New Mutants Film thread spoilers in here only

[Criticalfan]

I never really read the comics, but I read some of these characters in the 90's in X-Force and picked up some of the lore other places.
So coming at it as a movie only:
The cast did well enough with what they were given, but there probably should have been more scenes of them becoming a team. You can see the 'Breakfast Club' influences.
The plot hangs together enough that it doesn't derail enjoyment as you watch, but if you think about it the villainy was not well done.
PG-13 horror is very tricky to get right, and probably has been done better elsewhere.
Illyana is the star going forward as she has scenes where she is both hard and brittle and does OK in both.
The climax is anti-climactic but in a way that's refreshing that it's not domination or murder that stops the antagonist.

Coming at it with some knowledge of the books:
The Dani-Rahne thing need not be continued if they just say "they were comforting each other, and experimenting, but they grew out of it." That may have terrible LGBT erasure optics but that's a path to take.
Sam could not say "Ah'm invulnerable while I'm blastin'!", even by the end. Because he definitely was getting hurt a lot! And Berto still burns things accidentally. These kids still need to make it to Xavier's for training in their powers.

[Midnighter]

Can someone please spoil the differences in their powers from the comics to the movie?

[WebLurker]

Liked the movie a lot. Sorry that the rest of the trilogy won't get made.

Didn't care for the Sinister connection given that it is pointless now,if it was before the buyout.

It tied into Apocalypse -- where the stinger shows the Essex Corporation collecting the Weapon X samples -- and more or less into Logan -- the footage of the Transigen mutants being "trained" is recycled to represent what Reys and Essex are training their victims for. This makes sense, given that the intent was that the Essex Corporation and Transigen were supposed to be the same thing (or what one evolved into over the years). While Logan's backstory fits really badly with both Apocalypse and New Mutants (the New Mutants's existing in the 2010/2020s is incompatible with Logan's statement that new mutant births stopped before that), sloppy continuity is nothing new with the series.

So, long story short, Essex wasn't for setting up future movies that'll never happen, but helping tying New Mutants into the franchise's past and placing it in the larger cinematic universe.

Don't get the move to have Dani and Rahne be lesbians when they are not in the comics (unless that was changed? I don't read much of their series but last i saw they were just good friends), i mean i know the director said it is the natural extension given they have a physic connection...how the hell does that work?

Okay, for the connection thing: "Rahne and Dani have a telepathic connection in the comics, and so we just wanted to extend that in the film and put that within reality. If they really could understand each other on that level, then you'd probably end up falling in love with that person." - Maisie Williams (Rahne)

I think the idea is that they were going off of how in the original comic series, Dani could telepathically link with animals, so, in a logical extension of that, she and Rahne could basically mind meld when she was in her wolf form. Since Dani's animal telepathy wasn't really used in the movies, that doesn't exactly come to play in the film, so the comment is a little more confusing. In practice, movie Dani and Rahne seemed to bond more over understanding the other's depression and that they were afraid of their own powers but didn't fear the others' (e.g. Dani thinking Rahne's wolf eyes were beautiful and Rahne outright telling Dani that she wasn't afraid of her horror illusions because she knew who she really was). Blu Hunt (Dani) also noted in an interview that they were going for a love at first sight thing.

As far as Rahne and Dani having a lesbian relationship in the comics, that a "yes and no" situation. They never actually got together and the characters have been stated to be canonically straight. However, Chris Claremont basically wrote them as being in love in his original run with subtext as subtle as a falling anvil (granted, I've been told that he basically wrote all characters as being bisexual in his stuff, but still). Popular belief why that never went anywhere was due to homophobic brass at Marvel forbidding him from actually showing the characters in a lesbian relationship and subsequent writers depicting them as very straight (whether that counts as lesbian/bisexual erasure, since it was only in subtext can be debated). This fan site compiles the evidence that they were supposed to be a couple and it's pretty convincing.

So, long story short, Dani and Rahne technically weren't a couple in the comics, but the movie depicting them as such is true to the original intent.

Can someone please spoil the differences in their powers from the comics to the movie?

Okay, going off of memory...

Dani: Her original power set (it changed a bit in the comics) was that she could telepathically show people a realistic illusion of what they wanted most or of their deepest fear. That was simplified to just fear-based illusions (although the effects are the same). She was also shown as being able to telepathically bond with animals (and with Rahne when in her wolf form), which the film omitted. The flashes of general telepathy she shows (picking out Reys memories of Essex's mutant "training" and getting a piece of Illyana's memories) are things I don't recall from the originals. Also, the Demon Bear wasn't generated by her powers, but an outside entity.

Rahne:Basically exactly what we get in the movie, although I think her partial wolf form was something she didn't learn how to do until later (and I know a lot of artists depicted her more wolfy then then the film did).

Sam: His film counterpart lacks the invulnerability he has in the comics while using his powers (although he does seem tougher then the average human).

Illyana: Lockheed isn't her's, but Kitty's in the comics (and not a puppet that can be brought to life but a real dragon). In the comics, she's a teleporter who goes through Limbo to jump from place to place. However, Limbo is a real place (not the true Hell, but a supernatural reality like it), not something Illyana conjured up in her mind and later became real because of how much she used it. Her generating armor and Soul Sword are comics accurate, except that they're implied to be part of her power set, while in the comics, she was trapped in Limbo for years and learned magic, thus allowing her to make and conjure up the weapon and other feats. (Long story short, everything supernatural about Illyana is indicated to be mutant powers in the movie). I've also seem references that she's telepathic resistant in the comics, which is not the case in the movie, since Dani saw a memory fragment from her. Also, most of Illyana's darker nature in the comics is shown to be tied to her long time trapped in Limbo and kinda corrupted by the demons (she eventually became the ruler and sometimes has them under her command as a result), while the movie implies that she was a human trafficking victim and used her Limbo "happy place" to cope with being raped, thus kinda making a similar analogue.

Roberto: In the comics, I understand that his powers changed over time. Originally, he absorbed solar rays that he could use to generate a "glowing man" form that gave him super strength. The movies removed the solar aspect, tying it more to his emotions. The idea of him being able to shoot flaming blasts and having a burning touch came after the original comics.

[ClanAskani]

One of the main areas where the movie does fall apart is the horror aspect, which I was disappointed wasn't better done. And what actually makes it worse is having the Buffy episode Hush playing in the background since that is what Boone was trying to do and it just falls flat on its face.

And it's not that there needed to be a large amount of R-rated horror elements added with blood or gore. The two areas where it failed was the editing and in the way the characters reacted to each time there was a transition from one of the horror scenes with a flashback/greatest fear to the main plot. This should have been continuing to ratchet up the tension, making the characters feel more and more afraid and making the audience feel completely unsettled and uncertain what's real and what's not.

It was far too predictable when each of the horror sequences would happen so the tension was gone. Playing up the creepiness of the location, building anticipation with misdirections and then doing something unexpected could have been accomplished with better editing. Maybe some fill-in pickup shots were needed to have some shots to fill in with what was already shot, but the sound design, the music, all of those could have contributed to set-up each of the horror sequences.

Then after each of the horror scenes, there isn't enough tension created that the characters are terrified, especially Rahne after she's attacked. There's are some really awkward cuts that seem like - seriously? You released this like that? It's not even clear what happened, and if the characters are acting like nothing happened, why should the audience care?

The editors worked on other Fox movies and other superhero movies, but they needed to bring in experienced horror/thriller editors who work on low budget Blumhouse movies since Boone wasn't able to create that type of mood.

I liked the references with Buffy playing in the background, but what's frustrating with showing Hush is that the Gentlemen are so much creepier and unsettling than then smiling guys - all with a lower budget. If Boone is such a big Buffy fan, then why not blatantly swipe elements that worked in Buffy to create horror on a tv budget? Heck, Drew Goddard would have been a better fit for this than Josh Boone.

The entire build-up of tension that they're all going to die, how are are they going to get out of this is not accomplished which makes the last act fall flat. They all have their powers, so it's only if they use them that's the issue. Boone could have just swiped something that worked in Buffy to solve this problem of building up what stops the hero from immediately defeating the bad guy while in a horror movie type situation.

This does seem like what Kinberg was working on fixing in some reshoots which didn't happen and barely any movie of this level wouldn't have any pickups. And based on the rumors about the pickups, it does seem like there wasn't the coverage needed to provide creepy shots of the hospital.

[c-lei]

Liked the movie a lot. Sorry that the rest of the trilogy won't get made.



It tied into Apocalypse -- where the stinger shows the Essex Corporation collecting the Weapon X samples -- and more or less into Logan -- the footage of the Transigen mutants being "trained" is recycled to represent what Reys and Essex are training their victims for. This makes sense, given that the intent was that the Essex Corporation and Transigen were supposed to be the same thing (or what one evolved into over the years). While Logan's backstory fits really badly with both Apocalypse and New Mutants (the New Mutants's existing in the 2010/2020s is incompatible with Logan's statement that new mutant births stopped before that), sloppy continuity is nothing new with the series.

So, long story short, Essex wasn't for setting up future movies that'll never happen, but helping tying New Mutants into the franchise's past and placing it in the larger cinematic universe.



Okay, for the connection thing: "Rahne and Dani have a telepathic connection in the comics, and so we just wanted to extend that in the film and put that within reality. If they really could understand each other on that level, then you'd probably end up falling in love with that person." - Maisie Williams (Rahne)

I think the idea is that they were going off of how in the original comic series, Dani could telepathically link with animals, so, in a logical extension of that, she and Rahne could basically mind meld when she was in her wolf form. Since Dani's animal telepathy wasn't really used in the movies, that doesn't exactly come to play in the film, so the comment is a little more confusing. In practice, movie Dani and Rahne seemed to bond more over understanding the other's depression and that they were afraid of their own powers but didn't fear the others' (e.g. Dani thinking Rahne's wolf eyes were beautiful and Rahne outright telling Dani that she wasn't afraid of her horror illusions because she knew who she really was). Blu Hunt (Dani) also noted in an interview that they were going for a love at first sight thing.

As far as Rahne and Dani having a lesbian relationship in the comics, that a "yes and no" situation. They never actually got together and the characters have been stated to be canonically straight. However, Chris Claremont basically wrote them as being in love in his original run with subtext as subtle as a falling anvil (granted, I've been told that he basically wrote all characters as being bisexual in his stuff, but still). Popular belief why that never went anywhere was due to homophobic brass at Marvel forbidding him from actually showing the characters in a lesbian relationship and subsequent writers depicting them as very straight (whether that counts as lesbian/bisexual erasure, since it was only in subtext can be debated). This fan site compiles the evidence that they were supposed to be a couple and it's pretty convincing.

So, long story short, Dani and Rahne technically weren't a couple in the comics, but the movie depicting them as such is true to the original intent.

None of the nonsense you're espousing here is remotely true. The nature of the psi-bond in the New Mutants Comic Book between Dani and Rahne was that of an extremely close big/little sister or maybe a mother/daughter if you pushed it,as was shown in the 1985 New Mutants Special Edition #1. (Yes,I was buying the book back then and still have it.)

Dani could be extremely over protective of Rahne at times in the comic book,but it was never anything remotely approaching to being a couple or lovers. It was far,far stronger than that.

[Master of Sound]

Trying to find any resemblance between the movie Doc Reyes e=and the one of the comics, I found none. Waste of a great comic character.

Also, I liked the Sunspot version of X-Men better, even though he barely had any text.

[Dipter]

I’ve been meaning to post a thorough review for a while now, but I got busy. This is gonna be a mouthful:

The first ten minutes or so is when I felt the film was at its weakest. It starts off rough by immediately dropping you into the demon bear attacking Dani’s reservation. The whole sequence is cool in concept, with her and father running through the destruction and the bear being audible in the background but never seen, which sets up for a full reveal at the end. The problem is that it’s so rushed and not chaotic enough to be effectively tense or stressful. Instead of jumping straight into the action, why not begin slower and let us witness what normal life was like for Dani in her community? It wouldn’t even need to be a long scene, just enough to establish her relationship with her dad and neighbors so their deaths will feel as horrifying for the audience as they do for Dani. Blu Hunt’s limitations as an actress were most apparent in these early scenes as well. Everybody that she’s ever known is gone, her entire world has been flipped on its head, but she’s never shown breaking down in tears or displaying any signs of shock or depression, probably because she wasn’t convincing enough to pull it off.

The film picked up when the other characters were introduced, and I genuinely started to enjoy it. Maisie Williams and Anya Taylor Joy were both amazing. Even Blu Hunt’s acting was greatly improved once she had her co-stars to play off. I don’t know if Charlie Heaton’s Kentucky accent was accurate, but I like hearing him talk and he got the humble, kind-hearted spirit of Sam.

The only performance that fell flat was Henry Zaga as Roberto, not because of his acting but because the script gave him nothing to work with. I could count his lines on my fingers, or at least that’s how it felt. The two most defining aspects of Roberto’s character are his bromance with Sam and his witty, narcissistic personality, but the film deprives him of both those things, leaving him as a dull husk. There are three short scenes of Roberto and Sam talking, but they’re nowhere near as close as in the comics, and Illyana takes over the comedic relief role that would usually be reserved for him. (And the Illyana/Roberto make out scene was icky. I know it turned out to be an illusion, but still. Gross!)

I did like Alice Braga, even though her character shares no similarities to Cecilia Reyes. Honestly, the writers could have avoided some whitewashing controversy if they had just changed her name and made her an original creation. Regardless, she was a unique departure from typical X-men movie villains since she was not as cruel towards the kids as I expected. She was concerned for their safety and provided solid mentorship that Dani later used to save the day. Reyes didn’t want to euthanize Dani; she genuinely believed that it must be done to protect the world from danger. There’s a nice tragic element to her character being a mutant who is willingly helping to capture and enslave her own kind.

[Dipter]

This movie isn’t as horror oriented as the marketing presented it. And a lot of the spooky moments are squandered by Josh Boone’s generic directing style. For example, when Rahne is attacked in the shower by the priest, the standard camera movement and flat lighting make the scene unintentionally silly. I’m not saying Boone should have gone overboard and made the facility into a decrepit asylum with cobwebs and bats, but some dreary lighting, imaginative angles, and ominous editing could have gone a long way. Music is another big factor in making things scary, but unfortunately the score is forgettable.

There is still some effective horror imagery and fun homage moments. The charred corpse of Roberto’s girlfriend emerging from the pool was the closest the film came to being unnerving. I like that the faceless men limped slowly through the hallways like Romero zombies, grabbing the kids’ shoulders and lazily swiping at them. Or when the demon bear burst through the wall and ate Cecilia alive like a classic movie monster. Personally, I felt that the John Hughes style coming-of-age content was entertaining enough to make up for the lack of scares.

The bigger issue for me was that there was a lot of time dedicated to setting up each character’s emotional trauma, but no pay off. The exploration of Illyana’s past with human trafficking and how that childhood abuse caused her to close off her emotions and put up this harsh, bullying façade was well done. She torments and belittles Dani because she’s desperate to have power over some one like the monsters that had power over her as a child. An awesome redemption arc where Illyana breaks the cycle of abuse and becomes a better person could have sprung from that foundation.

The moment where Dani returns Lockheed and listens to Yana’s story was a good start, but afterwards their interactions are limited. Your left to assume that Yana is a friend now because she risks her life fighting the bear, but you don’t know when that shift happens. Sam and Roberto never get a chance to forgive themselves for hurting their loved ones and Rahne doesn’t get over her religious guilt. The whole movie would have benefited from an extra thirty minutes, and it could have made the final battle more poignant. This was originally intended as a trilogy, so maybe that character development would have been handled in the subsequent films?

Overall, I thought the movie was a lot of fun. With superhero media becoming so oversaturated in the past decade, I’ve got to applaud any project that attempts to go against the grain, even if the experiment produces a flawed result. It was pleasantly small-scale: no world-ending stakes or massive explosions, just six characters in one location bonding. And I must give them credit, the Dani/Rahne romance was well done and very sincere. I’ve always been a fan of that pairing, and to see it realized on the big screen was wonderful. They were smart to switch around the dynamic from the comics and make Rahne into the emotional support figure, since Maisie is the more capable actress. This is the first and maybe last time that I’ll get to see queer protagonists in a superhero blockbuster. Given their track record, I don’t have a lot of faith in the MCU to put a gay couple at the forefront of the franchise.

[BroHomo]

I saw it and I'd say its just above X3 and Wolverine Origins as the 3 worst X-movies to me

[WebLurker]

None of the nonsense you're espousing here is remotely true. The nature of the psi-bond in the New Mutants Comic Book between Dani and Rahne was that of an extremely close big/little sister or maybe a mother/daughter if you pushed it,as was shown in the 1985 New Mutants Special Edition #1. (Yes,I was buying the book back then and still have it.)

Dani could be extremely over protective of Rahne at times in the comic book,but it was never anything remotely approaching to being a couple or lovers. It was far,far stronger than that.

Well, the Maisie Williams quote is authentic, at least as far as the creative decision to have the characters be a couple in the movie.

All I can say is that what I posted is what trolling the web turned up. I will freely concede that, to the best of my knowledge, Chris Claremont has never been cited as saying that he intended the characters to have feelings or that he didn't and people read too much into it (unlike how he has gone on record that he wanted Rachel Summers and Kitty Pryde to fall in love, but wasn't allowed to do anything beyond subtext -- and he apparently did a lot of this kind of subtext in his X-Men stuff). Certainly if there was anything in the comics, it was gone in the end (remember in the 2003 revival, there's a joke r.e. Dani being hit on by a female barista and pointing out that nothing's going to happen since she's straight).

Still, as far as I can tell, Dani/Rahne was at the very least a fan idea well before the film was made, so the movie isn't exactly doing something without precedence. Make of that what you will.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Coming at it with some knowledge of the books:
The Dani-Rahne thing need not be continued if they just say "they were comforting each other, and experimenting, but they grew out of it." That may have terrible LGBT erasure optics but that's a path to take.

The movies are their own continuity, they don't have to do anything - which is why they are able to change their relationships to begin with. If they wanted to stay the same as the comics Dani and Rahne wouldn't have a relationship in the film.

[ClanAskani]

The challenge with making a movie aimed at teens like that was adding romance elements. If the focus is on Dani, then who's her love interest? Sam?

Josh Boone pitched New Mutants in 2014 right after Fault In Our Stars was released. Maisie was approached in 2015 and it was announced in 2016 that both she and Anya had signed on.

If Rahne or Illyana have to have a romance, which one makes the most sense? I suspect Illyana/Roberto was being set-up as more of the focus for the 2nd and 3rd movie and perhaps also a couple to add to that drama.

That likely made Rahne/Dani the only option to have the lead actress in a romance with the POV focus character. And there's some subtext there in the comics to justify it.

[c-lei]

The movies are their own continuity, they don't have to do anything - which is why they are able to change their relationships to begin with. If they wanted to stay the same as the comics Dani and Rahne wouldn't have a relationship in the film.

Then stop portraying them as having anything to do with the comics titles here and call them what they are---Cosplay Happenings.

Not to offend the Anime/Manga crowd-Their live action stuff do tend to resemble the series they are based on, especially the Final Fantasy offshoots.

[sunofdarkchild]

The first part of my rewrite of the film.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1369014...s-film-rewrite

[MyriVerse]

Trying to find any resemblance between the movie Doc Reyes e=and the one of the comics, I found none. Waste of a great comic character.

Eh. General appearance and powers. But I do agree that it wasted the character. The movie would have been a lot better, imo, if the main doctor/villain had just been Sinister. They could have even made her Ms. Sinister, if they wanted a female. There was no reason to butcher Cece like this.

Then stop portraying them as having anything to do with the comics titles here and call them what they are---Cosplay Happenings.

Not to offend the Anime/Manga crowd-Their live action stuff do tend to resemble the series they are based on, especially the Final Fantasy offshoots.

It's really the same thing with the Avengers movies. The characters i those movies have been severely altered and aren't very like the ones in the books, regardless of how much they're tried to mold the books to the movies. You want them to stop those, as well? Sorry, no thanks.