Wanda's “unforgivable” crime?!

[Huntsman Spider]

For whatever it's worth, I've always liked Wanda. She was easily my favorite Avenger for a LONG time. Her look was iconic, her powerset was fascinating, the fact that she created twin sons for her and Vision out of nothing but will, love and desperation was awesome! I was heartbroken when the twins turned out to be fragments of Master Pandemonium's soul (man...remember THAT guy...!?) and she lost them. I loved her connection to Magneto, and thus to my FAVORITE Marvel franchise, and found her pathos as a former villain seeking - and MORE than attaining - redemption (and a former abuse victim seeking stability and family, and finding that) to be compelling as Hell.

And then Disassembled/House of M came. At first, I was excited, because my favorite Avenger was THE star, the axis around whom the entire story revolved, and the X-Men were playing a big role in House of M! And then Disassembled. And then the wierd Genosha-centric Excalibur, reminding us how fresh and raw that wound was. And then House of M.

All I could think was, "Who the Hell IS this woman? She looked like Wanda, she dressed like Wanda, but...she had DEALT with the grief and loss of the twins...hadn't she? What the Hell was I reading!?"

And then..."No more mutants."

I LITERALLY threw the comic across the room. I was FURIOUS. Mutants had JUST lived through Genosha's devastation. RIGHT after they had finally established mutants as a legitimate culture, with it's own art and slang, and commerce. It was wild and wierd and there was suddenly SO MUCH to explore or do with mutants! There were enough of them that the old genocide tactics humans had tried for years couldn't be sustained. And then Cassandra Nova killed 16 million mutants in a single afternoon. And then Wanda depowered almost EVERY OTHER surviving mutant with three words...because she was mad at her dad...

As a gay teenager who found something in the X-Men's concept of found family and chosen communities and surviving and even thriving under horrific oppression and casual persecution...? It devastated me. Maybe that was a bit much, but...I was a closeted, EXTREMELY dramatic teenager, so...*shrug* Par for the course...

Anyway, long story short (too late!), I still love Wanda for the stories I enjoyed her in. And I still love everything I have ever loved about the X-Men. And I cannot WAIT until Wanda finally, fully owns up to what she did. And makes amends for it. And is fully, finally forgiven. But it CAN'T be just forgotten or swept under the rug or have excuses made for it. It was a horrific act in a series of them, committed by a badly written but still canonical woman. And it was just the final straw (or so I thought before the Terrigen Clouds, and Schism and the fall of Utopia, and Avengers vs. X-Men, and Guggenheim, and...) in a series of unconscionable acts against and entire established culture that had FINALLY risen above the persecution and gained respect on a global scale.

That's why she's the Boogieman, even though Cassandra Nova killed more mutants, and Apocalypse is an ancient madman with a massive death toll of his own and multiple cults dedicated to serving (or destroying) him. She was the last straw. She brutalized a people who were already still reeling from a devastating blow to their identity as a people. She FURTHER stripped mutants of their identity for no sin of their own. People died in AWFUL ways because of her. CHILDREN died because of her selfishness. She kicked a dog when it was down.

I'm more angry at editorial than I am at Wanda. But for her to get back to full hero, without this cloud hovering over her, she needs a true redemptive moment. I'm confident Hickman will deliver one, from how important she is to the world building he is doing.

That sums things up very well . . . and yeah, I'd blame editorial (and to a certain extent, ingrained attitudes and beliefs about women's emotional/mental stability and reliability amongst that editorial) sooner than I'd blame Wanda. The character of Wanda may be culpable in-universe, but in real life, as outlined by Revolutionary_Jack on multiple occasions, we know who (or what) is really to blame for this atrocious mess.

[Lucyinthesky]

If they were wanting Avengers fans to feel that way then LOL! Because from my perspective, it was just all ridiculous forced nonsense to generate $$ and I can understand that. At times comics are suffering. But the story could have been handled way better. The crescendo was them further botching the Phoenix Force. Like this wasn't already mess enough.

The Inhumans stuff smacked of stuff shirts wanting to strong arm Fox. But Inhumans were best being monarchy drama and not an allegory for oppressed or marginalized groups. I enjoyed a lot of Inhumans titles over the years, but lost interest once they started trying to force them into stories that didn't fit them.

My feelings exactly

Rachel should have played a bigger role on AvX, she managed to use the phoenix powers way better than Jean for years without losing control of herself, she should have been in charge of helping Hope and maybe add another reason besides Wolverine`s gruge with Scott to begin a confrontation between the Avengers and the X-men, AvX has been done better in previous stories without making both teams look silly.

I hope marvel is planning a new crossover between the X-men and the inhumans they actually have a lot of things in common, a future meeting between Krakoa and the Inhumans would be awesome and I hope it will be handled better without all the politics. Yes the Inhumans work best as a monarchy, that`s who they are.

[Journey]

im talking about what ricky wanted us to think and his clear intentions

Oh well he's a hack...

[GenericUsername]

My feelings exactly

Rachel should have played a bigger role on AvX, she managed to use the phoenix powers way better than Jean for years without losing control of herself, she should have been in charge of helping Hope and maybe add another reason besides Wolverine`s gruge with Scott to begin a confrontation between the Avengers and the X-men, AvX has been done better in previous stories without making both teams look silly.

I hope marvel is planning a new crossover between the X-men and the inhumans they actually have a lot of things in common, a future meeting between Krakoa and the Inhumans would be awesome and I hope it will be handled better without all the politics. Yes the Inhumans work best as a monarchy, that`s who they are.

Rachel should have been instrumental. But I guess it wouldn't have served the plot they wanted to force. That the Phoenix could not be controlled. Even though it had been.

[MaximoffTrash]

For whatever it's worth, I've always liked Wanda. She was easily my favorite Avenger for a LONG time. Her look was iconic, her powerset was fascinating, the fact that she created twin sons for her and Vision out of nothing but will, love and desperation was awesome! I was heartbroken when the twins turned out to be fragments of Master Pandemonium's soul (man...remember THAT guy...!?) and she lost them. I loved her connection to Magneto, and thus to my FAVORITE Marvel franchise, and found her pathos as a former villain seeking - and MORE than attaining - redemption (and a former abuse victim seeking stability and family, and finding that) to be compelling as Hell.

And then Disassembled/House of M came. At first, I was excited, because my favorite Avenger was THE star, the axis around whom the entire story revolved, and the X-Men were playing a big role in House of M! And then Disassembled. And then the wierd Genosha-centric Excalibur, reminding us how fresh and raw that wound was. And then House of M.

All I could think was, "Who the Hell IS this woman? She looked like Wanda, she dressed like Wanda, but...she had DEALT with the grief and loss of the twins...hadn't she? What the Hell was I reading!?"

And then..."No more mutants."

I LITERALLY threw the comic across the room. I was FURIOUS. Mutants had JUST lived through Genosha's devastation. RIGHT after they had finally established mutants as a legitimate culture, with it's own art and slang, and commerce. It was wild and wierd and there was suddenly SO MUCH to explore or do with mutants! There were enough of them that the old genocide tactics humans had tried for years couldn't be sustained. And then Cassandra Nova killed 16 million mutants in a single afternoon. And then Wanda depowered almost EVERY OTHER surviving mutant with three words...because she was mad at her dad...

As a gay teenager who found something in the X-Men's concept of found family and chosen communities and surviving and even thriving under horrific oppression and casual persecution...? It devastated me. Maybe that was a bit much, but...I was a closeted, EXTREMELY dramatic teenager, so...*shrug* Par for the course...

Anyway, long story short (too late!), I still love Wanda for the stories I enjoyed her in. And I still love everything I have ever loved about the X-Men. And I cannot WAIT until Wanda finally, fully owns up to what she did. And makes amends for it. And is fully, finally forgiven. But it CAN'T be just forgotten or swept under the rug or have excuses made for it. It was a horrific act in a series of them, committed by a badly written but still canonical woman. And it was just the final straw (or so I thought before the Terrigen Clouds, and Schism and the fall of Utopia, and Avengers vs. X-Men, and Guggenheim, and...) in a series of unconscionable acts against and entire established culture that had FINALLY risen above the persecution and gained respect on a global scale.

That's why she's the Boogieman, even though Cassandra Nova killed more mutants, and Apocalypse is an ancient madman with a massive death toll of his own and multiple cults dedicated to serving (or destroying) him. She was the last straw. She brutalized a people who were already still reeling from a devastating blow to their identity as a people. She FURTHER stripped mutants of their identity for no sin of their own. People died in AWFUL ways because of her. CHILDREN died because of her selfishness. She kicked a dog when it was down.

I'm more angry at editorial than I am at Wanda. But for her to get back to full hero, without this cloud hovering over her, she needs a true redemptive moment. I'm confident Hickman will deliver one, from how important she is to the world building he is doing.

Well, I am glad people still have hope for her, just another shot for redemption.
It's not like things can get any worse(or even if it gets worse, it won't be too much right?)
It's irritating and tiresome, that's for sure, I personally would just want to see more stories actually about her than a franchise that dragged her into the mud in the first place.
But if people need closure, then why not? If the writers actually cares, I just hope Hickman will be the last man trying to fix this shit. Get this over with or something.
Since I had like no interest in Wanda interacting with X-Men what so ever, they could just straight up ignore each other and I will be fine with that. I am more keen on giving Wanda new stories about herself, and informing the new fans about the pre-2004 Wanda(and also stop acting like HoM is some kind of great event for her.)

[MaximoffTrash]

I disagree Wanda came off like a pretentious know it all in UA, Rogue seemed more sympathetic to me she was clearly mourning. I found Wanda's writing incredibly inconsistent, 1 second she's like "fuck the X-Men, fuck the dream" then a second later taking shots for Rogue. Sis was all over the place.

I mean, didn't you notice that in 2004, she is like fuck/ignore Magneto before Bendis and then agreeing to give him what he wanted.
If anything she would probably pick Xavier's dream to come true, and allow Magneto to find peace in that world or something.
But nope, everyone plays house in HoM reality, and she clearly didn't give a fuck about Vision, Django and Maya, since they are nowhere to be found.

It's kinda too late to acknowledge that, the problem in the first place is continuity butchering and characterization inconsistancy.
She shouldn't care about those stuff that much, a lot of stuff she did under certain writers are like this weird assumption based on her most basic wiki page or something.

[MaximoffTrash]

From Chidren`s Crusade, AvX, Uncanny Avengers to the Inhuman push it seemed like marvel wanted everyone to think the X-men were the villains of the story or that they could not let matters drop and just being unreasonable for not reason, the thing is that once you have characters dying from a toxic gas while your narrative insists they are the villains it just end sounding tone deaf and readers being more sympatethic to the party unfairly being painted as evil. I am almost 100% sure the inhumans would have done better sales wise and with their storytelling if they were not so heavily pushed as replacements for the X-men on the MU.

I mean, I find it as way to save face, what will happen if they went full in making X-Men the unreasonable ones? They got fans, like a lot of them. Ditch the less popular ones is always the way to go.
So we always got this half-assed narrative. And I doubt X-fans will actually want Marvel editorial to make X-Men the unreasonable ones, and they probably will hate the other side even more.(You know, dragging them to the mud?)
Also I think Inhumans are indeed good without involving X-Men, but again even when the story involves X-Men, they aren't really some kind of replacement.

[MaximoffTrash]

If they were wanting Avengers fans to feel that way then LOL! Because from my perspective, it was just all ridiculous forced nonsense to generate $$ and I can understand that. At times comics are suffering. But the story could have been handled way better. The crescendo was them further botching the Phoenix Force. Like this wasn't already mess enough.

The Inhumans stuff smacked of stuff shirts wanting to strong arm Fox. But Inhumans were best being monarchy drama and not an allegory for oppressed or marginalized groups. I enjoyed a lot of Inhumans titles over the years, but lost interest once they started trying to force them into stories that didn't fit them.

Yeah, Inhumans are interesting when it's about running a country/goverment, post-Infinity also offers new topics like how to deal with growing number of their populations, global diplomacy etc.

[GenericUsername]

I mean, didn't you notice that in 2004, she is like fuck/ignore Magneto before Bendis and then agreeing to give him what he wanted.
If anything she would probably pick Xavier's dream to come true, and allow Magneto to find peace in that world or something.
But nope, everyone plays house in HoM reality, and she clearly didn't give a fuck about Vision, Django and Maya, since they are nowhere to be found.

It's kinda too late to acknowledge that, the problem in the first place is continuity butchering and characterization inconsistancy.
She shouldn't care about those stuff that much, a lot of stuff she did under certain writers are like this weird assumption based on her most basic wiki page or something.

Yep it's really weird that this world she created did not include people she actually cared about. Other than her brother.

[Havok83]

I mean, didn't you notice that in 2004, she is like fuck/ignore Magneto before Bendis and then agreeing to give him what he wanted.
If anything she would probably pick Xavier's dream to come true, and allow Magneto to find peace in that world or something.
But nope, everyone plays house in HoM reality, and she clearly didn't give a fuck about Vision, Django and Maya, since they are nowhere to be found.

It's kinda too late to acknowledge that, the problem in the first place is continuity butchering and characterization inconsistancy.
She shouldn't care about those stuff that much, a lot of stuff she did under certain writers are like this weird assumption based on her most basic wiki page or something.

Wanda was insane. I wouldnt try to find anything rational about her actions considering her mental state during that story and what led up to it

[GenericUsername]

Wanda was insane. I wouldnt try to find anything rational about her actions considering her mental state during that story and what led up to it

Yeah but even subconsciously, people who were in her life would be more present in her mind. It's just one of those convenient plot things that people in that world were the exact ones they had stories for. It's not really because that's the world Wanda would create.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Wanda was insane. I wouldnt try to find anything rational about her actions considering her mental state during that story and what led up to it

Hm. Is it a good thing to punish “insane” people, who aren’t really aware of what they are doing?

[Journey]

I mean, didn't you notice that in 2004, she is like fuck/ignore Magneto before Bendis and then agreeing to give him what he wanted.
If anything she would probably pick Xavier's dream to come true, and allow Magneto to find peace in that world or something.
But nope, everyone plays house in HoM reality, and she clearly didn't give a fuck about Vision, Django and Maya, since they are nowhere to be found.

It's kinda too late to acknowledge that, the problem in the first place is continuity butchering and characterization inconsistancy.
She shouldn't care about those stuff that much, a lot of stuff she did under certain writers are like this weird assumption based on her most basic wiki page or something.

I was between the ages of 5-6 in 2004 so no I didn't notice that.

[Iron Maiden]

Hm. Is it a good thing to punish “insane” people, who aren’t really aware of what they are doing?

That's a good point. The RW has the NGRI plea option - Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity. And it would apply in Wanda's case because this plea it considers the accused state of mind when the crime wa committed.

[Havok83]

The fact that Wanda wasnt held accountable for the crimes she committed in Disassembled, led her to commit even bigger ones in HOM. She should have been apprehended instead of free to just be taken away by Magneto