Do people see captain america more as symbol of freedom than Superman today?

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think people just see Captain America more and that's a huge difference.

[Powerboy]

The first thing we see Cavill's Superman doing is rescuing people from an oil fire when they almost get missed by a helicopter. We are then shown him standing up for a woman who is being sexually harassed, saving Lois after she is attacked by the ship's security system, trying to negotiate with Zod etc.

There is plenty positive to focus on in Superman in the movies but people would rather complain about the "darkness" (that isn't even that dark, I actually see people comparing him to Ultraman or the Homelander which is just laughable). Like with the premise of this thread, it seems Superman fans love complaining about him more than they like the character himself. And if you think this is an exaggeration, just look at how quickly they turned on him after he lost one fight to Supergirl in her own show.

Because you start with stuff like the oil fire but then you have stuff like showing pretty much no concern for bystanders in the big fight or even trying to move things away from them. Cap is shown doing every possible thing to save people. It gives a very different overall impression.

The problem is that people have an ideal of who Superman is or should be. Snyder Superman was disliked while CW Superman was liked even though, in fairness, a lot of people said they liked the Reeve Superman but the CW Superman was just a cardboard copy of him. Then the JL Superman kicked everybody's butt and became, at least physically, their idea of Superman while CW Superman lost a fight to a guuuuuuurrrrll and he suddenly was a horrible Superman.

Sure, some of it is silly. Some of it should have been predicted by the creative staff. The Supergirl show is about Supergirl. She is the "Superman" of that setting while he is the "Supergirl" of that setting. That is to say, she's the main deal and all other characters are there to support her.

I think that, with the movies, we see what we would expect to see in the early parts. Clark Kent rescues bus. Clark rescues oil workers. But we get a very waffling Superman who isn't sure if he even wants to be Superman. That's all potentially a great story. But yeah, maybe not one people want from Superman. Oppose this to a Cap who has a driving desire to help people and never really waffles on what he wants to do. He doesn't really even have such a high opinion of himself that he doubts he can live up to it. "There's nothing special about me. I'm just a kid from Brooklyn". Yeah, a kid that throws himself on grenades and so on. He's quite special.

I'm not even implying that one is a good story and the other is not. But is this what most people want from this character. Imagine a moping Captain America who gets the abilities but then isn't sure he wants to be Captain America, wonders if maybe it's a matter of whether he owes people or doesn't instead of focusing on what it is his nature to do and doesn't even think about saving bystanders. And, yes. That Superman was inexperienced. He needed a Cap just telling him what to do in a firefight. Neither a good story or a bad story. Just, again, is it what most people want from Superman?

I would say that, on a core level. JL Superman is what people want. Powerful, confident and sure that this is who he is. Now they just need to pull that off without making it feel superficial and cardboard.

[Powerboy]

I feel like people aren't denying that the positives are there so much as feeling that it's almost a pittance compared to the darker stuff (and even if it is a dream sequence, stuff like Superman burning people alive with his heat vision IS some heavy imagery in a movie that had to be trimmed down from an R rating that studio still wanted people to bring their kids to see). MoS is cited, on here at least, as being solid but with flaws, and had potential we would have liked to see develop in a different way. Most of it comes from BvS, which is a deliberately bleak movie where we still don't know this Superman that much to care about what he's going through. One reviewer on another forum said in a not so kind way "this movie was as exhausting as a late night argument with your spouse," and people don't generally feel that way if the positives outweigh the negatives. As a rule, I think people LIKED the examples you just posted, but the issue was there wasn't as much of it and it gets drowned out by the rest of it. You can't just keep pointing out these scenes that we already know about and say we're difficult to please, as if there isn't some valid criticisms to be had.

I also don't think audiences turned on Superman specifically in Supergirl, more the writing of how he was handled. Nobody reasonable wants Superman upstaging Kara in her own show, but the scene (in a show that doesn't have a reputation for subtle, nuanced writing) where he says she's a better hero than him can come across as 100% what the writers of the show want us to take away as truth and not just him being humble.

For one thing, the Snyder movies are theatrical movies. They are a vastly bigger target than some game, seen and experienced by overwhelmingly more people. I don't criticize the computer games because I've never played them, have no interest in them and consider them insignificant and irrelevant. Now that could well be my age and someone else considers them a huge influence.

With the movies, I respect their willingness to be really edgy but I don't think it's what a whole lot of people want.

As to the shows, I kind of like "Girl Power" (if that's not a condescending term), ranging from WW to Xena and so on. So I don't really have a problem with Supergirl beating Superman in a fight. I do think they should have done it a bit differently, have her be faster and more skilled rather than being able to punch harder and take a punch better, basically a macho fantasy fight where she stands there trading punches and making no effort to avoid them in a "I'm more macho than you are" kind of way.

But, again, we're talking about a show where Supergirl may not have been here before Superman but she's the one who has faced most of his villains and is the main character.

[Powerboy]

The Crimes of the MCU Captain America

> Mercilessly slaughtered mind controlled Shield Agents in Avengers 1 (A good reason to be reluctant to kill people in superhero universes is because of mind control)
> Allies with Shield, which in Avengers 1 is explicitly depicted as being nefarious organization because they were willing to nuke New York and the Avengers to maybe stop an alien invasion. He's also given a personal reason in Avengers 1 not to join them because they were working on Hydra tech and his friends also had reasons too (I forget theirs though)
> While in SHIELD, he does nothing to reform that institution and only begins to fight back against Hydra when they reveal themselves (So fighting Hydra now becomes a matter of survival, not proactive heroism)
> Allows Tony Stalk to walk free after he created a murderous AI
> Performed a failed and illegal mission in a foreign country, leading to the deaths of a dozen or more innocent people, including the leader of a sovereign power
> Instead of working with authorities with the whole Bucky thing, Cap allows himself to be manipulated into going rogue, which is what the main bad guy wanted
> Assaults German police officers who are dutifully trying to apprehend him (Batman fights cops all the time, but interestingly, he usual tries to flee from them without actually hitting them)
> Assaults his friends who are dutifully trying to apprehend him
> Escapes from prison after being rightly arrested
> I didn't watch Infinity war or Endgame (I try not to watch bad movies), but I know Cap is a coward who flees from the final fight which was a crime in the good ol' days

An emblem of liberty? More like criminality if you asked me. The thing with the people who keep comparing DCEU supes to MCU Cap is that, you people are literally applying a different standard. Supes kills one genocidal murderer and its all you people talk about, yet Cap can kill la kill and no one blinks an eye.

Given the conditions, Superman killing Zod was justified. Nobody really talks about him killing that guy in B v S to save Lois but that's because the whole movie doesn't lead up to the big shock of Superman killing like MoS does. The whole movie seems to lead up to that big moment when he kills as shock value so it's hard to criticize people for criticizing something that was meant to have shock value and be controversial.

In the first Iron-Man movie, I very much noticed when IM killed people and thought it was untrue to the character since he quickly developed a code against it in the comics but I had to let it go as I did with Superman.

I'd have to go back and watch all those movies again to see if I think your take is what I think happened. Although saying two movies you haven't even seen are bad is kind of telling.

It may well be that Superman is so iconic and everyone has a solid idea of who he is in their minds and that recent movies don't even come close while Cap is a name people have heard but they don't have as solid of ideas about who he is although, now, the movies will probably cause much more set ideas about him for future audiences.

[Frontier]

Nobody is saying it's only him, but they are leading with him and he's by far the most visible right now. Why not use Wonder Woman? She's not B-list, especially now, and it would be just as shocking as Superman.

Presumably because on some level they must know it would be a bad look right now as she has another movie coming out. But that's not an issue with Superman. They won't do it with Batman either, powers or no Batman killing someone begging for their life would be shocking, but they won't do it. And yeah, the brainwashed Superman arc for the movies didn't end up happening but the fact that it was even being entertained at all was alarming. They redacted it (maybe? we might still be getting it in some form in the Snyder Cut), but I don't really have much faith in the studio to understand why it was going to be a bad idea.

Considering the setting and the premise of the game, Superman honestly made the most sense to show. I know we have our preferences and it's not something I'm in love with but it made sense why they used him like they did in the trailer.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think that, with the movies, we see what we would expect to see in the early parts. Clark Kent rescues bus. Clark rescues oil workers. But we get a very waffling Superman who isn't sure if he even wants to be Superman. That's all potentially a great story. But yeah, maybe not one people want from Superman. Oppose this to a Cap who has a driving desire to help people and never really waffles on what he wants to do. He doesn't really even have such a high opinion of himself that he doubts he can live up to it. "There's nothing special about me. I'm just a kid from Brooklyn". Yeah, a kid that throws himself on grenades and so on. He's quite special.

I'm not even implying that one is a good story and the other is not. But is this what most people want from this character. Imagine a moping Captain America who gets the abilities but then isn't sure he wants to be Captain America, wonders if maybe it's a matter of whether he owes people or doesn't instead of focusing on what it is his nature to do and doesn't even think about saving bystanders. And, yes. That Superman was inexperienced. He needed a Cap just telling him what to do in a firefight. Neither a good story or a bad story. Just, again, is it what most people want from Superman?

I would say that, on a core level. JL Superman is what people want. Powerful, confident and sure that this is who he is. Now they just need to pull that off without making it feel superficial and cardboard.

Yeah, Cap just has a conviction and sense of purpose that Snyder Supes just doesn't have. To be fair, Ghost Dad telling him what his mission is is something that was in the Reeves film as well. We just need to break the Reevs/Donner nostalgia, and in its own way Snyder's film just reinforced it with a darker tone. I want a Superman who has conviction and wants his job as a superhero and seizes it. Even before knowing most of his origins, or even if doesn't know anything at all. The Kents can instill in him a sense of heroism and responsibility without being perfect people with all the perfect answers without also giving us the "maybe" line and "the cows drowned and my cake was bitter" bullshit. No AI Jor-El ever again please, have him and Lara get blown up and bow out of the narrative.

Yes JL was closer to what Superman should be like in personality and ability. The only downside is Wonder Woman got screwed over in the process. That and the CGI lips are the only things I would change. Everyone else in the JL fight went down like they should have (nobody should seriously think Batman, Aquaman and Cyborg have a snowball's chance in hell against a Supes that isn't fucking around, and Barry is a rookie).

Considering the setting and the premise of the game, Superman honestly made the most sense to show. I know we have our preferences and it's not something I'm in love with but it made sense why they used him like they did in the trailer.

There is some logic behind it, but it's just aggravating after people wanting a Rocksteady Superman game for so long only to get this instead (with him still at the forefront of the marketing). Had Injustice also not happened, it may have gone over better.

The fandome being advertised with a variation of the John Williams theme only get get this and not a hint of any news on the live action film front is a serious kick in the balls even though there was a lot of other good stuff at the event.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah, Cap just has a conviction and sense of purpose that Snyder Supes just doesn't have. To be fair, Ghost Dad telling him what his mission is is something that was in the Reeves film as well. We just need to break the Reevs/Donner nostalgia, and in its own way Snyder's film just reinforced it with a darker tone. I want a Superman who has conviction and wants his job as a superhero and seizes it. Even before knowing most of his origins, or even if doesn't know anything at all. The Kents can instill in him a sense of heroism and responsibility without being perfect people with all the perfect answers without also giving us the "maybe" line and "the cows drowned and my cake was bitter" bullshit. No AI Jor-El ever again please, have him and Lara get blown up and bow out of the narrative.

Yes JL was closer to what Superman should be like in personality and ability. The only downside is Wonder Woman got screwed over in the process. That and the CGI lips are the only things I would change. Everyone else in the JL fight went down like they should have (nobody should seriously think Batman, Aquaman and Cyborg have a snowball's chance in hell against a Supes that isn't fucking around, and Barry is a rookie).

This has been my problem with modern story telling his convictions don't come from him. It comes from his parents. On the contrary, i believe aquaman would have been able to do much, much better. As for personality, sure enough the guy wasn't a downer. But, i prefer my superman to be more rough around the edges. Sure enough, he would goof of with barry or make batman smile or poke fun of aquaman being macho.. Etc. But, he should have that intensity and conviction. Supes was just bulldozing through everyone. Moreover, i feel it just reinforces the caricature superman portrayals. Finally, i would prefer the character to not act like my dad/messiah or control the whole portrayal a bit. When cap behaved like that the movies generally made fun of him(language bit) . Don't have him give speeches with that mindset. Speeches should be based on his ideals, like captain.

His morality should be for limiting him, not for others to live by. Superman should be about the individual,not the society. When he becomes all about the society. He sucks. Point blank. Who wants to have a sky father anyways?by that, I am not saying he shouldn't have moments like regan either. There should be ways he can be portrayed as kind without feeling like he is my dad or something. One of the best moments in one piece, is luffy giving his hat to a distraught nami who stabbing herself with knife on the arm. So, it's entirely possible to have cathartic moments like that.

Heck! The goldenage guy had moments like that as well with a boxer trying to kill himself . Make superman a genuine badass with a kind heart, an idealist in mindset(not a rule clinging boyscout) , optimistic personality and whole lot of chivalry (protecting the weak and the oppressed). He shouldn't pick soft targets either. He shouldn't fight, fights that he knows he will win.

[jackolover]

To ordinary people, the fact that they watched MCU means that they learned Steve as a good man and being a hero and soldier not for the sake of his country, but for the sake of what the best that his eyes and heart told him. An idea that is very simple, but charming. Now, Superman also has the same charm as Steve, but the problem is DC never show or emphasize that. Instead, DC and WB really wanted to prove that Superman is a misery alien, alone, too strong for his own good and danger to society.

It's not even a wonder, if Captain America is more popular now. Marvel shows Captain America at it's best, the greatest hero of Marvel universe. Not because of his shield. Not because of his super-soldier serum. But for his heart. A heart that made him fight Thanos despite outmatch he is. The heart that made him able to lift Mjolnir. The heart that made him human despite how powerful he is. That's what won Captain America to people around the world, especially the one who eat manga and anime. Because Steve is really the type of hero that they loved and you can see from how famous Captain America in Japan.

Now Superman also can reach that kind of famous if DC and WB can cast aside of how they need to write him as an alien god and instead write him with more focus on how human he is. How he indulge at his power for small child thing. How wondrous his power is. How vast and diverse the world of Superman is. And of course the heroic moment that seemingly natural no matter how you push it. Not because he got power from eating a hair after one cool scene. Not because he just spouts cool things here and there. But because he wanted to do a good thing from his heart and that moved him to do the right thing. That's how you won people on how to sell Superman. Not on his power, but, on his heart that do the right thing for the right people.

It's corny, I know. But to me that's Superman at his best and if Captain America can do it then Superman also can do it.

I think it would be worth at least addressing the elephant in the room about What Superman stands for. It says on the old TV series he is for “Truth, justice and the American way”, but there is so much injustice in society, that if Superman showed up for The George Floyd, or Jacob Blake type situations, that would be controversial. That is what I want DC to confront with Superman in the middle of that.

Because, you see, DC have this Superman. When he first appeared he punched wife beaters, but never progressed further than that. If there is injustice in the world in America, he should pick a side. DC has, like Marvel, side-stepped the moral issues of the times. I can rationalise the Marvel Earth super heroes keeping away from injustice, because they are too close to it. But Superman? He’s this outsider, and he doesn’t have a horse in this race. Superman can walk up to these situations, put his hand up to stop the bullets, the brick walls, the loss of outreach, and dictate his own moral in those situations, because America can’t kick him out. Superman can go or stay where he likes and no one can stop him.

I know, as Clark Kent, Clark does get viewed as human with a sensitivity not to rock the boat. But this is Superman. He’s seen how humans make it hard for other humans, and it doesn’t have to be this endemic. All around the world, it’s the same problem. But at least in one country, for”The American way”. Superman could do something there.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I think it would be worth at least addressing the elephant in the room about What Superman stands for. It says on the old TV series he is for “Truth, justice and the American way”, but there is so much injustice in society, that if Superman showed up for The George Floyd, or Jacob Blake type situations, that would be controversial. That is what I want DC to confront with Superman in the middle of that.

Because, you see, DC have this Superman. When he first appeared he punched wife beaters, but never progressed further than that. If there is injustice in the world in America, he should pick a side. DC has, like Marvel, side-stepped the moral issues of the times. I can rationalise the Marvel Earth super heroes keeping away from injustice, because they are too close to it. But Superman? He’s this outsider, and he doesn’t have a horse in this race. Superman can walk up to these situations, put his hand up to stop the bullets, the brick walls, the loss of outreach, and dictate his own moral in those situations, because America can’t kick him out. Superman can go or stay where he likes and no one can stop him.

I know, as Clark Kent, Clark does get viewed as human with a sensitivity not to rock the boat. But this is Superman. He’s seen how humans make it hard for other humans, and it doesn’t have to be this endemic. All around the world, it’s the same problem. But at least in one country, for”The American way”. Superman could do something there.

The thing is that Superman standing for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" was introduced in the 40s and 50s, it wasn't part of his character when originally introduced. And making Superman an embodiment of the "American Patriarch" and a substitute father figure for generations of young comics readers (many of whom grew up to become Dan Jurgens, Roger Stern, Mark Waid, John Byrne among others) has hampered the character rather than helped it. They approach the character (not all of them, some more than others, Waid above all) with too much reverence and that freezes the ideas one can have about Supes.

Captain America can embody that more honestly than Superman because of his ties to actual history, but Superman can't do that because there's no history to him.

To me Superman is interesting for his character. He's got a real interior dilemma to him. He spent his childhood thinking he was human (at least in more recent versions) then in adolescence, he learned he came from Krypton and that he had these powers. He has to navigate multiple different versions of himself, he has to control his powers, he's from Krypton but he got his powers thanks to the Yellow Sun on Earth, so Superman himself is not wholly Kryptonian or wholly Earth, because he would not have those powers on Krypton. That should be what Superman stories and movies should focus on, constantly asking "Who is Superman?" because the character himself would be asking that, and he did ask that all the time in the strongest stories in the Silver Age, Bronze Age, Post-Crisis era.

[Soubhagya]

You know what kind reactions hydra cap got. Superman on the other hand has had a slew of evil Superman or incompetent once starting from darkknight returns. Yet people largely embrace it. Does this mean cap means more than Superman, today? Your thoughts, if any.

Hydra Cap is fundamentally wrong with the character. He was punching Nazis from the very first issue. Hydra may not be technically Nazi, it is pretty much a Nazi group. That would be sensitive any day.

Superman being incompetent or evil goes far back. Dark Knight Returns is the gateway to comics for many a reader. That along with books like Sandman, Watchmen are evergreen books. Any person with a casual interest will get started with these books.

Notice that Superman does not have any. All Star Superman means someone has gone one step above casual interest in comics. I have to admit that if required Superman can make an amazing villain. Remember he is the exception to the rule 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

There's a fragmented approach to Superman. Unlike Batman who has the entire publication history at his disposal, Superman gets rebooted all the time. People are either doing an origin. Or doing some continuity fix. Or maybe raising some pseudo-intellectual point. The main books thus aren't consistently great.

So, there is no forward thinking. I see in early 2000s they were bringing back elements from Silver Age. Now we see people asking to bring back Post Crisis elements. There is nothing wrong in looking back. You can find many a good idea at some place. But i see for Superman its always like i want to change something in the setting. Marriage, Kents, etc. This kind of thinking will rarely yield a great run.

In vaccum, people will gravitate to stories like Injustice. Even though i hate it, general consensus is its a great series of stories. Something other Superman is unable to provide. Films are a mixed bag. There are no cartoons. That is not a priority for any DC character now. Video games are tricky. And very risky considering previous failed attempts. Till now they didn't want to make Superman on TV for clashing with films. Comics are usually average.

You will need great work to catch people's attention. Something like an animated Harley Quin can do wonders for the big guy. Or a run like Immortal Hulk can really get people talking. That's also made diificult by fans If you try something different the fanbase can be very vocal about it. Some stuff for instance aren't issues at all. Superman killed as far back as Superman 2.

So, i think its about bad luck and qualities of stories. Ben Affleck's Batman was borderline villainous. But you had Nolan trilogy before that. Arkham series of games is great. Even as far as 1989, Batman had a very good 8-bit game. You are always surrounded by good Batman if Batfleck isn't your cup of tea.

Its not that people embrace evil Superman. Unless you are someone like Joker or Loki, villains aren't usually celebrated. That sort of villain is the kind of villain you love to hate. People simply gravitate to quality stuff. Without Winter Soldier and Civil War, Captain America wouldn't come up in this thread. Both were box office hits, fan favorites and managed to get critical acclaim as well.

[Laufeyson]

To me Superman is interesting for his character. He's got a real interior dilemma to him. He spent his childhood thinking he was human (at least in more recent versions) then in adolescence, he learned he came from Krypton and that he had these powers. He has to navigate multiple different versions of himself, he has to control his powers, he's from Krypton but he got his powers thanks to the Yellow Sun on Earth, so Superman himself is not wholly Kryptonian or wholly Earth, because he would not have those powers on Krypton. That should be what Superman stories and movies should focus on, constantly asking "Who is Superman?" because the character himself would be asking that, and he did ask that all the time in the strongest stories in the Silver Age, Bronze Age, Post-Crisis era.

I agree with you if we only count the first few arcs of comic or in movie case, the first movie. I don't want Superman to question who he is every single time it will get boring and uninspiring for his characters. But if it's the first two installments then I will watch it. I mean, if Raimi's Spider-Man starts with Spider-Man questioning himself, then will it become as good as people love. Or if Spider-Man suddenly questioning his power because some old dude suddenly appeared and said that your power come from the totem, it will be bad, right? I am sure the answer is yes. The dilemma of asking questions about who he is only working for a young hero who is unsure. If it's Year One Superman, then I am on it. But, if it's Superman when he already become a superhero for a few years then the answer is no.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I agree with you if we only count the first few arcs of comic or in movie case, the first movie.

To me it's more of an ongoing unresolved thing, the same way Batman's issues with his past, Spider-Man's issues with power-and-responsibility.

I don't want Superman to question who he is every single time it will get boring and uninspiring for his characters.

Not always. Think of Alan Moore's "The Jungle Line" where Superman has this disease and he fantasizes seeing the Clark Kent and Superman outfits talking and you realize that the entire issue of "Is Clark Kent or Superman the real person" irrelevant because the real guy isn't really entirely any of these identities.

Like in the STAS episode "The Late Mr. Kent" where Superman says, "I'd go crazy if I were Superman all the time" so he constantly needs to shift identities to be himself.

The main issue of Superman is identity, the story of you. And that's quite universal and still fascinating psychology.

The dilemma of asking questions about who he is only working for a young hero who is unsure.

That's this nostrum that's spread and repeated by editors of both companies but it's not true. People constantly ask questions about their lives and where they are going. Especially in a more modern context. I think we all agree that the next Superman shouldn't be some nostalgic throwback to a time when people grew up having a fixed linear identity.

The DCAU Superman was constantly asking questions about himself throughout STAS, JL, JLU and he was definitely an established mainstream take (even if some fans here don't seem to like it much).

[Laufeyson]

To me it's more of an ongoing unresolved thing, the same way Batman's issues with his past, Spider-Man's issues with power-and-responsibility.



Not always. Think of Alan Moore's "The Jungle Line" where Superman has this disease and he fantasizes seeing the Clark Kent and Superman outfits talking and you realize that the entire issue of "Is Clark Kent or Superman the real person" irrelevant because the real guy isn't really entirely any of these identities.

Like in the STAS episode "The Late Mr. Kent" where Superman says, "I'd go crazy if I were Superman all the time" so he constantly needs to shift identities to be himself.

The main issue of Superman is identity, the story of you. And that's quite universal and still fascinating psychology.



That's this nostrum that's spread and repeated by editors of both companies but it's not true. People constantly ask questions about their lives and where they are going. Especially in a more modern context. I think we all agree that the next Superman shouldn't be some nostalgic throwback to a time when people grew up having a fixed linear identity.

The DCAU Superman was constantly asking questions about himself throughout STAS, JL, JLU and he was definitely an established mainstream take (even if some fans here don't seem to like it much).

Ah now I see where are you going and I get it. Kind like with Joe Kelly and Doug Manhkee's What is so Funny about Truth and Justice in American Way, if the idea is the unresolved thing then it's quite alright and you are especially right about people constantly ask a question about their lives and where are they going. But I think on the other hand this also quite a contrast with his image and that is an inspiring symbol for everyone. Which I believe is a good thing. I think (which I think you will agree too) this theme will make a great story theme because of how hypocrite it is. Can a person who doubts himself be the inspiration for the others. Yeah that would be a really cool theme as Superman if it's done in subtle manner. If it's to broad then I fear there will be a riot here and there.

[Guy1]

There is plenty positive to focus on in Superman in the movies but people would rather complain about the "darkness" (that isn't even that dark, I actually see people comparing him to Ultraman)..

What's wrong with that?

[Laufeyson]

What's wrong with that?

Too many toys, man... Too many toys...