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  1. #481
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    @Jack The Tripper BTW I love how you claimed you would criticize Feige but did none of that in the comments

    As for Shazam while it was lower budget it wasn’t lower budget. It was 100 million which by comparison to Captain Marvel was 150 thousand and SM FFH being 180 million. But I wouldn’t call it a risk because it was marketed as a fun kiddy action flick and while there certainly were surprising and touching moments i certainly wouldn’t call it a risk. Your argument for a risk is hey it’s a lesser known property so that means it’s a huge risk. Like if these movies were original properties and not marvel would you still say they were risks?

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by OblivionX33 View Post
    Isn't this a basic ask for story telling? plot progression and character development are key, and that includes both regression or progression within a narrative. Something that the MCU has did a pretty darn good job of in comparsion to the FOX films over the course of their films minus the bumps in the road. The only bright spots in terms of this topic will always boil down to Magento and Professor X or Wolverine but most of that was retreads with no real pay off. Aside from Logan getting to rest after carrying to the load for the franchise, for the past fifteen years. lol
    You focus on a handful of characters. In First Class you had the 6 or 7 or so X Men and then Shaw and his lackies. Henchmen don’t typically get backstories. Hell we still don’t the backstory of Fury and Marvel is terrible at juggling characters especially with villains. Only Stark and Rogers got real development


    Ant-man is Ant-man what motives does he usually have for joining in the Civil War? comics or otherwise?
    So you excuse Ant Man just because? Why don’t you apply that to Fox X Men? And don’t compare Paul Rudd to Scott Lang. In the comics Scott Lang was an actually decent human being unlike Rudd who does literally everything wrong and selfish throughout these movies. He helps captain america break the law despite promising. Cassie he wouldn’t any more and then exposed Hank as still out there and still having his particles leading to him going on the run. Yeah real hero there. Imagine me using that excuse for any other movie. Why did Batman fight Superman in BvS? Because Batman is Batman. Why did Magneto betray Xavier? Because Magneto is Magneto. That isn’t how you review a film unbiased

    In the comics i’m not sure if he even picked a side during civil war but if he did it would’ve been about the registration act not because captain america picked me up (and again why does falcon blindly trust him?)

    Vision motives were simple, Wanda now could that have been explained more brilliantly? sure. But his reasonings were pretty clear to me the minute he got put through the floor. I personally think Wanda should have been more of a target in that movie besides Tony/Steve and Zemos plan to break up the team. Given who was responsible for the death of thousands/millions.
    So Vis wants to detain Bucky Barnes... because of Scarlet Witch? Like that whole scene was stupid to begin with. I would say these characters motivations were paper thin but that’d be generous. Maybe the worlds thinnest cut swiss cheese is more appropriate. And again why does wanda help Bucky she doesn’t know this man for all she knows Steve has gone off the deep end. And if you’re going to tell me a girl who knew Cap for a few months trust him more over Stark who was his ‘friend’ for years then you’ve lost me
    Last edited by Dboi2001; 09-05-2020 at 03:19 PM.

  3. #483
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    One thing's for sure is people will complain their fav is ooc/ doesn't get to do anything/isn't as powerful as they should be so I don't think it really matters what Feige does lol

  4. #484
    Spectacular Member OblivionX33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post


    So you excuse Ant Man just because? Why don’t you apply that to Fox X Men? And don’t compare Paul Rudd to Scott Lang.
    Excusing? we know who these characters are by now given the solo movies and we know what motives Ant-Man. Also Scott lang isn't real and also Scott lang a decent human being? Rudd? selfish and wrong? so Lang is never selfish or wrong? stop. He clearly loves his daughter and luckily enough. We didn't see the typical bs in lesser films with Langs situationbeing divorced and interacting with his former wifes new husband. There's depth beyond the selfish thievery and antics. But you just want to bash anything and everything MCU.

    Anyway it's clear continuing this pointless conversation is just going to lead into another rigmarole. So i'm gonna bounce.

    Rather you wait for the movies or not

    or like the movies or not but not before even seeing them...that's insanity to me.

    If you are a X-men fan you'd give them a chance before prejudging anything, shoot you don't even need to be fan. Otherwise this is nothing but a wet diaper event.

    Either you watch the coming films or you don't. Otherwise it's best to stop taking about them so much when it's clear that you have a huge negative bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossfist View Post
    One thing's for sure is people will complain their fav is ooc/ doesn't get to do anything/isn't as powerful as they should be so I don't think it really matters what Feige does lol
    Especially if their favorite is super OP...lol

    But i think with Thanos, Marvel and them showing off how the infinity stones work at scale within the films. Along with Doctor Stranges unexplored powers, plus Wandas coming mental break. We'll see an up tick in terms of power level allowance.
    Last edited by OblivionX33; 09-05-2020 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by OblivionX33 View Post
    Excusing? we know who these characters are by now given the solo movies and we know what motives Ant-Man. Also Scott lang isn't real and also Scott lang a decent human being? Rudd? selfish and wrong? so Lang is never selfish or wrong? stop. He clearly loves his daughter and luckily enough. We didn't see the typical bs in lesser films with Langs situationbeing divorced and interacting with his former wifes new husband. There's depth beyond the selfish thievery and antics. But you just want to bash anything and everything MCU.

    Anyway it's clear continuing this pointless conversation is just going to lead into another rigmarole. So i'm gonna bounce.

    Rather you wait for the movies or not

    or like the movies or not but not before even seeing them...that's insanity to me.

    If you are a X-men fan you'd give them a chance before prejudging anything, shoot you don't even need to be fan. Otherwise this is nothing but a wet diaper event.

    Either you watch the coming films or you don't. Otherwise it's best to stop taking about them so much when it's clear that you have a huge negative bias.
    First off I didn’t call Ant Man scott lang because paul rudd played himself throughout the movies and acted nothing like scott from the comics. Regardless no Scott Lang in the mcu is a selfish idiot and does everything wrong with no thought about other. So what he loves his daughter clearly not enough to actually reform for her after promising twice. Plenty of criminals love their daughters doesn’t make them saints. Lang has no depth and joins civil war for no reason

    I will give them a chance but that doesn’t mean i don’t have my expectations and my expectations are something along the mcu spider man movies where people will praise them regardless of changes or a thin plot and characters

  6. #486
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    The casting with FOX was horrible. So I think & hope anyone can do better than that.

  7. #487

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    nearly all mutant villains motives are “hate humans, mutants supreme”
    That doesn’t answer my question. Yet it does work well with my point.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    nearly all mutant villains motives are “hate humans, mutants supreme”
    But why? We know all the details about why Magneto feels like that, can't say the same for Emma Frost. She's mostly there to look pretty and giving stupid speeches to the CIA when she could escape at any time in their custody. Even Apocalypse motives weren't that deep.

  9. #489
    Mighty Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    And marvel turned Loki to an anti hero. Thanos was 10 years of development. Pierce? Who was that guy? Ego was mediocre. Killmonger’s message was half baked. Zemo was awful and Ghost was a forgettable mook. Hela was cool though but she just hammed it up. As for X Men how about Trask? Or Mystique? How about Shaw and the Hellfire club? Even Apocalypse was better than most mcu villains
    - X-Men Have yet to come up with a villain as strong as killmomger.
    - Mystique was a great hero but a terrible villain. If Loki don’t count, neither does mystique.
    - Apocalypse? Really?
    - Shaw was... fine I Guess. Emma was terrible.
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    nearly all mutant villains motives are “hate humans, mutants supreme”
    You’re making our point
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  11. #491
    Spectacular Member OblivionX33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    That doesn’t answer my question. Yet it does work well with my point.
    right? like wat

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    And marvel turned Loki to an anti hero.
    So?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Thanos was 10 years of development.
    More like ten years of "Thanos is coming." He really didn't get a lot of characterization until Infinity War.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Pierce? Who was that guy?
    The guy in Winter Solider played by Robert Redford?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Ego was mediocre.
    How so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Killmonger’s message was half baked.
    Don't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Zemo was awful and Ghost was a forgettable mook.
    Liked the variety in motivations they brought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Hela was cool though but she just hammed it up.
    Which was what the movie needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    As for X Men how about Trask?
    I thought Trask was well-acted, but he wasn't as deep a character as some of the other ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Or Mystique?
    Mystique was one of the weakest villains in the series (not the actress's fault). It wasn't until the prequels that she was given better development and she was made into a hero in those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    How about Shaw and the Hellfire club?
    Added Shaw to the list when I remembered him. Like Hela, he's a hammy character, not a deep one. (The Hellfire Club members were one-note and not very memorable, so not the series' finest.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Even Apocalypse was better than most mcu villains
    Nope, absolutely not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    They used Stryker in four movies and his father in an additional movie and he's still a really forgettable character.
    I was only thinking of Brian Cox's take in X2. Origins: Wolverine had a flatly-written character with an actor making the most of it and the guy in the First Class movies wasn't even trying.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    So?
    So Loki is a moot point. He hasn’t been a villain since avengers and even then he was made to be a misguided hero

    More like ten years of "Thanos is coming." He really didn't get a lot of characterization until Infinity War.
    When I say development I mean internal story development not character development. If I could take ten years to make a character I’m sure I’d come up with something decent

    The guy in Winter Solider played by Robert Redford?
    Thanks for reminding of the boring old white guy who got outshined by his henchman

    How so?
    The first half was interesting but at the end he just dissolved into a cgi monstrosity with his care and love for Quill just being a front with no real emotion behind the battle. Instead Gunn used it to imitate Pixels

    Don't see it.
    Well for one he talks about racism and oppression but we never see any of it. The movie just assumes you know enough about American politics to understand this. The two foremost rules of movies is show don’t tell and don’t assume your audience. Black Panther fails at both. Then at the end he decides he wants to conquer the world because the movie needs to raise the stakes for the 3rd act as if having a sociopath ruling the single most technologically advanced nation wasn’t enough. Like did it really matter if Agent Ross destroyed those gun ships? Couldn’t TChalla just order them not to attack when he took his thrown back?

    Liked the variety in motivations they brought.
    Variety? You mean the same variety Wanda and Pietro had? Ghost was barely even the villain it was Lawrence fishburn. Like Ghost was the poor man’s winter soldier.

    Which was what the movie needed.
    No Thor did not need to be turned into a ham fest. Making something funny or campy doesn’t make it good. GotG can be hammy because it was a new property but what Waititi did was no better than what Ryan Johnson did in last Jedi and we see the russos backtracking on everything he did. Thor loses his eye-he gets a new eye, he doesn’t need his hammer-he gets a new one, Thor was a goofball-Thor is serious now.

    I thought Trask was well-acted, but he wasn't as deep a character as some of the other ones.
    Deeper than most mcu villains

    Mystique was one of the weakest villains in the series (not the actress's fault). It wasn't until the prequels that she was given better development and she was made into a hero in those.
    Dude people hated Jennifer Lawerence as Mystique and being a hero. Romjin as Mystique was creepy, cold and at times seductive. Lawerence became less and less of that was the series sent on. Just because a villain doesn’t have a cliche tragic backstory doesn’t make them good. Sometimes one dimensional villains can be amazing. Palpatine and Joker are perfect examples of these Why are they evil? No real reason. Making Mystique a reluctant hero just worked less and less as the series went on. In first class we see Erik imprinting on her and how she and Charles always disagreed eventually leading to her leaving Charles to join Erik, then in DoFP she was focused on saving mutants and only stopped Erik so he wouldn’t use the sentinels and proving the public’s fears (as if lifting the entire stadium wasn’t enough) then we get Apocalypse where she constantly whines about being idolized while playing hero and then in Dark Phoenix she is basically the leader of the x men until she is killed off

    Added Shaw to the list when I remembered him. Like Hela, he's a hammy character, not a deep one. (The Hellfire Club members were one-note and not very memorable, so not the series' finest.)
    Again that is like me expecting the Hydra soldiers to have deep backstories. Shaw was proto magneto and symbolic that Erik would become his greatest enemy

    Nope, absolutely not.[/QUOTE]

    Yes absolutely he was better than blank slates like Whiplash or the Dark Elf. Sure his design could’ve been better but Oscar Isaac was fantastic

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    Fox turned Mystique to an anti-hero.

    Trask? Who was that guy?

    Apocalypse was mediocre.

    Shaw was cool, but he just hammed it up.

    The Hellfire Club were just forgettable mooks.
    Fox turned Mystique into full-blown hero, leader of the X-Men, whom people like Storm and Jean idolise, who can give Charles morality lessons, and had become the mutant messiah worldwide by the time of Apocalypse.

  15. #495
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    Fox turned Mystique into full-blown hero, leader of the X-Men, whom people like Storm and Jean idolise, who can give Charles morality lessons, and had become the mutant messiah worldwide by the time of Apocalypse.
    I know you said leader already but I got to double down on that point .She was the undisputed field leader of the X-men. She had probably the best tactical leadership scene/moment in the whole franchise the space scene. One of most frustrating things in whole franchise it wasn't that they didn't know how to write Cyclops as a good character and make him look good. It was Mystique was literally hogging his spot and meaning to the X-world in the second set of movies. They wrote a great Cyclops part for Mystique.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 09-06-2020 at 12:51 AM.

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