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  1. #16
    Always Rakzo
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    Rebirth itself didn't fail. It was the revitalization that DC needed.

    The problems started when it ended with Johns stepping down.

  2. #17
    Incredible Member Thomas Crown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    Second, it's quite obvious Didio hated, hated, hated (did I say hate?) the very notion of REBIRTH. (...) he has openly called out any success that REBIRTH experienced as strictly nostalgia based
    And he was absolutely right. DC's biggest mistake has always been pandering too much to the nostalgic fans that are just waiting for the next excuse to throw a tantrum and give up.
    "Longtime fans will read the book and bitch about it NO MATTER WHAT."

    - Grant Morrison

  3. #18
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    I think a big problem was that Dooms Day Clock was it's own mini series.

    They should have used the main Justice League Title to explore what was behind rebirth (maybe in coordination with Titans).

    And the Three Jokers stuff should have also been followed up in the main Batman book and not ignored so long that it is now basically any else world story.

  4. #19
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    Maybe before discussing whether it was a failure or not we should understand what the purpose of Rebirth was, and whether they reached it.
    If they wanted it to be a new, well-established continuity on which they could build a new DCU it's obvious that they failed. I doubt that it was their purpose though.
    I see Rebirth mostly as an emergency plan which they had to put into motion very quickly because sales were hemorrhaging after DCYou, and they decided that their target was mainly old readers. In that regard, they succeeded, but as a plan it wasn't very well-thought. A lot of stuff, like Oz, was clearly made up along the way.
    So I'd say that the problems - not the failure - of Rebirth are exactly the same ones of New52 and maybe even 5G, or even whatever will replace 5G in some months. A potentially interesting project, but no long-time plans, too much improvisation and no attention to details.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    You must be new to DC. Ever since 1986, they've never stopped. The United States of America will come together in harmony before DC comics gets their **** together. Even the periods they're successful, they'll still muck around with continuity because they can't help themselves.

    (I know you're not new, I'm just messing with ya.)

    The company will shutter and three former editors will shamble into an empty office and start discussing who came first this time, Bruce or Clark, and how they can put together a Crisis to usher in the change.
    No, no, I am relatively new. I got the impression that the Post Crisis reboot was cleaner, at least until I found out that Dick retained most of his history, Zero Hour happened, and then they started doing Year One with other characters 10-20 year after the reboot.

    I get the feeling that if I'm older I would've tolerated it more

    Some older fans have told me that the reason they stick around is like a trap. They got too attached, they want to see something better, then they start justifying.

    New 52 I got in pretty excited, but it shows its crack by 3 issues and the more obvious inconsistency by the first trade, but I was still in because I can still justify it until... around Forever Evil. I think that's when it started to really break. The number of books I picked up already dwindled though.

    By the time I hit Rebirth I was like "screw this" when I saw Wonder Woman Truth and Lies and it got worse with Superman Reborn
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 08-25-2020 at 06:56 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Rebirth itself didn't fail. It was the revitalization that DC needed.

    The problems started when it ended with Johns stepping down.
    This is closest to the right answer. The OP is too filled with biased takes to bother discussion.

    Rebirth was good. Most of the books since have been good. Brining back Pre-FP was never happening, and it would be a disaster if they did. Marvel stomps all over continuity. Immortal Hulk, Venom, Thor, X-Men, Avengers: are all saying "I don't care about the great stories already written, this is our take". The Marvel U does not resemble the Marvel U of even 10 years ago.

    The problem with DC is, or was, marketing. They cannot play the market game Marvel is, but Marvel is playing a losing game, trying to get the best seat in a burning theatre by buying out all the seats. DC is not on the brink of collapse or failure, the direct market is just stagnated and that has nothing to do with Rebirth.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    Maybe before discussing whether it was a failure or not we should understand what the purpose of Rebirth was, and whether they reached it.
    If they wanted it to be a new, well-established continuity on which they could build a new DCU it's obvious that they failed. I doubt that it was their purpose though.
    They wanted to boost sales temporarily. Just like all the reboots/relaunches before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    A potentially interesting project, but no long-time plans, too much improvisation and no attention to details.
    That's all of DC's reboots/relaunches in a nutshell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    No, no, I am relatively new. I got the impression that the Post Crisis reboot was cleaner, at least until I found out that Dick retained most of his history, Zero Hour happened, and then they started doing Year One with other characters 10-20 year after the reboot.

    I get the feeling that if I'm older I would've tolerated it more

    Some older fans have told me that the reason they stick around is like a trap. They got too attached, they want to see something better, then they start justifying.

    ...
    That's a myth; none of the aftermaths were cleaner. All the reboots/relaunches left hot messes.

    and yeah, it feels like a trap.

  8. #23
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    how did rebirth fail?

    doomsday clock being delayed an entire year was a big one but there was also tons of little stuff too.
    letting GM come in and basically ignore everything in GL continuity so he could write a confusing mess
    Tom King's fakeout wedding and destruction of nightwing. Not to mention his character assasination of Booster in that stupid gift story.
    Herois in Crisis....seriously screw that book
    Bendis destroying the superman series that had finally become the most interesting it had been in a long time. then giving him way to many books in the dcu.
    removing Dan Abnett from Aquaman, he was doing great stuff. replacing him with KSD who cant write a good story to save her life.
    removing Tynion from Detective because they didnt want Tec to be a team book anymore
    having no real plan for Wonder woman who keeps getting passed between creative teams far to quickly, she's not been stable since Azarello.

    i stopped reading floppies around november 2019-january 2020 so i'm sure there's more.

    the only good thing still going from rebirth is Williamsons flash which i'm catching up on in trade now.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    Yes.

    That's the same reason all of DC's reboots/relaunches failed.

    These events were cash-grabs... and not visions for the future.

    Their approach was always half-assed:

    • They'd reset Superman to day 1...but Batman would still have 5 Robins and 3 Batgirls.
    • The Justice League would unite today...but the Titans formed years ago.
    • The Flash would start over...but Green Lantern didn't (and all the rainbow Lantern Corps already exist).


    Then everyone was scratching their heads about what stories still exist and which were erased.

    DC didn't care about continuity. They'd gotten their sales boost.
    Agree with every word - perfectly said.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Crown View Post
    And he was absolutely right. DC's biggest mistake has always been pandering too much to the nostalgic fans that are just waiting for the next excuse to throw a tantrum and give up.
    By DiDio's own admission DC was failing to get new readers interested in the New 52 stuff and they were just reading older stories.

  11. #26
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    Instead of fixing what needed to fixed and progressing, Rebirth was mostly stagnant. There were a few good stories, but most of the stuff were rehashes or storylines nobody wanted(see Heroes In Crisis).

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Rebirth didn’t fail.

    Just like any era, some books were meh and some were good.

    The comics aren’t spiraling down for the last 20 years, lol. You are going to tell me that as a percentage, 1988 books were better? Or 1976? Or 1995?

  13. #28
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    DC's comic sales have remained strong all through 2019 and much of 2020, I thought. The upheaval and restructuring in their organization might be the result of other factors.

  14. #29
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    By DiDio's own admission DC was failing to get new readers interested in the New 52 stuff and they were just reading older stories.
    I think i would be one of those guys. I get bored easily.

  15. #30
    BANNED Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I think it was New52 that really set the ball rolling
    It sure did. I don't know, DC main characters are always going to be my little favorite ones cause of my history as a reader, but since 2011 it sure has been a rough, rough ride.

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