Rating and thoughts on Flash Rebirth (2009)

[Lightning Rider]

and 7 issues ago isn’t considered ‘recent’? That’s only 4 months ago

I mean, it's this year. The retcon was made a decade ago, and here it is, still rearing its ugly head in 2020.

And especially considering this...

I don't know how you can say that they don't keep bringing up Barry's dead mother as a plot point when, in this week's Flash, Thawne and the Rogues tried to DIG his mother's corpse out of her grave!

...yikes.

[Dboi2001]

I mean, it's this year. The retcon was made a decade ago, and here it is, still rearing its ugly head in 2020.

And especially considering this...



...yikes.

What Im getting at is the majority of Williamson's run he doesn't really focus on it. Even in that issue you showed Barry's mom dying is not the main point of it. Barry was trying to find Thawne to get him to teach how to imprison Paradox and Barry stops at Thawne killing his mom where he hears his mom dying, but that is it. The rest is about Flash trying to get Thawne to tell him how to imprison Paradox

[HAN9000]

See, that's why I find Barry fans annoying. Every time Barry gets questioned or criticized they will say "but Hal...".

[married guy]

What Im getting at is the majority of Williamson's run he doesn't really focus on it. Even in that issue you showed Barry's mom dying is not the main point of it. Barry was trying to find Thawne to get him to teach how to imprison Paradox and Barry stops at Thawne killing his mom where he hears his mom dying, but that is it. The rest is about Flash trying to get Thawne to tell him how to imprison Paradox

Which could have been told WITHOUT bringing up the death of Barry's mum AGAIN.
It's another shitty retcon that keeps being force fed to readers.

[Dr. Ellingham]

It's another shitty retcon that keeps being force fed to readers.

Except that it's a foundation of the Flash TV series, and made for a great setup for that show. And too, a pretty good comic mini-series as well (Flashpoint).

Only point being - it works really well where it's been used, and audiences - inside but particularly outside of comic fans - are totally into the whole time-travel ruination angle. It's the most important Flash development since...at least the Speed Force. It's bedrock, baby!

[Dr. Ellingham]

As for the mini-series in total, it's more uninspired than anything.

I do grasp why they made it. But clearly, the story Geoff Johns wanted to tell was Flashpoint, and concocted this mini-series (out of the ashes of Green Lantern Rebirth) to lead up to it. But there are no stakes, really. I mean...Barry Allen's Rebirth actually happens in Final Crisis. How meaningful is Rebirth as a result? Not very. It's kinda dull, especially if you've read GL Rebirth.

I also don't like the notion of setting up yet another "theme" team, this time made up of heroic speedsters against a team of villain speedsters. I get that Johns didn't want Wally to go away, and wanted him to appear somewhere a la Kyle Rayner & Guy Gardner in GLC. But even then - all the setup for that? Wasted.

I guess for a new fan, Rebirth might be a nice primer for Flashpoint, which was a far superior story.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Maybe I’m in the minority (probably not because Hollywood loves it), but I actually like the mom retcon. She wasn’t important in Flash’s story and it gives him some drive besides the generic “normal dude” who becomes the Flash. And the fact that it’s a villain who time traveled as a result of his Flash makes it all the more tragic. Also because it involves time travel you can accept prior stories as canon. It’s more of a Jason Todd than Uncle Ben

[Doctor Know]

I recently reread Johns' Flash run before the New 52 reset everything. Flash Rebirth was the worst of the bunch. His Brightest Day Flash run was the best. Then Flashpoint and Road to Flashpoint being in the middle. There's just not a lot to Rebirth besides Johns making things up to make Barry the center of the Flash universe. The sub-plot with Thawne and the negative speed force is dumb. Explaining how Barry came back to life thanks to Thawne's meddling was also mega corny. Killing Barry's mom works in the context of the Flashpoint story itself. But here in Rebirth, it's just a thing to make us despise Thawne. Seriously, Eobard. Get a life.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Maybe I’m in the minority (probably not because Hollywood loves it), but I actually like the mom retcon. She wasn’t important in Flash’s story and it gives him some drive besides the generic “normal dude” who becomes the Flash. And the fact that it’s a villain who time traveled as a result of his Flash makes it all the more tragic.

Well, obviously you're not in the minority - several of us old readers like it, and anyone that's been introduced to Flash comics, or the TV show over the past decade get it too.

It reinforces so many of the key themes of the Flash - time travel / changing the past, Thawne's malevolence, and Barry's inherent heroism.

To me it's the second-most important story idea Johns introduced to the Flash, after his Rogues revival period.

[married guy]

Well, obviously you're not in the minority - several of us old readers like it, and anyone that's been introduced to Flash comics, or the TV show over the past decade get it too.

It reinforces so many of the key themes of the Flash - time travel / changing the past, Thawne's malevolence, and Barry's inherent heroism.

To me it's the second-most important story idea Johns introduced to the Flash, after his Rogues revival period.

See, I'm of the opinion that fridging Barry's mum to motivate him to heroism takes away an important piece of his personality. He became the Flash because he felt it was the right thing to do.
He was already a cop, and his powers gave him another avenue to help people. Barry was a minority as he had a perfectly normal mum and dad.
The retcon of Barry being the generator of the Speed Force effectively made every other speedster lesser.
Thawne generating a negative speed force was equally awful.
While I can perfectly understand wanting to push Barry front & centre, Geoff pretty much threw the baby out with the bathwater.

I actually thought Geoff Johns' original run on the Flash with Wally was INFINITELY superior to everything he wrote headlining Barry.

[Hol]

I actually thought Geoff Johns' original run on the Flash with Wally was INFINITELY superior to everything he wrote headlining Barry.

I couldn't agree more. It is like two different guys wrote those books.

[Lightning Rider]

I couldn't agree more. It is like two different guys wrote those books.

Definitely. I mean, isn't the Flash not about tragedy? Or did Johns basically convert to Hunter Zolomon's villainous philosophy?

[Lightning Rider]

Except that it's a foundation of the Flash TV series, and made for a great setup for that show. And too, a pretty good comic mini-series as well (Flashpoint).

Only point being - it works really well where it's been used, and audiences - inside but particularly outside of comic fans - are totally into the whole time-travel ruination angle. It's the most important Flash development since...at least the Speed Force. It's bedrock, baby!

I don't think people would mind if it were just a chapter in the Allen/Thawne rivalry that got undone. But it has now been forcefully injected into the persona and legacy of Barry Allen, and it just feels so inorganic. Barry was never a hero with tragic origins. The Flash was never about doing good with trauma as a motivation.

And Flash comics have always had plenty of time-travel, but not as a crutch. I would argue that the dead mom angle made time travel such a constant trope in the show that even ardent fans of the show got sick of it, begging the writers to switch focus. And we'll never know how fans would have reacted had the show gone a different route, relying on a more faithful adaptation of the Rogues, developing the classic Barry-Wally relationship, or leaning into the CSI angle.

[Dr. Ellingham]

See, I'm of the opinion that fridging Barry's mum to motivate him to heroism takes away an important piece of his personality. He became the Flash because he felt it was the right thing to do.

Okay - but that's still the "prime" (if you will) timeline. Barry grows up with both parents, becomes the a CSI, then the Flash, and inspires/antagonizes Thawne. That's still what is "supposed to" happen. Except Thawne goes back in time, kills his mom and creates an alternate timeline.

But even in that messed up timeline, Barry still becomes the Flash because of who he is. But his life is now far more complicated and dangerous due to having a time-traveling arch-villain. Yes, it creates another DC character with dead parents, but within the mythology itself it generates a lot of story potential - saving his mom, or exonerating his dad, and others as well. That's what an origin should do; generate potential stories that reinforce core concepts. Time travel murderous speedster is absolutely a core concept to the Flash.

I actually thought Geoff Johns' original run on the Flash with Wally was INFINITELY superior to everything he wrote headlining Barry.

I agree his first run with Wally was better. I don't think that's much of a contest, really. What I was referring to was the core concepts. The most impactful thing Johns did to the Flash was arguably his revitalization of the rogues in his first run.

But you could also argue the Rebirth/Flashpoint origin is the single most influential thing he contributed to the mythos. One that will stick, most likely.

[Dr. Ellingham]

I don't think people would mind if it were just a chapter in the Allen/Thawne rivalry that got undone. But it has now been forcefully injected into the persona and legacy of Barry Allen, and it just feels so inorganic. Barry was never a hero with tragic origins.

Absolutely. And they could have gone that route - or a different route. There's many ways they could have brought back or rebooted Barry Allen. But the goal was clearly not simply "bring back the guy we all remember." (Which I think would be difficult - some remember the Waid pastiche, some remember the 1960s version from the Archives / reprints, and some (like me) like the Cary Bates version best.)

And I don't think the trauma is just a form of motivation; Barry is aware its his destiny to become the Flash - the tragedy begets obstacles, tough choices; the things we expect from modern stories.

As evidence I'd point you to the first season (and a half, or so) of the TV show, which Johns had a hand in adapting, free from editorial interference. It made for a terrific arc, and a unique, terrifying take on Thawne.