Wanda's “unforgivable” crime?!

[Ferro]

There were x-fans that wanted X-Men in Avengers movies and games though, lol.

im not one of those, so don't mind me I don't wantt any x-men in that disastruous grind fest

[Steel Inquisitor]

Jean Grey blames herself and to this day takes full ownership of what she did even though it technically wasnt her. She doesnt blame Emma Frost, Mastermind, the Phoenix Force or any mental breakdown. She owes her sh-t

Jena Grey had a strong writer protecting her and people willing to accept her under very similar conditions. Absolutely no-one is suggesting the writers were making excuses for her back then like Wanda does now. But Wanda's made several attempts to fix her mistakes over M-Day what separates her from Jean is that Marvel let Jean heal and the universe to move on. Jean is not defined today by the Phoenix like M-Day has been for Wanda. It's not the X-men stopped trying to protect her once they heard about the genocide Phoenix did, they fought the Imperial Guard for her. Jean's not vanishing form comics for years and constantly being insulted and defined by that genocide. Even the Phoenix itself has been retconned into a force for good, despite the fact it's a world destroying cosmic deity like Galactus.

Except Emma Frost and Master mind should be blamed since their actins made the dark Phoenix possible, and endangered the world for their twisted sexual and power fantasies. Jean was just a means to an end for them in that time period, when was the last time Emma felt guilty over that? Jean had an excuse of being possessed by a cosmic deity, Emma was just an amoral sociopath. Jean didn't have a mental breakdown, Wanda did. It's canon how Wanda has mental illnesses, this was a huge thing in the Avengers books before House of M, the Life Force was just added to it. When someone has a mental breakdown they need help and support, not to be attacked by their friends and allies because Xavier and Dr. Strange are bad therapists. Wanda has owned up to that, but parts ion the X-fandom only see her as evil incarnate for M-Day she could reverse M-day completely it won't do anything. Even her various attempts at trying, despite being shut down by the X-men and not being allowed to make amends in Empire do nothing to salvage her.

No, Wanda did not try to undo M-Day. The mutants on Genosha had nothing to do with M-Day. Those mutants were dead before M-Day happened and therefore were not impacted by her actions when they were alive. Her actions in Empyre were stupid and made no sense. The problem she created in HOM would have still remained even if her spell worked and the Genoshans didnt return as zombies

Ok, but doing that was to make up for M-Day something she not allowed to do since editorial won't allow her to move on. Sure they made sense, she wanted to do something to help mutant kind as a form of redemption. Wasn't M-Day fixed with the Phoenix in AvX? Decimation's over.

[Lucyinthesky]

Ahhhj, very touching but nope, 15 years and we got half-assed redemptions. Why should she get dragged down even furthur? All this touchy speech about her owning up ultimately means acknowledging the butchering of her character is legit.
Also she is more of a plot device anyway, she never got the focus so why should I care.

To be fair a redemption arc doesn´t mean the character gets dragged down, a redemption arc looks to give the character development and self awarness of the situation and a personal storyline towards correcting their mistake, it´s supposed to help the character not drag them down and this is precisely what marvel has been denying Wanda.

This is the same reason why Jean was killed off on the original Dark Phoenix Saga, back then marvel cared more about the storyteling than about the schock of the event. The main editor at the time said "Phoenix must die" it became the main title for the book in which Jean dies, Claremont wanted to do a story of her being punished by taking her powers away and her earning redemption but the editors thought that was still not enough to give her character a redemption and be able to keep using her, so they went with a story of her dying and later they showed the retcon of her not being phoenix, or at least, not completely phoenix but still feeling remorseful because "a part of her" still did it. This helped to bring her back into the books without the baggage of dark phoenix. Because when in storytelling, there must be some kind of pay off and consequences and actions made by heros are of course seen in a harder way if the writer wants to keep writing them as a hero.

So many years after the fact, I don´t think Wanda dying would have a big impact but her feeling openly remorseful and trying to make amends works better for her instead of the use of Dr Doom or the life force as an excuse, so I would say a trial and a time expend with her helping the depowered mutants would be ok for her redemption arc. I think Hickman did well writing her as remorseful person trying to do good instead of a flippand and arrogant person who thinks they should not be judget , like she was on Uncanny Avengers, I don´t think Bendis or Hickman see her as a real villain, not even because of her conection with magneto, because it´s clear they see magneto as a tragic character. Wanda in HoM IS a tragic character, the problem is that marvel didn´t care enough to give her a story to complete her arc so she could come back and that´s still what´s missing.

I think marvel owns Wanda´s character a resolution and closure for this story if they want to keep using her for her MCU appareances and it would work better for her, especially if marvel stopped trying to put the blame on everybody else, redemption is not about who do you blame, redemption is about owing up your personal mistakes and do actions towards making up for them, marvel needs to remember that, especially when they use their heroic characters to do horrific things and then just act as if that didn´t happen.That´s not what heros are supposed to do.

[GenericUsername]

im not one of those, so don't mind me I don't wantt any x-men in that disastruous grind fest

What, you don't want to fall through an elevator and completely reset all progress?

[GenericUsername]

I think marvel owns Wanda´s character a resolution and closure for this story if they want to keep using her for her MCU appareances.

See I don't think Marvel sees it like this at all. And I think these decisions are independent of what is going on in the movies. I don't think Wanda's current state in comics bothers them at all. And I don't think they have a lot of care for her. Which could be why they don't even bother to get her costume right from issue to issue.

[Lucyinthesky]

See I don't think Marvel sees it like this at all. And I think these decisions are independent of what is going on in the movies. I don't think Wanda's current state in comics bothers them at all. And I don't think they have a lot of care for her. Which could be why they don't even bother to get her costume right from issue to issue.

I am not saying it should bother them but I think Wanda needs a complete arc to fully close HoM events. If they don´t do that it will be something that will keep dragging the character on.

[OopsIdiditagain]

well, it was addressed, but it wasn't fixed. In avx wanda allowed mutants to be born, but the ones who had their powers gone were still powerless.
And children's crusade went and made her more culpable. Every single time they touch this story they make it worse and worse.

Though you're still correct about the whole villains pardoned on krakoa. Frankly i see it as propaganda. Paint Wanda as the bad guy supreme while you allow worse people under your wing. A political move to make it seem necessary so while the children cry at the mere mention of Wanda, apocalypse can kill them brutally in gladiatorial combat to be resurrected with their powers.



demon bear possession i think

Possession must be the go to for writers when they want to undo character assassinations or changing status quo that happened before.

[Lucyinthesky]

I don´t expect Apocalypse or Sinister et all to feel sorry for their actions, neither do the X-men but I expect Wanda, a hero or Reed, a hero, feeling bad for their bad actions and that´s really not much to ask.

[GenericUsername]

I am not saying it should bother them but I think Wanda needs a complete arc to fully close HoM events. If they don´t do that it will be something that will keep dragging the character on.

Yeah, just not gonna expect that. I've learned to temper expectations over the years.

[Havok83]

Ok, but doing that was to make up for M-Day something she not allowed to do since editorial won't allow her to move on. Sure they made sense, she wanted to do something to help mutant kind as a form of redemption. Wasn't M-Day fixed with the Phoenix in AvX? Decimation's over.

There was such a huge disconnect though. If she wanted to make up for what she did in M-Day, then she should have resurrected the mutants that were killed directly and indirectly by her spell. Genosha had absolutely nothing to do with that

What she did, did not help mutantkind. Genosha was Cassandra Nova's mess and Krakoa was already resolving that. Genoshan mutants were already being resurrected and intergrated back into society. Wadna mass-resurrecting 16 million mutants to a pile of rubble was so selfish ill thought out on her part. She had absolutely zero plan with what to do with them and was essentially dooming them all over again

AVX did not fix M-Day. The mutants killed by Wanda are still dead and many depowered are still depowered. Krakoa is making its way at undoing Wanda's damage so she really isnt needed

[Lucyinthesky]

Yeah, just not gonna expect that. I've learned to temper expectations over the years.

True still I have some hope for darkhold

[Steel Inquisitor]

There was such a huge disconnect though. If she wanted to make up for what she did in M-Day, then she should have resurrected the mutants that were killed directly and indirectly by her spell. Genosha had absolutely nothing to do with that

Except a large part of Krakoa boosting their numbers is resurrecting Genoshan mutants as if they're entitled to that population of mutants just because they are mutants. Wanda's just helping get the mutant population back on track like they're doing. That'd buy a lot of goodwill with the mutant community if she succeeded. The fact she didn't didn't make her wrong, Krakoa has as much right to those mutants resurrection as she does and she's not engaged in a not so secret mutant industrial complex.

What she did, did not help mutantkind. Genosha was Cassandra Nova's mess and Krakoa was already resolving that. Genoshan mutants were already being resurrected and intergrated back into society. Wadna mass-resurrecting 16 million mutants to a pile of rubble was so selfish ill thought out on her part. She had absolutely zero plan with what to do with them and was essentially dooming them all over again

How is resurrecting mutants selfish on her part? She gains nothing for it other than good will. Redemption requires acts to heal wounds, if this had worked this'd be a great move with progress on that. Wanda's plan wasn't to make an uncontrollable army of zombies to attack people, she's not Selene. Before M-Day she was a very skilled sorceress in her own right, but Marvel insists on making her incompetent and her mistakes add to M-Day making it harder for her to reform. That sort of problem is outside of her control, she can't force Marvel to write her properly. A million strong mutants will be fine, they're not a bunch of powerless humans stuck in the middle of a desert. 16 millions mutants would have numerous mutants with powers to find safety and reach the outside world. Wanda's not supposed to be a person who improvises, that's her brother Quicksilver. She's the smart one. Once again, bad writing.

AVX did not fix M-Day. The mutants killed by Wanda are still dead and many depowered are still depowered. Krakoa is making its way at undoing Wanda's damage so she really isnt needed

So the X-men were wasting their time trying to get the Phoenix to reignite mutants being able to have children? Krakao is doing that with a very shady agenda, Wanda has no strings attached. And if she had been doing nothing she'd still get heat for being apathetic about mutants and the damage she caused, she can't win. The writers won't let her.

[XPac]

There was such a huge disconnect though. If she wanted to make up for what she did in M-Day, then she should have resurrected the mutants that were killed directly and indirectly by her spell. Genosha had absolutely nothing to do with that

What she did, did not help mutantkind. Genosha was Cassandra Nova's mess and Krakoa was already resolving that. Genoshan mutants were already being resurrected and intergrated back into society. Wadna mass-resurrecting 16 million mutants to a pile of rubble was so selfish ill thought out on her part. She had absolutely zero plan with what to do with them and was essentially dooming them all over again

AVX did not fix M-Day. The mutants killed by Wanda are still dead and many depowered are still depowered. Krakoa is making its way at undoing Wanda's damage so she really isnt needed

AvX fixed M Day in the large sense. It didn't restore anyone who died or was depowered, but it DID prevent the extinction of the mutant race. So arguably it resolved the bigger problem.

[Havok83]

Except a large part of Krakoa boosting their numbers is resurrecting Genoshan mutants as if they're entitled to that population of mutants just because they are mutants. Wanda's just helping get the mutant population back on track like they're doing. That'd buy a lot of goodwill with the mutant community if she succeeded. The fact she didn't didn't make her wrong, Krakoa has as much right to those mutants resurrection as she does and she's not engaged in a not so secret mutant industrial complex.

Krakoa is already doing that. There are Genoshan mutants on the island and Wanda would have created a huge mess by unleashing duplicates. She did not consult with anyone directly involved which was a huge oversight on her part. You ignored the point I made. If Wanda wanted atonement for her sins, then she should have started with bringing back those she killed, not Genoshans. Next, she probably should have went to those killed indirectly bc of M-day. You are ignoring the fact that she was not dealing with the damage that she actually did which brings me to my next point.

How is resurrecting mutants selfish on her part? She gains nothing for it other than good will. Redemption requires acts to heal wounds, if this had worked this'd be a great move with progress on that. Wanda's plan wasn't to make an uncontrollable army of zombies to attack people, she's not Selene. Before M-Day she was a very skilled sorceress in her own right, but Marvel insists on making her incompetent and her mistakes add to M-Day making it harder for her to reform. That sort of problem is outside of her control, she can't force Marvel to write her properly. A million strong mutants will be fine, they're not a bunch of powerless humans stuck in the middle of a desert. 16 millions mutants would have numerous mutants with powers to find safety and reach the outside world. Wanda's not supposed to be a person who improvises, that's her brother Quicksilver. She's the smart one. Once again, bad writing.

So the X-men were wasting their time trying to get the Phoenix to reignite mutants being able to have children? Krakao is doing that with a very shady agenda, Wanda has no strings attached. And if she had been doing nothing she'd still get heat for being apathetic about mutants and the damage she caused, she can't win. The writers won't let her.

Is selfish bc it was about easing her guilt. It had nothing to do with helping the mutants she killed or depowered as Genoshans were not her victims. Its truly spitting in the face of her victims by dealing with an unrelated massacre and acting like thats redemption for the actual genocide she commited. If someone paralyzes me but goes and gives someone I dont know, a pill that fixes their paralysis while doing nothing for me, how is that redemption for how they screwed over my life? Those who's loved ones are dead bc of Wanda get nothing out of her fixing Nova's mess.

Genosha is pile of rubble. She had ZERO plan for these mutants. There is no society for there for them. She said nothing about rebuilding Genosha (which should have been done before they were brought back), nor therapy to deal with the trauma of dying and coming back. Being a large concentrated body of mutants on an island with no protection or security, left them highly vulnerable to those that are still out to kill mutants. Whatever she was in the past, her plan was ill thought and reeked of stupidity. She should have told Xavier about what she was doing bc dealing with all those mutants would have been his mess to clean up. She wasnt going to take care of them. She didnt have the bandwith or resources. Krakoa in its current state wouldnt have been able to accomodate an incoming population that which was 20 times its size.

No it wasnt a waste of time. It didnt help the people that Wanda screwed over directly with her spell.

[Iron Maiden]

im not one of those, so don't mind me I don't wantt any x-men in that disastruous grind fest

Oh well, have to disagree with you on the "disastrous grind fest". The Fox's X-men movies should be so "disastrous". Can you say "Dark Phoenix"?....now that's disastrous