She's remorseful something she was not in UA.

I have some general philosophies on what kind of work you should do at Marvel, that I try and adhere to. I think the stories should be big. Any time you can mine your continuity and the existing continuity of the company in a way that evokes a response from audience and not confusion, that's powerful, and you're crazy not to utilize it when you're writing these books. The cardinal rule beyond that is at the end of the day, after you've torn up the playroom and scattered all the toys, you put everything all back on the shelf. Don't be an a—hole and leave a mess.

You want to tell stories that matter, but the way you write things that matter in Marvel is that you're not destructive, you're additive. Yes, I may do things where I destroy the entire Marvel Universe, but I always put it back together, and in putting it together you add to it in a way that puts the characters in an interesting place and you haven't ruined anybody else's job.

[GenericUsername]

so ignore 7 years of stories, 3 big events and the reason why we have certain characters like hope summers, magik back from the ded etc.
Do you want hundreds of titles with dozens of characters to be ignored because you want your favorite character to be "better"? you do understand no x-men writer would abide to that, to refuse to aproach and deal with that continuity for a character so insignificant not even the mcu's counterpart popularity can assure a place in a book.

Im sorry but wanda is categorically tied to HoM its the most relevant story she has ever been in, the entire x-men line is more important than wanda so dont expect anyone to save her from a good x-men story for x-men fans, it's just how the cookie crumbles

Marvel has shown they have no problem ignoring decades of stories, so that's nothing new. :P And HoM isn't most relevant it's just the most infamous. The story wasn't about her.

Marvel has hit the self destruct button on at least a version of this character (being that there are two Wandas in Empyre). I'm not sure you want that in Krakoa. Those zombies might start scaling buildings like the Hulk or something.

She's better off on A-Side. X-side is better handling it's own stories.

[GenericUsername]

In fact, Ian McNee even points to Chthon and Set as chief suspects in Marvel Tarot

I do remember this. Too bad they didn't follow up on it.

[GenericUsername]

Ah, but she didn’t commit a genocide, it wasn’t: “Kill all mutants”…

Manipulating reality is what Wanda does. Extricating what she considered as a curse from people when she was holding her dead brother killed by her father was her intention. She wanted no more sufferings, it was a cure.

Of course, the mutants didn’t share her opinion and were upset. But then, a good author would have shown, I think, mixed feelings about this: some mutants are very easy with their mutations and are proud of them, for others, it’s indeed a curse.

Marvel considers it genocide because of the resulting deaths. Sure you can stretch it because it was shock value, and say well she didn't mean it. But they also don't write it like that really matters all that much.

Wanda does not manipulate reality. Not really. She taps into energies and can only manipulate reality if the power itself is enough to allow her to do that. She is not Franklin Richards.

A lot of people died as a result of Wanda going "crazy." And even when they talk about insanity in the story, it's in a very ableist way. So no, it's not a positive depiction of mental illness by far. They never even gave her a diagnosis, had her really treated. Strange and Xavier don't count because they aren't psychologists, nor psychiatrists. It was just the crazy does evil things trope.

[gurkle]

so ignore 7 years of stories, 3 big events and the reason why we have certain characters like hope summers, magik back from the ded etc.
Do you want hundreds of titles with dozens of characters to be ignored because you want your favorite character to be "better"? you do understand no x-men writer would abide to that, to refuse to aproach and deal with that continuity for a character so insignificant not even the mcu's counterpart popularity can assure a place in a book.

Im sorry but wanda is categorically tied to HoM its the most relevant story she has ever been in, the entire x-men line is more important than wanda so dont expect anyone to save her from a good x-men story for x-men fans, it's just how the cookie crumbles

Again, all those stories are exactly the same no matter who or what caused Decimation. The stories had nothing to do with Wanda because she was just the plot device to make it happen.

There isn’t anything that is lost from those stories if Wanda’s role is retconned or ignored. The writers can deal with that era all they want. It’s just that Wanda didn’t do it.

[XPac]

Sort of, Rosenberg effectively had one year where he was told to tread water and was told ahead of time that Hickman was coming in with a plan that was going to lighten the tone and setting for the X-line and he needed to keep the tone dark. Key words there are "keep the tone" not "set the tone". The misery porn period has lasted a hell of a lot longer than that, pretty much the entire time they've been 1 step away from extinction with every other story involving kids on school busses or extinction plots of the week. The actual details and decisions of Rosenbergs run were his to make and if you heard about what he wanted to do it was even worse (omega mutant children wars).

Anyway back on topic, I don't know that he'll stick the landing, but fixing the X-Men line involves addressing decimation which means addressing Wanda. In a few short panels he's had her showing remorse for what happened and trying to fix it. Her attempt was poorly thought out and failed hilariously but its comic books so that should be expected. Whats important is that 1) she's trying (this would have worked well for her as a follow up to CC) and 2) She's remorseful something she was not in UA.

She was remorseful and she was trying all the way back in Childrens Cruasade. Didn't make a difference then (because the x-writers didn't want it to), and it won't make a difference now again unless the X writers want it too.

If anything, the lesson learned from Hickmans story is that she can't "fix" it, and when she tries to she only makes it worse.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Wanda's actions removing the powers of millions of mutants, and then actively halting the creation of more mutants amounts to A) Castration, B) Forced Sterilization.

Even if she didn't say "kill all mutants", her actions took away the personhood, dignity, consent of millions of mutants around the Marvel Universe, many of whom didn't want to lose their powers. All of whom had done nothing to her and do not deserve to be the target of her vicarious rage and grief. The other action, mass sterilization of mutants, is analogous to genocide. It's an action aimed to extinguish an entire group of people, and a specific group of people at that...mutants. It stops mutants from reproducing. Including the surviving mutants who still have their powers. Mass sterilization is the end goal of many projects of genocide historically, including Nazi Germany.

About the only positive development with Wanda that I've come to embrace since House of M is the retcon that Magneto isn't her father and that Wanda and Pietro are no longer mutants. Obviously this was driven by chicanery on the part of Fox-Disney dustoff, but it's a positive development in the sense that the Decimation is no longer a case of "mutant-on-mutant violence". It was accidental and unwitting on the part of Marvel, but it's a positive move. Of course the fact that Wanda is Romani, historical victims of the Holocaust, and also carried out this action...is still icky in terms of optics.

There's no getting around the fact that Wanda's actions are terrible, it was bad and she should feel bad. I still think there's a way to deal with this and allow her to land on her feet however. At the end of the day this is comic books, Scarlet Witch using magic to change continuity is fairly removed from reality in terms of actions. SO it's only genocide by means of analogy. Even in the X-Men continuity, Wanda is ranked below the Sentinels, and Genosha is considered the worst crime in the history of mutantkind with the Decimation ranking a second. The Decimation can be undone and repaired, albeit the emotional trauma and collateral damage inflicted will remain for a long time. But Genosha itself can't be undone and yeah I know the Five are working to resurrect the dead of Genosha...but I think it's fair to expect that even the most heartened X-Fans should consider that too optimistic as an endgoal to be fulfilled on pages, especially since the emotions over the loss of Genosha is far greater than what Genosha occupied when it was active, in terms of continuity-real estate.