Superman's future: Film or HBO Max Show?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It should be a feature film but the right kind of feature film.

The goal should be to make a Superman movie without referring to the following stuff we've seen over and over again:
-- Lex Luthor and General Zod (seriously either Luthor or Zod have been villains of 6 out of 7 Superman movies). There needs to be at least two or three movies before we see either again (and fine with never seeing Zod again). Not a fan of the MCU Spider-Man movies but take a page from that and do a trilogy on under-represented and forgotten villains and build tension before another roll with the big villains.
-- No more origins (we've seen that way too many times).
-- Heat vision (no more scary silhouette of Superman with red-eyed dots).
-- Jokes about turning back time and so on.
-- Enough angst cbout why Superman can't have sex and so on...ixnay on the Christopher Reeve monk approach to superheroism.

I think it can be done. Make a movie centered around Superman as a character, not Superman the folk icon, not Superman the weird sorta-smart-but-actually-dumb philosophizing you see infect anything from Kill Bill to Mark Waid. Make Superman and Clark work as characters first and foremost.

[Starter Set]

No more origins

Sure can agree with that one.

Is there anyone on the planet who still doesn't know from where Superman came from and where he grew up lol?

Yeah, we can safely skip that part.

[Ra-El]

I voted feature film, but I would be okay with a high quality tv show, I'm really excited for Raised By Wolves, if HBO Max did a Superman show with the quality that Raised By Wolves seems to have I would be super happy with it.

In a movie, a few rules would have to be followed:

1- No origin story, everyone knows Superman origin.
2- No evil Superman of any kind, brainwashed or whatever.
3- No death of Superman type stories.
4- No elseworlds either, nothing like Red Son.
5- No messianic approach to Superman.
7- Tone down the naive farm boy stuff too.
8- No other superheroes, speacially not Batman.

They should just do a regular, entertaining Superman story.

[Flash Gordon]

HBO has become a joke to me. They care more about sex than quality, Looking back on Game of Thrones, that show was porn. I don't want to see Superman become the next game of thrones.

Superman belongs on film. Why does he need an HBO show when WB can make his movies. I can understand if some may prefer HBO if Disney was making Superman but WB are very good handling harder stories that we have already seen with many of his animated movies.

That's such a broad brush to paint with.

HBO has made the greatest shows of all time Sopranos, The Wire, Westworld, Perry Mason (which is on it's way up there). Sure, Game of Thrones had sex and nudity in it (it was a high fantasy show)- but that doesn't mean everything is like that.

Tbh I don't see HBO doing a straight up superhero joint, I'd rather them develop more interesting concepts (like a straight up adaptation of Tom De Haven's novel IT'S SUPERMAN!, or something modern and hard scifi). AMC would be perfect for a high quality Superman show though, or HBOMax.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

The problem with doing Superman in either TV or movies is that the Christopher Reeve movies cast such a long and large shadow that every film will be compared to them -- and every filmmaker seems compelled to reference them in one form or another.

Even Zack Snyder's Man of Steel, which I loved, just tells a lot of the same plot points from the first 2 Reeve Supermans -- albeit with a more grounded, serious tone.

Stuff from the Reeve movies has even been made part of the comics over the years -- like the crystal tech, "Kneel before Zod," etc.

Warners just has to do a serious (sorry, I don't want campy ****), but fun, action-adventure Superman movie that fully breaks away from referencing the Reeve movies, but I don't think there's any film director out there that knows Superman well enough to do that, so said film director just tries to modernize the Donner flicks. We need someone who is well-versed in Superman comics lore who doesn't think the character begins and ends with the Reeve movies.

Is there really anyone out there like that? Every time a film director professes to be a Superman fan, he really just means a Reeve-Donner fan. That's what's holding the character back.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The problem with doing Superman in either TV or movies is that the Christopher Reeve movies cast such a long and large shadow that every film will be compared to them -- and every filmmaker seems compelled to reference them in one form or another.

I actually think that might be less of an issue now than before. I'll add more below.

Is there really anyone out there like that? Every time a film director professes to be a Superman fan, he really just means a Reeve-Donner fan. That's what's holding the character back.

Reeve-Donner nostalgia has held back Superman movies...Bryan Singer's Superman Returns is a good example and as you point out while Snyder has drastically moved away from the Reeve films he's still in the same box in terms of overusing Luthor-Zod and f--king around with the origin and mining that for drama.

I actually think that won't be an issue the next time 'round. One of the reasons why the Reeve-Superman thing was so dominant was that for the longest time until the 2000s, the only superhero movies kids had was the Donner movie and the Batman movies from Burton and Schumacher. So Reeve's take on Superman became the introduction to the character and also the superhero genre for two decades of young people. So it was quite dominant and strong. That meant that WB had to keep appealing to Reeve-stalgia because it was the version of the character everybody was familiar with and knew well. That was the version everyone knew. Bryan Singer making Superman Returns in continuity to Superman I and Superman II wouldn't have been possible if there wasn't memories to conjure about that version of the character. However, the last 20 years changed that, you have Raimi's Spider-Man movies, the Fox X-Men movies, the MCU, Nolan's Batman movies, Patty Jenkins' Wonder Woman, ITSV. As such I don't think Reeve-Donner's Superman has this exalted reputation anymore. For most young kids, it would come off as fairly quaint and old fashioned next to the MCU stuff.

Whoever makes the next Superman movie has to basically introduce the character to an audience who has seen and digested all those movies I mentioned. That can be intimidating (but then again making any movie is) but it's also liberating in that you get a chance to redefine Superman.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Since Batman is getting both a movie and a spinoff tv show, maybe Supes will get that same oppurtunity?

Mostly I'd prefer Superman in Film because of budget reasons as well as I don't think he's someone I'm interested in spending that much time with. I liked him in Smallville but i was more interested in Ollie or Lex. I'm more of a flawed hero/antihero kinda guy and Clark ain't really my scene.

But im open to trying new things so maybe this new take cou li d be what I'm missing.

[Pinsir]

Snyder should be given the opportunity to direct MoS 2.

[Soubhagya]

I voted for film. Make it Superman. You don't need a cinematic universe where Superman is crossing over with Wonder Woman. Unless its for a purpose in story. You can do like All Star Superman. Batman and Robin were mentioned. But that's secondary.


Superman is one guy who can be one superhero for the whole world. Like Reeve, Nolan, Raimi, Burton. You can bring your niche characters over time. Super characters. Supergirl, Legion, Steel, etc. Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane can also expand and do their thing. Antiheroes like Lobo or villains like Luthor can work. Elseworlds like Calvin Ellis ala President Superman. Just like Batman there's potential to his line of characters.

Primarily by focusing on Superman you focus on what's important. Story, characters. Things which are necessary to make one movie work at a time. If its part of a roadmap. Well and good.


A case can be made that Superman works better on TV. Even though Donner films did a lot, the series fizzled out. You had the old George Reeve show, the groundbreaking Fleischer shorts. Smallville ran for ten seasons. Maybe he works best in a villain of the week format. Which in a way is like comics. Where the character found most success anyway.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

A case can be made that Superman works better on TV. Even though Donner films did a lot, the series fizzled out. You had the old George Reeve show, the groundbreaking Fleischer shorts. Smallville ran for ten seasons. Maybe he works best in a villain of the week format. Which in a way is like comics. Where the character found most success anyway.

The Fleischer shorts all played in theatres, and weren't made for TV. No way animation that good can be done on a TV budget.

[superduperman]

I don't know, they had Supergirl and Krypton on at the same time. And even if they have the same character, could a CW show really compete with an HBO show?

Superman never made a direct appearance on Krypton though. He was acknowledged as existing and it revolved around him but we never saw him. Same thing with Titans. He exists in that universe but has never made an appearance. Now, I could see HBO picking up where Krypton left off but I don't see them giving him a straight up adaptation with him in it.

[Soubhagya]

The Fleischer shorts all played in theatres, and weren't made for TV. No way animation that good can be done on a TV budget.

My point is Superman worked quite well in shorter formats. Made for TV or not, these were a collection of shorts with no overarching storyline. Any filmmaker would find Bronze Age/Silver Age Superman tough. He is the ultimate good guy who would hardly do anything wrong.

Just throw in a new villain for one week and see Superman win in an entertaining and possibly creative way. Not unlike older comics where each issue can act as a standalone.

I am not saying this is necessarily true. The first two feature length films were big succeses back in the day. But afterwards it has been a spotty record on the big screen. But on the small screen, the weirdest ideas seem to work. A romance between Lois and Clark. Ran for 4 seasons. A show with teenager Superman who never wore a costume. Ten seasons. George Reeves had 5 or 6 seasons back in the day. If you compare the two. Big screen and small, it seems like the character has done better on small screen.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I am not saying this is necessarily true. The first two feature length films were big succeses back in the day. But afterwards it has been a spotty record on the big screen.

Superman movies having successes at the start but not doing very well since then, doesn't mean it can't have success again or that it's impossible.

Take the MCU, Captain America had bad made-for-TV movies in the '90s, but that didn't mean the MCU just rolled over and let it slide. They took another roll with him. Fantastic Four have never had any movies worth seeing to their name and yet everyone wants to see what the MCU can do with them. The MCU didn't accept as a given that because something was done badly once or that the most recent movies were weak (like with Spider-Man before their movies) that it can't be done right.

I mean for all its flaws, Zack Snyder's Man of Steel showed that you can do Superman right in the big screen. There are obviously tremendous issues in those movies, the last half in particular. But whatever issues that movie has, it has nothing to do with Superman the character. The stuff that Snyder got right -- Perry White as a character, the Superman/Lois romance (which let's give him credit, Snyder is a Clois shipper), and also the basic aspects of Superman in flight and how he moves and so on. The fight scene with Zod while obviously poorly contextualized and overdetermined, is technically the first time that a fight scene between super-powered beings looked visceral. Snyder also got Superman to have a tricksy attitude in some scenes, like him sassing Swanwick at the end with the drones. It's just that Snyder's idiosyncracies in other parts overwhelmed the rest of the film and even moreso in BVS.

[Starter Set]

Snyder should be given the opportunity to direct MoS 2.

Haven't we suffered enough?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

HBO Max. I think Superman would benefit from long form where you can dive into the character. He’s complex but it’s subtle and movies struggle with it.