Characters and real world combat parallels

[Ra-El]

It means something against enemies in that power range who know how to fight.



Characters like Metallo should be problems because of this, in some continuities Corben's a veteran soldier. Mongol and Maxima are warriors.

YES!! Superman should fight exactly like Thanos does, nothing really flash, but really effective.

[achilles]

For the really high level power types then, there's obviously Wonder Woman. Superman does appear to know some stuff, though I doubt he practices much. Supergirl I don't know about in her current incarnation. Power Girl I already dealt with. I don't think the Marvel/Shazam family know much about fighting bar Black Adam. Lobo is the universe's best brawler, but he probably knows some sort of organized fighting. J'ohn...is probably good at something, but not overly good. Probably something from Mars that takes advantage of his powers. Captain Atom probably knows some military martial arts at least, and likely boxing too. Barda and Orion obviously know whatever New Gods know. Ditto Darkseid himself.

[hareluyafan1]

this may be a little niche but let's see. so lately I've been lowkey obsessed with fighting: watching some mma, looking into a bunch things about different traditional martial arts in a variety of cultures, stuff like that. so it got me thinking, if you were to pick a fighter or fighting style to sort of encapsulate characters at DC and Milestone (you know since they coming back), who or what would you pick for whom?

an easy one would be like, I could see Beast Boy using capoeira just due to his upbeat somewhat flamboyant personality and character. or like, after watching a few things about Bruce Lee, I honestly think he's the closest thing to if Cassandra Cain just walked off the page. Red Hood, I could see being a kickboxer with some wrestling techniques, while Dick Grayson is more Taekwondo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (just my little headcanon, I'm sure they know all of the martial arts because comics). stuff like that.

obviously I'm not an expert at this stuff, you don't have to be either, just thought it was a fun idea.

I apologise in advance for going off-topic but have you watched this channel?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfl...bjETdXiBfVzSPg

It sounds like you'd enjoy it. Granted it focuses on the movie/TV adaptations rather than the comics but still...

Anyway, interesting topic. I'll see if I can think of anything.

[j9ac9k]

I would think Batman has developed his own style based on all the styles he studied. Dick would have learned this, but uses a lot more acrobatics mixed in. Tim would be the closest to Batman in terms of style and Damian learned from the League but has incorporated what he sees as the best parts of Batman's style. Jason's tweaked the Batman style to be a lot more aggressive and uses more direct attacks.

The Creeper uses "rabid poodle" style of fighting.

[Agent Z]

I'm talking about heroes with high level powers. For most of the heroes you named are prerry much street level with added bonuses. Also I know starfire is a princess, but I don't recall them ever showcasing her fight prowess. She usually just throws star bolts. But then wonder girls who fight things way stronger than some random normal civilians is what I'm talking about.

You never mentioned power levels in your original post. You said Wonder Woman was the only superpowered DC character who knew how to fight.

Starfire has tied or held her own against Wonder Woman at least once and has beaten Donna in sparring matches.

[Robanker]

Aikido's mainly defensive right? Yeah, doesn't really fit.
I actually imagine Nightwing does Capoeira since it's like a dance and he's off his feet a lot.

Early Golden Age Batman and Robin only mentioned jiu-jitsu as their martial arts choice.



Interesting idea, Kung Fu Beast Boy

I also imagine Oracle Barbara as a sitting kung fu master

As with the entire Bat family, they basically kitbash their martial arts from many schools. Dick's likely got some akido in his toolset, if only because he knows he's not the best hand-to-hand combatant even in his own circle. He'd need to know what to do when he's on the backfoot.

[Lightning Rider]

This is a cool thread. I've boxed for several years and dabbled in other skillsets. I often think about what skillsets best use certain heroes, and I do think it's worth thinking about, because these heroes are regularly fighting people with similar or comparable power levels. All else being roughly equal, knowledge and skill will make the difference.

Boxing/kickboxing and wrestling work well for Superman, though I'd throw in Judo as well, as he seems to throw his opponents a lot.

One thing that strikes me is that certain disciplines would be better or less suited to characters or opponents who fly. Jiu Jitsu might not work against an opponent if they can will their body to move in any direction without the use of gravity for leverage. But for street-level characters who weigh less, it's probably essential. I can see Black Canary and Batman/the Robins using a lot of gi jiu-jitsu, since most criminals and even villains wear clothes.

I can see Batman also using a lot of Muay Thai strikes since he's so brutal and often fights in tight spaces like alleyways.

Since Dick is so acrobatic, I imagine he uses a lot of high-kicks and flourishes from Karate and Kung-Fu. Also a lot of parkour elements. Max Mercury seemed adept at that also.

I liked the HEMA shout-out for the Hawks, just too perfect. Along with Wonder Woman, they should be the most proficient in pre-modern armed combat. Aquaman should be up there as well. I feel like Hawkman and Aquaman would both be great wrestlers given their physicality, and so would Diana, as an ancient Greek.

One thing I always thing about with Flash, is that when he's fighting other speedsters, they always fight while running and there's a lot of chasing. It must be so hard to grab hold of your opponent, so strikes are probabl emphasized. Complex counter-punching and combinations seem appropriate. Feints are also important since it's hard to deccelerate.

[Lightning Rider]

One thing about Green Arrow, is that I don't really envision him getting into prolonged exchanges. He's a hunter and is often brutal and direct. Since he works best at long range anyway, I see him as much more stripped down and bare-bones whenever he does have to engage at close quarters. I think elements of Sambo and Okichitaw fit, since you compromise an opponent's balance or ground them before striking them with a fight-ending blow.

[achilles]

This is a cool thread. I've boxed for several years and dabbled in other skillsets. I often think about what skillsets best use certain heroes, and I do think it's worth thinking about, because these heroes are regularly fighting people with similar or comparable power levels. All else being roughly equal, knowledge and skill will make the difference.

Boxing/kickboxing and wrestling work well for Superman, though I'd throw in Judo as well, as he seems to throw his opponents a lot.

One thing that strikes me is that certain disciplines would be better or less suited to characters or opponents who fly. Jiu Jitsu might not work against an opponent if they can will their body to move in any direction without the use of gravity for leverage. But for street-level characters who weigh less, it's probably essential. I can see Black Canary and Batman/the Robins using a lot of gi jiu-jitsu, since most criminals and even villains wear clothes.

I can see Batman also using a lot of Muay Thai strikes since he's so brutal and often fights in tight spaces like alleyways.

Since Dick is so acrobatic, I imagine he uses a lot of high-kicks and flourishes from Karate and Kung-Fu. Also a lot of parkour elements. Max Mercury seemed adept at that also.

I liked the HEMA shout-out for the Hawks, just too perfect. Along with Wonder Woman, they should be the most proficient in pre-modern armed combat. Aquaman should be up there as well. I feel like Hawkman and Aquaman would both be great wrestlers given their physicality, and so would Diana, as an ancient Greek.

One thing I always thing about with Flash, is that when he's fighting other speedsters, they always fight while running and there's a lot of chasing. It must be so hard to grab hold of your opponent, so strikes are probabl emphasized. Complex counter-punching and combinations seem appropriate. Feints are also important since it's hard to deccelerate.

That's an excellent point, how do these characters who fly and move at superspeed fight? Or the very high level strength of the Kryptonians, Diana, Doomsday...and on?

Take Doomsday for example. How can he possibly beat Superman? It shouldn't matter how strong a character like Doomsday can punch, past a certain point, he just can't hit that hard, since he's braced on ground that should crumble to dust under the forces he'd be exerting to punch Superman. Basically, he wouldn't have anything firm to punch off, while Superman, who can fly, could use that power to brace and hit as hard as he physically can. Or Superman could take the fight to sand, mud, or the ocean to easily beat Doomsday, among other things. So tactics matter.

As for the grappling arts and flying, that occurred to me as well. So I thought about it and have decided that with some moves from judo for example might be made to work...but only if modified. Working a joint lock for example, you might have to brace against some other part of the uke to make it work midair. Though somehow headlocks seem to work midair in DC...but only when Power Girl is uke. Hint, PG, next time someone does that to you...fly down, straight down, suddenly. Or headbutt them.

[Midnight_v]

YES!! Superman should fight exactly like Thanos does, nothing really flash, but really effective.

I don't agree with this and what you're quoting.

Supes is a brawler, and maybe a high level street brawler... but he's NOT fight like Thanos just did. If he ever does its just wankery.

Because in the end efficacy doesn't matter. He's going eyebeam you or freeze you or out "POWER" you. He's figting much more likely to fight like the hulk than whipping out
some fancy physical moves.

He's going to be a great brawler and adept at fighting with his powers, a self-made style backed by his attributes, but he's not going to be ever doing what we'd expect Goko to be doing I should think.
Superman vs The Elite
Or Man of Steel world of tissue from DCUO is how he's really getting around.
He doesn't know how to fight with a "Martial Art" because he's never "NEEDED" to and moreover... Who would teach him? Human Martial arts would NOT work not in anyway that would be relative to calling it "Judo" for example.
Just... no.

Its why people like Wonder Woman, and Mogul can stand against him AT ALL ever I'd imagine. He's already stronger and faster and more durable than them at base so they need fighting ability PLUS weapons to deal with him.
....

I just have to think for a second about the logistics and ridiculous visiuals of two Krypotnians floating there with their dukes up "boxing" at each other.

I'm pretty sure Guy Gardner learned fighting by watching WWF (yes, before WWE...)

This actually is pretty cool because... well WWF fighitng styles would WORK if you had superpowers to facilitate the weight behind the movements.

[Lightning Rider]

That's an excellent point, how do these characters who fly and move at superspeed fight? Or the very high level strength of the Kryptonians, Diana, Doomsday...and on?

Take Doomsday for example. How can he possibly beat Superman? It shouldn't matter how strong a character like Doomsday can punch, past a certain point, he just can't hit that hard, since he's braced on ground that should crumble to dust under the forces he'd be exerting to punch Superman. Basically, he wouldn't have anything firm to punch off, while Superman, who can fly, could use that power to brace and hit as hard as he physically can. Or Superman could take the fight to sand, mud, or the ocean to easily beat Doomsday, among other things. So tactics matter.

As for the grappling arts and flying, that occurred to me as well. So I thought about it and have decided that with some moves from judo for example might be made to work...but only if modified. Working a joint lock for example, you might have to brace against some other part of the uke to make it work midair. Though somehow headlocks seem to work midair in DC...but only when Power Girl is uke. Hint, PG, next time someone does that to you...fly down, straight down, suddenly. Or headbutt them.

Great points-there would definitely have to be alternative ways to find leverage in those situations. It's funny, heroes almost never fly downward like that; it's almost implied that their body has to follow their head/torso. Then again, they descend feet-first, so clearly they could do it.

On Doomsday, I suppose he's just so heavy on the "mass" part of the force equation that it offsets his lack of ability to accelerate the way Superman could. Extremely dense particles.

[Lightning Rider]

I just have to think for a second about the logistics and ridiculous visiuals of two Krypotnians floating there with their dukes up "boxing" at each other.

But that already sort of happens - Kryptonians throw punches at each other. They may be in constant forward motion, but the mechanics won't be completely different once they're in range of each other. Sometimes they land/eat the punch, but sometimes they "side-step" the shot and counter in some way. And if both punch at the same time, the one who has the other hand up during the exchange will come out better than the one who doesn't. I don't think battle depictions have to become awkwardly technical to show hints of real-world combat applied.

Not to mention Superman has trained in fighting anyway, and I think a lot of fans appreciate slightly more elegance to his style than the Hulk.

[Ra-El]

I don't agree with this and what you're quoting.

Supes is a brawler, and maybe a high level street brawler... but he's NOT fight like Thanos just did. If he ever does its just wankery.

Because in the end efficacy doesn't matter. He's going eyebeam you or freeze you or out "POWER" you. He's figting much more likely to fight like the hulk than whipping out
some fancy physical moves.

He's going to be a great brawler and adept at fighting with his powers, a self-made style backed by his attributes, but he's not going to be ever doing what we'd expect Goko to be doing I should think.
Superman vs The Elite
Or Man of Steel world of tissue from DCUO is how he's really getting around.
He doesn't know how to fight with a "Martial Art" because he's never "NEEDED" to and moreover... Who would teach him? Human Martial arts would NOT work not in anyway that would be relative to calling it "Judo" for example.
Just... no.

Its why people like Wonder Woman, and Mogul can stand against him AT ALL ever I'd imagine. He's already stronger and faster and more durable than them at base so they need fighting ability PLUS weapons to deal with him.
....

I just have to think for a second about the logistics and ridiculous visiuals of two Krypotnians floating there with their dukes up "boxing" at each other.


This actually is pretty cool because... well WWF fighitng styles would WORK if you had superpowers to facilitate the weight behind the movements.

Mongul is, in theory, just as strong as Superman, currently, so is Wonder Woman. Superman should do everything he can to learn how to fight the best way possible. Yes he should not be doing kata or be a specialist or black belt, but he should have a basic training, simply because if he doesnt Zod would have killed him years ago, maybe not in the first time they fought and Zod wasn't acquainted with his powers, but eventually he would easily turn the tables on Superman.

As to how he would learn how to fight, well, if Jor-El was capable of sending the knowledge of 12 galaxies to Clark, why not put some Matrix style learning system? You know, one that Superman can just download into his head? Or just go back to that time he trained with Mongul or whatever, as long as when he goes against the greatest warrior from Krypton story he don't win just because he is figthing for the right reason.

[achilles]

Mongul is, in theory, just as strong as Superman, currently, so is Wonder Woman. Superman should do everything he can to learn how to fight the best way possible. Yes he should not be doing kata or be a specialist or black belt, but he should have a basic training, simply because if he doesnt Zod would have killed him years ago, maybe not in the first time they fought and Zod wasn't acquainted with his powers, but eventually he would easily turn the tables on Superman.

As to how he would learn how to fight, well, if Jor-El was capable of sending the knowledge of 12 galaxies to Clark, why not put some Matrix style learning system? You know, one that Superman can just download into his head? Or just go back to that time he trained with Mongul or whatever, as long as when he goes against the greatest warrior from Krypton story he don't win just because he is figthing for the right reason.

What Superman needs is a friendly Kryptonian who's a master of Kryptonian martial arts and military arts and is on Earth and willing to teach him and spar with him. Not a fan of Matrix style downloads of that sort of thing; makes it so that he didn't earn those skills, unlike say Batman or Diana. No, I'd rather he goes through learning like they did, even if it takes him a while to get very good.

[John Venus]

I'm not as knowledgeable about this as I would like to be but based on what I know:

Batman: Karate, Judo, Capioera, Jeet Kune Do, Aikido, Ninjutsu, Boxing, Taijiquan, Nothern Shaolin Kung Fu, Brazilian Ju-jitsu. I don't see Batman as a master of everything. He's a master of a handful of martial arts which forms his 'core' martial art leanings which he supplemented with a little bit of every other martial art he could find or learn about. A jack of all trades, master of none but better than a master of one. My impression of Batman's fighting style is heavily influenced by the DCAU and the 90's comics. I don't like him being unnecessarily brutal nor wasting too much energy taking out opponents. He moves like water, letting an aggressive opponent tire themselves out, while he effortlessly dodges their attacks then he turns their opponents own weight against them and takes them out with the minimum of effort. If Batman is truly no-kill guy then he takes them out non lethally only escalating force when the situation demands it. A true nonsense fighter but with a little dramatic flair (he is dressed like a bat after all). He knows many deadly moves but wishes he doesn't have to use them.

Nightwing: Mixed martial arts. Dick's a gymnast. That's his core and everything he studies is meant to supplement that. I don't see him as a master marital artist but he is still damn good one.

Barbara Gordon: I can see her having studied defensive martial arts like Wing-Chun and Taekwondo. I can see her leveling these up by training with Batman and other martial artists. Then she learns Arnis (escrima/stick fighting) from Dick Grayson.

Black Canary: Boxing, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Kick boxing, Jujtizu, Savate. Lots of high kicks and power behind them. She hits hard and fast, lots of kicking and she can break bones with her hits but is also a very disciplined and controlled fighter. Like Batman, she isn't a master of a dozen martial, she is a master of 2-3 which she supplements with what she picked up from other marital arts here and there. My ideal Canary doesn't use weapons, her fists and legs are enough but if need be, she is adept with nunchuks, stick fighting and even knife fighting. Her weakness would be that she lacks endurance and stamina for long drawn out fights so she takes out her opponents quickly.

Huntress/Helena Bertinelli: Krav Maga. Going by the pre-Nu 52 version where she was a mob boss's daughter. I can't see her having the patients to do tai-chi or any thing that requires patience and elegance. I chose Krav Maga mostly by reputation. I feel like Helena would choose the art which allows her to dispel maximum amount of pain. She is adept with bo staff, studied spear fighting and the Silat (Indonesian martial arts style). She lacks the finesse and variety of techniques that Canary possesses but she has a higher pain tolerance and stamina. She is more inclined to cheat and fight dirty than Canary (who would often hold back her Canary cry out of respect for her opponents).