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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    Eh. General appearance and powers. But I do agree that it wasted the character. The movie would have been a lot better, imo, if the main doctor/villain had just been Sinister. They could have even made her Ms. Sinister, if they wanted a female. There was no reason to butcher Cece like this.
    Just theorizing, but her powers answered the question why the kids couldn't just overpower her and escape just like that (or make a break for it after Rahne half-mauled her); since she kept the facility under a force field, they couldn't just slip out the back door and were forced to confront her again after the charade was revealed. Also, given that she's a heroic character in the source material, that might've helped set up the surprise of her being a villain in this one.

    Seems logical.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    How was it a surprise?
    The White Queen coulda easily been the villian and was telepathically blocking the NM from escaping....
    Lots more logical
    lol
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Just theorizing, but her powers answered the question why the kids couldn't just overpower her and escape just like that (or make a break for it after Rahne half-mauled her); since she kept the facility under a force field, they couldn't just slip out the back door and were forced to confront her again after the charade was revealed. Also, given that she's a heroic character in the source material, that might've helped set up the surprise of her being a villain in this one.

    Seems logical.
    That's a big waste of Cecelia, and they could come up with other ways to contain the kids. For a movie Cecelia works as the audience surrogate and an unseen reaction to the super-hero world from a mutant perspective. No films have a character like her in with the X-men. Emma Frost would be perfect for this story, setting her up for redemption with Generation X. Mr. Sinister's a shape shifter and telepath, hey could have him pose as Emma Frost or a new character for the villain who runs the facility, too.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    How was it a surprise?
    The White Queen coulda easily been the villian and was telepathically blocking the NM from escaping....
    Lots more logical
    lol
    Seeing as Emma Frost had been dead for years by this point in the movie series, she wasn't an option (not to mention being an obvious villain).

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That's a big waste of Cecelia, and they could come up with other ways to contain the kids. For a movie Cecelia works as the audience surrogate and an unseen reaction to the super-hero world from a mutant perspective. No films have a character like her in with the X-men. Emma Frost would be perfect for this story, setting her up for redemption with Generation X. Mr. Sinister's a shape shifter and telepath, hey could have him pose as Emma Frost or a new character for the villain who runs the facility, too.
    Well, Dani was cast as the audience surrogate and, as pointed out, Frost had already been written out of the series. (Could Sinister have posed as a telepath, though, even if we ignore the fact that we already knew that Frost was dead in the movies -- as far as faking mind-reading went?).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Seeing as Emma Frost had been dead for years by this point in the movie series, she wasn't an option (not to mention being an obvious villain).



    Well, Dani was cast as the audience surrogate and, as pointed out, Frost had already been written out of the series. (Could Sinister have posed as a telepath, though, even if we ignore the fact that we already knew that Frost was dead in the movies -- as far as faking mind-reading went?).
    Why do you think Emna frost was written/dead in the series? DOFP r settge universe so all the movies before are moot
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Why do you think Emna frost was written/dead in the series? DOFP r settge universe so all the movies before are moot
    Emma died before the 1970s right after X-Men First Class. Emma still dead.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Emma died before the 1970s right after X-Men First Class. Emma still dead.
    Yeah Magneto claiming she died... somewhere off panel is among the flimsiest confirmations. We've already seen Xavier body hope after he died in Last Stand. Emma coulda done the same or manipulated memories to have everyone think she died.
    Revealing Emma is alive and the antagonist would be a Double surprise
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  8. #53
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    For me I felt Anya Taylor Joy was good.
    I think Rayne and Dani were both good individually but I just found the romance boring and unneeded. Really hurt the movie win that being out in.
    I think the monsters being based off the Gentlemen from Buffy was alright. Nothing amazing but alright. They seemed like the gentleman if they were Russian guys at a club who would hit on you with their open collar shirts and chest tats. I don't know why they had to be kinda the main villains

    When it comes to the "racism" there are two types of people in the world people who think nobody should have to experience it and people who think everyone should have to experience it equally. I tend to fall into the latter argument camp. I find insults totally fine as long as it's not dogpiling. It was Illyanas personality not really a meta insult, it worked.

    The weakest things for me would definitely be the male characters. They really didn't belong. You could remove both of the male characters and nothing changes. Every female is somehow important to the story whereas the male characters were kinda just...there. They come in with the "hey you know these guys from the comics well here's that name you know them as" not to mention I didn't particularly like the male characters themselves.

    They included Essex corp which I did feel added a particularly creepy element to the movie and sad we are gonna have to wait a long time Til Essex shows up in the MCU

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    For me I felt Anya Taylor Joy was good.
    Agreed that she stood out in her performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    I think Rayne and Dani were both good individually but I just found the romance boring and unneeded. Really hurt the movie win that being out in.
    Actually didn't have a problem with it and thought it worked. Would certainly argue that it was one of the better realized love stories in the film series in terms of set up and dynamics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    I think the monsters being based off the Gentlemen from Buffy was alright. Nothing amazing but alright. They seemed like the gentleman if they were Russian guys at a club who would hit on you with their open collar shirts and chest tats. I don't know why they had to be kinda the main villains
    I guess to keep the Demon Bear from being overused and to keep Reyes' twist a surprise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    When it comes to the "racism" there are two types of people in the world people who think nobody should have to experience it and people who think everyone should have to experience it equally. I tend to fall into the latter argument camp. I find insults totally fine as long as it's not dogpiling. It was Illyanas personality not really a meta insult, it worked.
    Never really understood why that became such a point of contention, esp. since it was made pretty clear that it was unacceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    The weakest things for me would definitely be the male characters. They really didn't belong. You could remove both of the male characters and nothing changes. Every female is somehow important to the story whereas the male characters were kinda just...there. They come in with the "hey you know these guys from the comics well here's that name you know them as" not to mention I didn't particularly like the male characters themselves.
    I liked Roberto and Sam as characters and I do think they were better fleshed out then the supporting characters in some of the previous movies (e.g. Cyclops in the original trilogy, the bad guy minions in just about everything else). I will concede, though, that the female characters did get more focus (Dani being the primary protagonists, Rahne being Dani's closest friend and love interest, and Magik for being a rival for Dani as well as the main heavy hitter).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    They included Essex corp which I did feel added a particularly creepy element to the movie and sad we are gonna have to wait a long time Til Essex shows up in the MCU
    Thought that was mostly supposed to tie into Apocalypse and Logan (maybe acting a buildup to some crossover movie that isn't going to happen now). That said, works as a puzzle piece for the series as is.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    How was Cecilia Reyes char involvement a twist and not just shitty random character use? What was the twist?
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post

    Actually didn't have a problem with it and thought it worked. Would certainly argue that it was one of the better realized love stories in the film series in terms of set up and dynamics.
    I can only compare it to itself. I personally (and this is only an opinion) I felt it slowed down the movie a lot when there was a lot of other things I think could have really helped. Maybe more scenes with the whole group bonding idk

    I guess to keep the Demon Bear from being overused and to keep Reyes' twist a surprise?
    Yeah I actually agree with that. Though I think that did make it kind of weird that one persons manifestations was the main baddy. Again I think I would have preferred more group chemistry and something that ties everyone to the threat. And Illyana leaving Cannonball behind felt kinda uninspired because I wasnít totally sure if I should fed fear for Cannonball or if he could easily get out of it.


    Never really understood why that became such a point of contention, esp. since it was made pretty clear that it was unacceptable.
    At this point Iím never sure if something is social media clout driven or actual anger. Or maybe Iím too jaded to understand why itís important lol

    I liked Roberto and Sam as characters and I do think they were better fleshed out then the supporting characters in some of the previous movies (e.g. Cyclops in the original trilogy, the bad guy minions in just about everything else). I will concede, though, that the female characters did get more focus (Dani being the primary protagonists, Rahne being Dani's closest friend and love interest, and Magik for being a rival for Dani as well as the main heavy hitter).
    Yeah pretty much. I didnít particularly love the actors themselves either so that might have had something to do with it

    Thought that was mostly supposed to tie into Apocalypse and Logan (maybe acting a buildup to some crossover movie that isn't going to happen now). That said, works as a puzzle piece for the series as is.
    Essex was going to officially debut in the Channing Tatum Gambit movie. The end scenes In previous movies were supposed to set up his introduction to the Fox universe.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/x-men-mi...um-fox%3famp=1

  12. #57
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    Comment double posted same as the one above for some reason so just deleted it
    Last edited by Gripstir; 09-08-2020 at 10:55 PM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    How was Cecilia Reyes char involvement a twist and not just shitty random character use? What was the twist?
    Well, the point is that we expect her to be a good guy and she's secretly the villain...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    I can only compare it to itself. I personally (and this is only an opinion) I felt it slowed down the movie a lot when there was a lot of other things I think could have really helped. Maybe more scenes with the whole group bonding idk
    Well, I liked it, you didn't. Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Yeah I actually agree with that. Though I think that did make it kind of weird that one persons manifestations was the main baddy. Again I think I would have preferred more group chemistry and something that ties everyone to the threat.
    I can see the point, but I

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    And Illyana leaving Cannonball behind felt kinda uninspired because I wasn’t totally sure if I should fed fear for Cannonball or if he could easily get out of it.
    I think that was meant more to make us question Magik, since it looks like she's just trying to save her own skin until she comes back fully armed to deal with the monsters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    At this point I’m never sure if something is social media clout driven or actual anger. Or maybe I’m too jaded to understand why it’s important lol
    What I heard either boiled down to "that's not how Magik was in the comics (to which I have to point out that this isn't the comics and that I got the idea that Magik herself wasn't a racist as much as she was "just" using the slurs as an easy way to try and tear Dani down) or "we shouldn't have to hear our rare minority comic book hero deal with racist language (to which I have to say that you failed to explain why that's the case and it seems like you're angry that the movie didn't do what you wanted instead of having a constructive point).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Yeah pretty much. I didn’t particularly love the actors themselves either so that might have had something to do with it
    Okay. I thought they did fine, so no real complaints about the casting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Essex was going to officially debut in the Channing Tatum Gambit movie. The end scenes In previous movies were supposed to set up his introduction to the Fox universe.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/x-men-mi...um-fox%3famp=1
    That would've been pretty effective build up (although considering that they couldn't make a Gambit movie to save their lives, it's kinda tragic). At least the setup works as-is with the movies we got.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post

    I think that was meant more to make us question Magik, since it looks like she's just trying to save her own skin until she comes back fully armed to deal with the monsters.
    Yeah I suppose you're right here. Though I think they could have fleshed out the relationship between her and Cannonball a bit more then cause it really didn't feel like she cared at all about him so it never felt like he felt betrayed.


    What I heard either boiled down to "that's not how Magik was in the comics (to which I have to point out that this isn't the comics and that I got the idea that Magik herself wasn't a racist as much as she was "just" using the slurs as an easy way to try and tear Dani down) or "we shouldn't have to hear our rare minority comic book hero deal with racist language (to which I have to say that you failed to explain why that's the case and it seems like you're angry that the movie didn't do what you wanted instead of having a constructive point).
    I agree with all this. I think one thing is they are afraid to have minorities say racist stuff back as banter. We could go into a long discussion about trash talk but I think you said it best about she said it to tear Dani down. Illyana's personality in the movie is clearly one trying to tear down anyone apart of this building that she hates. She is lashing out at everyone that she can. We can see her spray painting the building and doing all these things to break the norm. I find her comments and her actions fit her personality where she's doing anything to feel like she's the one in control, because internally she feels like she has no control. I thought she was the most interesting character because they never try to explain her character too much you're just supposed to understand it by seeing the events around her. I really liked that


    That would've been pretty effective build up (although considering that they couldn't make a Gambit movie to save their lives, it's kinda tragic). At least the setup works as-is with the movies we got.
    Yeah the Gambit movie got rewritten 50 times over trying to get it made. Thanks to a user on the Gambit appreciation thread I was able to read a version of the script they were writting. I'm not sure how many times after that version it was rewritten but the Essex stuff seemed kind of cool and wish I could see how it got rewritten

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Yeah I suppose you're right here. Though I think they could have fleshed out the relationship between her and Cannonball a bit more then cause it really didn't feel like she cared at all about him so it never felt like he felt betrayed.
    Well, there is basic human decency (or to be more pragmatic, keeping an ally alive so they can help you later).


    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    I agree with all this. I think one thing is they are afraid to have minorities say racist stuff back as banter. We could go into a long discussion about trash talk but I think you said it best about she said it to tear Dani down. Illyana's personality in the movie is clearly one trying to tear down anyone apart of this building that she hates. She is lashing out at everyone that she can. We can see her spray painting the building and doing all these things to break the norm. I find her comments and her actions fit her personality where she's doing anything to feel like she's the one in control, because internally she feels like she has no control. I thought she was the most interesting character because they never try to explain her character too much you're just supposed to understand it by seeing the events around her. I really liked that
    Sure. Even her puppet makes sense before the big reveal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Yeah the Gambit movie got rewritten 50 times over trying to get it made. Thanks to a user on the Gambit appreciation thread I was able to read a version of the script they were writting. I'm not sure how many times after that version it was rewritten but the Essex stuff seemed kind of cool and wish I could see how it got rewritten
    Who knows, maybe Marvel Studios will try their own Gambit movie.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

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