Love is for souls, not bodies.
My biggest problem with Mags being her dad is that they are handled by different offices. So nothing will ever truly get developed there. People seem to just like the idea of them being related. Because he never raised her and had very little presence afterward. And most of their favorite interactions to mention are Darker than Scarlet and HoM. Two stories that just trashed Wanda. It wasn't even something that resulted in development for Wanda. They just became reasons why people don't like her.
It is why I don't think her being a mutant or related to Mags ever helped her.
Love is for souls, not bodies.
The sliding timescale is such a problem. It's difficult to believe that everything in 80 years of comics is stuffed in 14 or 15 years. For a character like Wanda who wasn't even present that much, there's more than a few month or years of story. Much more for those that stuck around while she was gone.
So under any scrutiny, it doesn't hold up.
Also, we have no idea what Hickman is doing yet. At most he's turning her into the idiot woman that always messes up and didn't have years of tutelage by Agatha Harkness. Which is both an insult to Wanda and to Agatha. We also don't know when this takes place or even if it's the same Wanda. Could be a Doombot, again.
Last edited by GenericUsername; 08-24-2020 at 09:42 AM.
Love is for souls, not bodies.
It was the issue where Bendis brought Vision back, and of course - of course - She-Hulk said not to blame Wanda because she couldn't help being crazy because she was raised by Magneto.
(I know she wasn't raised by Magneto, you know she wasn't raised by Magneto, and probably Bendis does too and doesn't care. The more objectionable thing to me is how he consistently portrayed her as someone who was always destined to snap and turn evil. That's not the character as she was portrayed for the 40 years before he got her.)
This thread is about Wanda, my dude, not Sinister. This is a forum and not a court of law but the principle's the same. The one's in the docket is on the trial and has to be prosecuted and defended based on what they do. The X-Men's sketchy alliances on Krakoa is discussed and commented on separately but by itself that wouldn't negate or counter the accusations against Wanda.
The Nuremberg trials and the charges against Nazi war criminals aren't undone because the people bringing the charges are Jim Crow and Segregated USA, Stalinist USSR, and the British Empire on its last legs. I am not saying Wanda is morally the same as Nazism but her actions are of large scale and grave consequences and the Nazis did practice and tried to implement mass sterilization.
And as Doctor Strange told Wanda, Hank has never been able to do a great good to undo the harm he has done. None of the redemptive Hank moments are as big as the scenes where he slapped Janet. The most important thing Hank did was create Ultron and that resulted in the destruction of Slorenia and the slaughter of every man, woman and child in that nation.Hank remains hero after all that, numerous writers try to rehabilitate him and try to make him not look evil or stupid.
Fact is, he did it. Someone with his undiagnosed mental issues had no business using his intellect to create AI...when a very unstable genius plays with toys, is it a surprise that the toy turns out to be a murderbot. He learned it from watching you, Dad.He didn't create Ultron to be evil,
Except she is. She's not a mutant anymore, Magneto's not her Dad. And even then most of her history is tied to the Avengers far more than X-Men and brotherhood.Except not every mutant should feel like this, especially those who know her. She's not a stranger to that community.
Agreed.
I don't know why this is a surprise for some posters. But it's not simply that a story is bad. It becomes worse if it's tied to continuity and publication stuff. It's why OMD is this elephant in the room for Spider-Man. House-of-M is like OMD. For X-Men fans it marked the point where Marvel officially tried to kneecap it away from the spotlight in favor of the Avengers. X-Men editors like Jordan White and others have all admitted that the X-Men continuity has been in a low-end since HoM.The idea that this must be addressed, instead of retconned or dismissed, is just that the moment had a lot of impact on the X-Men books going forward, and there's this idea that she must be punished for things that happened in books she didn't appear in, based on a story that mis-characterized her as an omnipotent self-hating mutant.
So this isn't a bad story that can be simply swept under the rug. It needs to be addressed.
Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 08-24-2020 at 10:05 AM.
Agreed but them's the breaks.
I am sure Hickman has some idea and concept that will allow Wanda to land on her feet.Also, we have no idea what Hickman is doing yet. At most he's turning her into the idiot woman that always messes up and didn't have years of tutelage by Agatha Harkness. Which is both an insult to Wanda and to Agatha. We also don't know when this takes place or even if it's the same Wanda. Could be a Doombot, again.
But, I mean, OMD was swept under the rug. The comic went on, often selling very well, so most comic-buyers and most writers didn't see Spider-Man as the kind of guy who would sell his marriage to the devil. Some readers feel that the story shattered their interest in Spider-Man, and I can definitely understand feeling that way, but writers don't feel like they have to keep bringing it up all the time.
But Spider-Man is a major flagship character, so he's protected from the worst things the writers make him do. Wanda rarely appears unless someone is dredging up House of M. But I don't honestly think "Doom did it or whatever, let's move on" would be that much different from "His marriage never happened because he sold it to Satan, whatever, let's move on."
No it wasn't.
Except OMD is brought up all the time in many Spider-Man stories and storylines. Spider-Man/Deadpool addressed it constantly and many writers in the main continuity kept addressing it and the current Spider-Man run also addresses it.The comic went on, often selling very well, so most comic-buyers and most writers didn't see Spider-Man as the kind of guy who would sell his marriage to the devil. Some readers feel that the story shattered their interest in Spider-Man, and I can definitely understand feeling that way, but writers don't feel like they have to keep bringing it up all the time.
A lot of Spider-Man stories since OMD is OMD-baiting in promotion or easter eggs. It's not by any means a story that was swept under the rug.
It's the most important Spider-Man story in the 616 continuity in the last 20 years and no story after it has matched it.
Except Doom's not some generic villain. He's a major and popular character and him being tied to the X-Men corner weakens both titles especially for the sake of a character who as you say was minor otherwise.Wanda rarely appears unless someone is dredging up House of M. But I don't honestly think "Doom did it or whatever, let's move on" would be that much different from "His marriage never happened because he sold it to Satan, whatever, let's move on."
House of M is the biggest story Scarlet Witch was ever part of and the most consequential action she did in the publication history. So it can't leave her.
I'm surprised that Spider-Man is forgiven for some of the same things others never were able to survive. He slapped Mary Jane but wasn't as branded by that action as Hank was. Even the writer of the Avengers story Jim Shooter said that the slap was not his intention for that scene and the artist overplayed it. It all mushroomed from there
In that story (issue 213, I think), there is a scene in which Hank is supposed to have accidentally struck Jan while throwing his hands up in despair and frustration—making a sort of “get away from me” gesture while not looking at her. Bob Hall, who had been taught by John Buscema to always go for the most extreme action, turned that into a right cross! There was no time to have it redrawn, which, to this day has caused the tragic story of Hank Pym to be known as the “wife-beater” story.
When that issue came out, Bill Sienkiewicz came to me upset that I hadn’t asked him to draw it! He saw the intent right through Hall’s mistake, and was moved enough by the story to wish he’d had the chance to do it properly.